Tata Advanced Systems tying up with Bell Helicopter to compete for $2-billion naval chopper contract

[ravinderpalrulez]

Tata Advanced Systems tying up with Bell Helicopter to compete for $2-billion naval chopper contract.
Under the route being followed to get the choppers, Indian companies will lead the procurement bids with a foreign company as a technology partner. TASL will be the lead company in partnership with Bell Helicopter, based in Fort Worth, Texas.
Competition for the new choppers is expected to play out between the Bell 429 and the Airbus AS565, one of which will be selected on technical and commercial grounds.

"The TASL tie-up with Bell Helicopter is likely to be announced formally soon. It will make the competition more or less a direct fight between Mahindra and Tata," people involved in the developments told ET. The Indian Navy is looking for a modern chopper to replace its ageing Chetak helicopters.

While the initial requirement is for 100 helicopters, the number may go up as the navy inducts newer platforms and increases the size of its fleet.

TASL is the leading military aviation player in India and has tied up for or is producing major systems for global giants including Sikorsky, Airbus, Lockheed Martin and Boeing. Earlier this month, Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar inaugurated a Boeing-Tata venture for producing the fuselage of AH 64 Apache attack helicopters in India. The joint venture was described by Parrikar as the largest foreign investment project in India in the defence sector.
Source- economictimes

 

[Water Car Engineer]

The way things are going, the private firms will take over this sector sooner than later. TATAs are on a serious roll.

If airbus wins the helicopter bid, Mahindra will make a assembly plant. So we're bound to see another aerospace assembly plant.

Bells wins, TATA gets the plant.
Airbus wins, Mahindra gets the plant.

Either way, we're going to see the first private firm integrator of helicopters. Reliance will join them quickly.

I am astonished at the audacity of the private sector. Imagine if they had opened the sector 20 years ago?

 

[sudhir007]

why the price is so high we are manufacturing ka-226t 200 pcs in $1billion

 

[MKC]

Where is Reliance in this project?

 

[zebra7]

Where is Reliance in this project?

Gone with Piplav for Kar to Duniya Muthi Mein.

why the price is so high we are manufacturing ka-226t 200 pcs in $1billion

Because it is a utility chopper.

 

[MKC]

Because it is a utility chopper.

Ka-226T also is an utility chopper.
Reason for high cost may be Russian & European origin.
Also it's naval utility helicopter.

 

[Ankit Kumar]

why the price is so high we are manufacturing ka-226t 200 pcs in $1billion

Naval Light Utility helicopter. They will have ASW, ASuW and assault capability.


On the topic, had Augusta Westland not been black listed , we would have had Super Lynx here. Probably the better of the three.

 

[Abingdonboy]

why the price is so high we are manufacturing ka-226t 200 pcs in $1billion

Has that deal actually been signed? Until then talk about costs are pure speculation and With each passing day the chances of that deal being signed look else and less likely.


Furthermore the helos in question here are naval utility helicopters that will have more advanced features than the LUH of the IAF had IA.

 

[sudhir007]

But the price is too high we are paying 200 bird for $1 bollion for ka226 and $2 billion for 100 chopper WOW.

Can't we use ka226 for naval utilities role or wait for LUH

 

[Ankit Kumar]

But the price is too high we are paying 200 bird for $1 bollion for ka226 and $2 billion for 100 chopper WOW.

Can't we use ka226 for naval utilities role or wait for LUH

The Naval Light Utility helicopter is not the naval version of Airforce / Army light utility helicopter.

The NLUH is more of a Naval Dhruv, better in many technical aspects for sea operations .

First us itself the challenges of operating a helicopter in salty atmosphere, causing much greater erosion. Then there are ASuW, ASW, Heavy Machine Guns and Rockets , along with SAR, etc all packed in one. Imagine the sensors and weapons. Much of the cost is of that.

I will try to post the older RFI for NLUH and first RFI for LUH given almost a decade back. Going through both of them will give you the difference which cause the difference in cost.

@PARIKRAMA and @Water Car Engineer , try posting the RFI, if possible

Use of mobile on 2G limits a lot.

 

[Agent_47]

The Naval Light Utility helicopter is not the naval version of Airforce / Army light utility helicopter.

The NLUH is more of a Naval Dhruv, better in many technical aspects for sea operations .

First us itself the challenges of operating a helicopter in salty atmosphere, causing much greater erosion. Then there are ASuW, ASW, Heavy Machine Guns and Rockets , along with SAR, etc all packed in one. Imagine the sensors and weapons. Much of the cost is of that.

I will try to post the older RFI for NLUH and first RFI for LUH given almost a decade back. Going through both of them will give you the difference which cause the difference in cost.

@PARIKRAMA and @Water Car Engineer , try posting the RFI, if possible

Use of mobile on 2G limits a lot.

Also,Navy requirement is 1 tonne heavier than the IA/IAF version.

The way things are going, the private firms will take over this sector sooner than later. TATAs are on a serious roll.

If airbus wins the helicopter bid, Mahindra will make a assembly plant. So we're bound to see another aerospace assembly plant.

Bells wins, TATA gets the plant.
Airbus wins, Mahindra gets the plant.

Either way, we're going to see the first private firm integrator of helicopters. Reliance will join them quickly.

I am astonished at the audacity of the private sector. Imagine if they had opened the sector 20 years ago?

You missed something. There is a requirement for 100+ navel medium multi role helicopter, Considering S-70B is already selected for 16 numbers this is a done deal. TATA have JV with Sikorsky. Plus competition NH90 Finmeccanica in it.

I don't see chance for Bell considering airbus dolphin is proven,customizable and engine commonality with other helicopters.

That means, Two private helicopter production lines.

• Mahindra - Airbus Dolphin
• TATA - Sikorsky S-70B

 

[Ankit Kumar]

Also,Navy requirement is 1 tonne heavier than the IA/IAF version.


You missed something. There is a requirement for 100+ navel medium multi role helicopter, Considering S-70B is already selected for 16 numbers this is a done deal. TATA have JV with Sikorsky.

I don't see chance for Bell considering airbus dolphin is proven,customizable and engine commonality with other helicopters/

That means, Two private helicopter production lines.

• Mahindra - Airbus Dolphin
• TATA - Sikorsky S-70B

The naval medium multirole sector is quite open. And EC725 here is a serious contender.

 

[Agent_47]

The naval medium multirole sector is quite open. And EC725 here is a serious contender.

I am not sure EC725 is one. Primary why should IN go and and another chopper when S-70B is good enough and supply chain will already exist ?
Secondly EC725 is around 1.5-2 tonne heavier than S-70B.(Possible disqualification, bigger = hard to maintain, pricey)

 

[Ankit Kumar]

I am not sure EC725 is one. Primary why should IN go and and another chopper when S-70B is good enough and supply chain will already exist ?
Secondly EC725 is around 1.5-2 tonne heavier than S-70B.(Possible disqualification, bigger = hard to maintain, pricey)

The expected RFI for 123 NMRHs stated that the helicopters should be in class of 9-12 ton weight and should be capable of keeping their performance even if 10% weight is added during its lifetime.

Further in a similar contract to supply 14 Shore based helicopters to Coast Guard, EC did beat Sirkosky on lower costs.

So disqualification ,more cost and more maintenance are not arguments here. One thing which should be looked here is that EC725 actually replaces Sea Kings Capability when it carries more than 25 Men compared to 8-11 men on S70 platform whIle also carrying other sensors.

http://www.defencenow.com/news/215/india-to-procure-naval-multi-role-helicopters.html

Further S70 brings commonality with existing 24 helicopters ( if its inked ), while EC725 brings more capability , so I am fine with both.

 

[Agent_47]

The expected RFI for 123 NMRHs stated that the helicopters should be in class of 9-12 ton weight and should be capable of keeping their performance even if 10% weight is added during its lifetime.

What do you mean by expected RFI ? don't tell me some desi jouro.

Further in a similar contract to supply 14 Shore based helicopters to Coast Guard, EC did beat Sirkosky on lower costs.

It is even hilarious to even think CG can sustain operating this sized helo without navy commonality. I rather believe less corrupt IN.

So disqualification ,more cost and more maintenance are not arguments here. One thing which should be looked here is that EC725 actually replaces Sea Kings Capability when it carries more than 25 Men compared to 8-11 men on S70 platform whIle also carrying other sensors.

As far as i understand there is a separate requirement for 12 tonne + heli for around 24 numbers. And HAL offered 12.5 tonne new helicopter but couldn't find foreign partner at that time (back in 2010).

Also i don't find any navy going for 10+ tonne helo in such a large number compared to heavier. Look at japanese navy heli structure Seahawk is the dominate one. It is the perfect size.

I find it hard to believe the argument that a mass produced medium US heli as pricey compared to a less produced European heavier heli.

Turkey just ordered 109 S-70 for $3.5 billion with full production line,ToT and MRO. They got it cheap because they already have a supply chain. i am expecting a slimier deal. Too long waiting for the initial deal to clear.

Further S70 brings commonality with existing 24 helicopters ( if its inked ), while EC725 brings more capability , so I am fine with both.

I am all in for commonality, that is how you plan for long term. Which in turn facilitates faster decision.

@Rikbo @Penguin