TAPI project likely to be launched in two months

[kaku1]

We don't expect officials on public forums brother. You were participating in discussion so I wonder if you searched a bit about your country involvement.

If I tell you truth, its not going to happen.

 

[Daneshmand]

Of course, after our bureaucrats and asif Ali zardari, its you who knows it but even you.. until today, kept it close to your heart.
Now all i can suggest is to go public with your low offer... and throw Turkmenistan out of business !!

We do not need to do it. We are not the ones who is suffering.

 

[slapshot]

That belt was put there for a reason. It was put there through an understanding between British empire (nowadays Western interests) and Russian empire (nowadays Russian state) in order to keep India (nowadays Pakistan) separate from Russian territory (nowadays Russian sphere of influence). It is supposed to be a no mans zone between two sphere of influences in order to keep peace between two super powers.

I see! Well now we neither have soviet union nor British empire so maybe we should do something to get which have a strategic value to us. This will allow us secure access to entire central Asia.

 

[Daneshmand]

Well our planners only plan how to fill their pockets.




CNG is just an example, we started producing electricity from gas, because of electricity shortages and higher rates, industries started generating electricity for their plants from gas. In 2000s we also say economic and industrial growth which raised consumption in commercial sector. Situation became worse when exploration stopped because of terrorism. Point was that need of importing gas was not felt earlier.



It's not as simple as you have stated, We need energy to run Industry whose output is export to US & Allies. If we go ahead on IP than we will simply loose our customers, so what's purpose of getting gas to run industry which will be closed because of lack of customers?



Yes - Bhasha dam's matter is more to do with Indian lobby, which again have leverage of it's economy and 1.2 billion market and she is also world's largest arms customer. Yes our diplomacy scuks but India also have advantages.


Yes - Pakistan will continue to suffer, but going ahead on IP without node or west will be worst, so there is no chance that Pakistan will import gas from Iran unless negotiation between Iran & P5+1 succeeded, that's reality, no matter what kind of statements officials give.

It is sad to see that a nation has to suffer energy shortage so that a few could enrich themselves. After all energy is so basic to human activities.

Lack of exploration is rather an excuse. Pakistan did an extensive exploration with the help of Italians searching for gas in the Pakistani EEZ of Indian ocean. Nothing was found. Beside with population of Pakistan reaching 360 million by the middle of this century, you will need to import gas and oil anyways even if extensive explorations did find something in future. These are realities that can not be changed.

Turkey exports much more to West than Pakistan. Yet they got a waiver for their gas imports from Iran and are working to get another waiver for increasing imports from both Iran and Russia. It shows what can be done when a government is serious about something.

I see! Well now we neither have soviet union nor British empire so maybe we should do something to get which have a strategic value to us. This will allow us secure access to entire central Asia.

No, you cant. As can be seen even on this thread, you can not even build a pipeline without the permission of your western "allies", let alone taking over a territory put there by West for a reason. If ever you do, then West has other cards up its sleeve. For example, the Durand agreement which is as per international law the same as the lease of HongKong by British empire (in legal jargon it is called a precedent). You do not want to see West taking the side of Afghanistan in an international court on the issue of Durand, do you? Because then sanctions and what not will be applied to you.

Beside Western powers, Russia also will be against it. After all, Pakistan did great damage to Russia during the 1980's and Russians have not forgotten that and Russia will never agree to give such a strategic prize to Pakistan. And then you have Afghan nationalism on your hand. Even during the rule of Taliban when Pakistan was among the only three countries recognizing them, the Pakistani government requested Taliban to nullify the Durand agreement. Taliban refused outright. What makes you think the other Afghans who have never been even allied with Pakistan, would agree to such a thing. If anything, they are still raising the issue of Durand on every international forum but no one is listening to them, because there is no interest involved. Once you do such a thing as going after the interests of big powers, they will be all ears to Afghans.

 

[Sugarcane]

It is sad to see that a nation has to suffer energy shortage so that a few could enrich themselves. After all energy is so basic to human activities.

Lack of exploration is rather an excuse. Pakistan did an extensive exploration with the help of Italians searching for gas in the Pakistani EEZ of Indian ocean. Nothing was found. Beside with population of Pakistan reaching 360 million by the middle of this century, you will need to import gas and oil anyways even if extensive explorations did find something in future. These are realities that can not be changed.

Where i said that we will not need to import oil & gas? And i was referring to exploration in Baluchistan province.

Turkey exports much more to West than Pakistan. Yet they got a waiver for their gas imports from Iran and are working to get another waiver for increasing imports from both Iran and Russia. It shows what can be done when a government is serious about something.

Dude - try to understand the difference between getting waiver on existing supplies and asking for permission to start new supply line. The straight answer for such request was given that either go for LNG & TAPI or take risk of sanctions. So, LNG despite being expensive is better option than sanction prone IP.

 

[OTTOMAN]

Beside with population of Pakistan reaching 360 million by the middle of this century, you will need to import gas and oil anyways even if extensive explorations did find something in future. These are realities that can not be changed.

Population didn't reached 360 million overnight!
Some day we'll investigate... why gas reservoir dropped during the rule of Asif Ali Zardari and why so many power breakdowns occured.
Some patriot Pakistani need to uncover the (un)holy tribe.

 

[Daneshmand]

Where i said that we will not need to import oil & gas? And i was referring to exploration in Baluchistan province.



Dude - try to understand the difference between getting waiver on existing supplies and asking for permission to start new supply line. The straight answer for such request was given that either go for LNG & TAPI or take risk of sanctions. So, LNG despite being expensive is better option than sanction prone IP.

I did not say that you did. I was just explaining the overall situation.

It all depends on diplomacy. West could not sanction Pakistan for the simple reason that Pakistan is their only route to Afghanistan where they were stuck. Build this pipeline or NOT, once Western forces leave Afghanistan, sanctions will be applied on Pakistan. Rest assured of this.

Population didn't reached 360 million overnight!
Some day we'll investigate... why gas reservoir dropped during the rule of Asif Ali Zardari and why so many power breakdowns occured.
Some patriot Pakistani need to uncover the (un)holy tribe.

Twisted minds are seldom the cause of progress.

 

[OTTOMAN]

Twisted minds are seldom the cause of progress.

By the grace of Allah almighty....
I have done many development projects in Pakistan, including pilot projects of some key applications, which than went on to sale, all over the world.
I have represented Pakistan's name in so many countries, with honor... that is unmatchable in history of Pakistan....alhamdullilah.
I'm all good with my concious.... however, my critics have nothing to show !!!

 

[Sugarcane]

It all depends on diplomacy. West could not sanction Pakistan for the simple reason that Pakistan is their only route to Afghanistan where they were stuck. Build this pipeline or NOT, once Western forces leave Afghanistan, sanctions will be applied on Pakistan. Rest assured of this.

If it's all about diplomacy than Pakistan's diplomacy is better than Iran, because we got our sanctions removed despite having nukes while Iran's diplomacy failed to in getting sanctions removed in all these years despite official stand that you are perusing civil nuclear program?

When we blocked NATO route in protest and tried to use this leverage, NATO started using Iranian route for supplies (except weapon) under cover of India-Afghan trade, i don't think your govt. is that much naive that they didn't knew.

Two years ago there were chances of sanctions, but geopolitical environment has been changed totally in last two years. Now the chance of sanctions are at lowest level. But yes anything can happen in future, we are talking about present and ground realities. Any non-Nationalistic person can easily see that risks associated with IP outweigh the benefits it will bring, but yes if Iran's nuclear talks succeed than this pipeline will be constructed within months but until than it's pipe dream for Pakistanis.

 

[Daneshmand]

If it's all about diplomacy than Pakistan's diplomacy is better than Iran, because we got our sanctions removed despite having nukes while Iran's diplomacy failed to in getting sanctions removed in all these years despite official stand that you are perusing civil nuclear program?

When we blocked NATO route in protest and tried to use this leverage, NATO started using Iranian route for supplies (except weapon) under cover of India-Afghan trade, i don't think your govt. is that much naive that they didn't knew.

Two years ago there were chances of sanctions, but geopolitical environment has been changed totally in last two years. Now the chance of sanctions are at lowest level. But yes anything can happen in future, we are talking about present and ground realities. Any non-Nationalistic person can easily see that risks associated with IP outweigh the benefits it will bring, but yes if Iran's nuclear talks succeed than this pipeline will be constructed within months but until than it's pipe dream for Pakistanis.

Not at all. Iranian diplomacy is on a different level, since Iran practices independent foreign policy. Pakistan's foreign policy is not independent and therefore like Turkey you could leverage your "being allied status" to take what mattered to you.

Also Pakistan's sanctions were removed not because of Pakistan's diplomacy but because of 9/11 which necessitated the involvement of Pakistan to allow for B-52 to bomb Afghanistan.

Not even a gram of NATO supplies have passed through Iran. Lying will not make something true. But Iran does trade with Afghans, which is completely non-military and has been going on far longer than Pakistan ever existed. Iran never allows B-52's and FA-18's to fly to bomb Afghanistan. That is your distinction and honor.

It would not matter. When Pakistan cooperated with American policies in Afghanistan of 1980's, immediately afterwards Pakistan was put in a corner (even some say sanctioned) by Pressler amendment. Another Pressler amendment of a more serious nature will be applied when Americans leave Afghanistan completely. This goes to show that as nation which practices a dependent foreign policy, you must get what you need when you have the chance. The situation will not improve, from now on. Only get worse.

 

[Sugarcane]

Not at all. Iranian diplomacy is on a different level, since Iran practices independent foreign policy. Pakistan's foreign policy is not independent and therefore like Turkey you could leverage your "being allied status" to take what mattered to you.

Also Pakistan's sanctions were removed not because of Pakistan's diplomacy but because of 9/11 which necessitated the involvement of Pakistan to allow for B-52 to bomb Afghanistan.

Not even a gram of NATO supplies have passed through Iran. Lying will not make something true. But Iran does trade with Afghans, which is completely non-military and has been going on far longer than Pakistan ever existed. Iran never allows B-52's and FA-18's to fly to bomb Afghanistan. That is your distinction and honor.

It would not matter. When Pakistan cooperated with American policies in Afghanistan of 1980's, immediately afterwards Pakistan was put in a corner (even some say sanctioned) by Pressler amendment. Another Pressler amendment of a more serious nature will be applied when Americans leave Afghanistan completely. This goes to show that as nation which practices a dependent foreign policy, you must get what you need when you have the chance. The situation will not improve, from now on. Only get worse.

Ok, whatever you say

 

[Gazi]

Good. Go and get your gas at "international price" from Qatar and from Turkmenistan which actually had offered the gas at 13 dollars per MMBTU (while Iran's offer was 11 dollar per MMBTU). Additionally, Pakistan will have to pay royalty fees to Afghanistan for gas transit which would add to the price. Also, Afghanistan has not been a stable country for the past several thousand years, so you can expect the reliability of such a pipeline going up and down the scary mountains of Afghanistan to be zero. Have fun.

Cool down because TAPI deal despite of being expensive is still a better deal in terms of Geopolitical Leverage it would provide Pakistan as the name itself Suggest its between 4 Countries that Includes India which would consume most of the gas from this pipeline and since it would be passing through Pakistan then India would pay Pakistan a TRANSIT Fee and that transit fee can bring RS13/MMBTU to 11/MMBTU difference to its minimal. Too bad India lost interest on IPI otherwise Pakistan would have built the whole thing by now because it was providing much Bigger Leverage then TAPI as IPI had to pass through Baluchistan and India had to stop its Activities in Baluchistan but this whole TAPI deal isnt bad either because in the end India have to Control their Elements in Afghanistan against Pakistan in order to keep the supplies open but Pakistan also need to Bargain and since its Multilateral so Pakistan can also Exert Pressure on Afghanistan to allow its Trade to pass through Afghanistan to Central Asia while Iran wont be able to do much because Pakistan would be facilitating Transportation of Natural Resources to India from Central Asia.

 

[Daneshmand]

Cool down because TAPI deal despite of being expensive is still a better deal in terms of Geopolitical Leverage it would provide Pakistan as the name itself Suggest its between 4 Countries that Includes India which would consume most of the gas from this pipeline and since it would be passing through Pakistan then India would pay Pakistan a TRANSIT Fee and that transit fee can bring RS13/MMBTU to 11/MMBTU difference to its minimal. Too bad India lost interest on IPI otherwise Pakistan would have built the whole thing by now because it was providing much Bigger Leverage then TAPI as IPI had to pass through Baluchistan and India had to stop its Activities in Baluchistan but this whole TAPI deal isnt bad either because in the end India have to Control their Elements in Afghanistan against Pakistan in order to keep the supplies open but Pakistan also need to Bargain and since its Multilateral so Pakistan can also Exert Pressure on Afghanistan to allow its Trade to pass through Afghanistan to Central Asia while Iran wont be able to do much because Pakistan would be facilitating Transportation of Natural Resources to India from Central Asia.

Good for you.

 

[Gazi]

Good for you.

Nothing is good or bad its all Business. Iran should think about it as well because their Isolationism is not helping them either.

 

[Daneshmand]

Nothing is good or bad its all Business. Iran should think about it as well because their Isolationism is not helping them either.

I am sure you are doing a fine business, overpaying and getting commissions for it. Dont worry about Iran. Worry about yourself.