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Tangled in red tape, India's submarine fleet sinking

mirage2K

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NEW DELHI: The navy's desperate attempts to rescue its sinking underwater combat arm have been dealt a double whammy. First, the ongoing project to construct six Scorpene submarines has been delayed by another 14-18 months, with the first vessel now slated to roll out of Mazagon Dock Limited(MDL) by November 2016 at the earliest.

More worryingly, the new project to construct six advanced stealth submarines, armed with both land-attack missile capabilities and air-independent propulsion for greater underwater endurance, is still stuck in political apathy and bureaucratic red-tape. It has already been examined by three committees after being granted "acceptance of necessity" in November 2007.

The finance ministry has now again returned the file for the over Rs 50,000-crore project, code-named Project-75India, to the defence ministry for clarifications.

"The draft Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) note for P-75I is simply being tossed around with no resolution in sight. The global tender or RFP (request for proposal) for it can be issued only after the CCS approves the file," said a source.

Even if the P-75I tender is floated today, it will take at least three years to ink the contract with the selected foreign collaborator, and another seven to eight years after that for the first submarine to be built.

With the over Rs 23,000 crore Scorpene (P-75) project already running four years behind the original 2012-17 induction schedule, alarms bells are now ringing. The navy is making do with just 14 aging conventional diesel-electric submarines — 10 Russian Kilo-class and four German HDW ones — which are to be progressively retired in the coming years despite life-extension refits. China and Pakistan, meanwhile, are adding muscle to their underwater combat fleets.

Way back in 1999, the CCS approved a 30-year submarine-building plan, which envisaged induction of 12 new submarines by 2012, followed by another dozen by 2030. But the government's inability to plan and take decisions means the navy is yet to get a single submarine 14 years later.

P-75I is embroiled in a debate over the "selection of Indian shipyards" and the "indigenization level to be achieved". While two submarines are to be imported, four will be constructed in India.

The navy wants private shipyards to be involved in the project to save time since MDL is overburdened with orders. But the MoD's defence production department has insisted that three will be built at MDL in Mumbai and one at Hindustan Shipyard in Visakhapatnam.

The Scorpene project, with contracts being inked with French firms in October 2005 has been grossly mismanaged, with huge time and cost overruns. The deal for the 'MDL procured material packages', including sensors, propulsion and the likes, with the French firms was signed only last December. The order for heavy-weight torpedoes to arm the submarines is also yet to be placed.

Projections show only five to six of the present 14 Indian submarines will be fully operational by 2020. Even with a few Scorpenes by then, India will remain far short of the minimum 18 conventional submarines required to deter Pakistan and China.

Tangled in red tape, India's submarine fleet sinking - The Times of India
 
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Naval construction requires decades of planing & execution.Our shipyards are government owned and they use old methods of productions, only just recently module ship construction method has come to our country.
we need to privatise our shipyards, use modern techniques of construction and make a dedicated cadre of UPSC officers for defense portfolio .
 
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Fortunately this debacle comes at a time when we are lucky to have little opposition,china's fleet is still not strong enough to assert itself in any strength in IOR and PN is nonentity.By the time PLAN gains enough strength after 2020,this dismal state of affairs will have been readdressed by the new scorpenes.
 
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This is more sensationlism from the Desi press. Long term things are fine- yes there are some issues in the short to medium term but India's not going to war tommorow so it's nothing really to worry about.
 
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PKS the following question on his blog:

Sir,

Recently TOI published two back to back news on scorpenes, first one quoted French ambassador as saying that the first scorpene will be inducted into IN by 2014. While the second one said that there will be a delay of 18 months to the original date of 2015. Whats you take on it??
His Reply:

The Ambassador had said that the 1st Scorpene would be delivered by 2014. Being a non-military person, what he probably meant was that the 1st Scorpene SSK would be launched in MDL’s wet-basin by 2014, following which final fitting-out will be carried out & then the sea-trials will begin & only after all this has been successfully undertaken will the SSK be commissioned into service, probably by late 2015.

Credit : Abingdon - babaji!
 
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Is the “Arihant” critical now?

It should have been according to earlier Indian reports?

:coffee:
 
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PKS the following question on his blog:

Sir,

Recently TOI published two back to back news on scorpenes, first one quoted French ambassador as saying that the first scorpene will be inducted into IN by 2014. While the second one said that there will be a delay of 18 months to the original date of 2015. Whats you take on it??
His Reply:

The Ambassador had said that the 1st Scorpene would be delivered by 2014. Being a non-military person, what he probably meant was that the 1st Scorpene SSK would be launched in MDL’s wet-basin by 2014, following which final fitting-out will be carried out & then the sea-trials will begin & only after all this has been successfully undertaken will the SSK be commissioned into service, probably by late 2015.

Credit : Abingdon - babaji!

If the 1st Scorpene is scheduled for floating-out in 2014, then there is not a ******** chance that the SKK will be commissioned in 2015!

And judging by India's past record,the induction is NOT likely to happen even in 2017!

Watch my lips:NOT even in 2017!
 
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Naval construction requires decades of planing & execution.Our shipyards are government owned and they use old methods of productions, only just recently module ship construction method has come to our country.
we need to privatise our shipyards, use modern techniques of construction and make a dedicated cadre of UPSC officers for defense portfolio .



Hold a minute bro, Our Shipyards are good. So does our Navy. India can make Frigate/Destroyer/Carrier.. Shipyards are making that.

We don't have skills/experience to make Subs, thats why we are lacking in it. Once we achieve that capability, Submarine making will be piece of cake...

Problem comes where money/Sex comes. The Scorpion deal was tainted deal, Many ppl made money in that deal. Many star kids availed sex trips to Asian countries.



Our shipyards are good, It can be made better...
 
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The finance ministry has now again returned the file for the over Rs 50,000-crore project, code-named Project-75India, to the defence ministry for clarifications.

"The draft Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) note for P-75I is simply being tossed around with no resolution in sight. The global tender or RFP (request for proposal) for it can be issued only after the CCS approves the file," said a source.

Even if the P-75I tender is floated today, it will take at least three years to ink the contract with the selected foreign collaborator, and another seven to eight years after that for the first submarine to be built.





Bravo Son of Nehrus.. The corrupt leaders, Bravo... You killed one more Arjuna... U are killing one more desi project in favor of Dalali (corrupt commission). After 3 years the same politicians will wake up and go for shopping. They will shop for best submarine with best package (Sex, money and alcohol).

MoFo politicians are against NAVY admiral. Navy is pushing hard to get as much desi product as possible. While these nexus (Neta-Babu-corrupt general and family) are trying to sabotage Navy aspiration...

 
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So what's new?

Good night...
Goodnight.gif
 
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If the 1st Scorpene is scheduled for floating-out in 2014, then there is not a ******** chance that the SKK will be commissioned in 2015!

And judging by India's past record,the induction is NOT likely to happen even in 2017!

Watch my lips:NOT even in 2017!

Even 2015 end is gr8. HERE'S what DCNS chief says.

Amid reports of India’s Scorpene submarine building programme at defence shipyard Mazagon Dock Limited (MDL) suffering another jolt and resultant delay in the wake of the yard’s failure to renew its technology assistance contract with the Spanish Navantia, DCNS-India — subsidiary of the French defence shipbuilding firm DCNS which is the original manufacturer of the Scorpenes — insists that the project is very much on track.

“DCNS is the original manufacturer of the Scorpene submarine and we have all the know-how and design authority to perform TOTs [transfer of technology] for the complete submarine. We have provided MDL with technical assistance beyond contractual obligations in order to overcome teething problems and we will continue to do so until [the] successful completion of the project, Bernard Buisson, managing director of DCNS-India, told The Hindu over email when asked about the fallout of Navantia pulling out its consultants from the project.

While Navantia and French firm DCN (which later became DCNS) had jointly developed the Scorpenes, the two parted ways in 2010 following a spat, with DCNS becoming the only manufacturer of the diesel-electric submarines.

In his detailed response, Mr. Buisson chose to tacitly blame MDL for delaying the project for construction of six submarines for the Indian Navy, attributing the teething problems the yard faced and ostensibly overcome to its lack of submarine building experience in the last 15 years as also to the contractual obligation of building the entire class in India.

“….MDL had stopped manufacturing submarines for more than 15 years. Indeed, no shipyard can retain the expertise, know-how and trained staff if there is no permanent activity to maintain a minimum level of competence.

“Another specificity of this project is that all the six submarines are being built in MDL. Usually, for such contracts involving complex TOTs, the first of class (first submarine) is always manufactured at the OEM’s [original equipment manufacturer] shipyard with on-the-job training (OJT) from the buyer’s shipyard who can thus acquire know-how more rapidly,” he said.

The MDL had now been able to manufacture hulls of all six submarines as fast and with the same level of quality as DCNS would in its shipyard in France, he added.

According to Mr. Buisson, MDL’s complex procurement procedures too contributed to the delay.

“… The procurement of a large quantity of equipment from many different overseas suppliers is not an easy task and some of these foreign small and medium enterprises are not used to deal[ing] directly with foreign shipyards like MDL who have complex procurement procedures.

DCNS insists Scorpene project is on track - Worldnews.com
 
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