Talks for Su-35, Mi-35 sales to Pakistan are underway: Russian Deputy FM

[aftab_s81]

Why NOT Mig-35 for PAF?
Mig-35 is roughly equivalent to F-16 B-50+, also it shares same engine of JFT.
Any thoughts?

 

[massattack]

Why NOT Mig-35 for PAF?
Mig-35 is roughly equivalent to F-16 B-50+, also it shares same engine of JFT.
Any thoughts?

the recent display of advance maneuvering at the airshow by su 35 makes it a prime candidate. the mig 35 is still underdevelopment and could be a potential candidate in future.

 

[aftab_s81]

the recent display of advance maneuvering at the airshow by su 35 makes it a prime candidate. the mig 35 is still underdevelopment and could be a potential candidate in future.

I have read somewhere that with mig-35, the maintenance issues are solved, also the added benefit of same engine as that of JFT, make it very favorite. we can get rid of american dependency in this way. what is the price tag for mig-35, BTW?

 

[airmarshal]

Is there any Indian out their left to object on this deal?

And their argument is so predictable

- Russia economy and weapon industry dependent on India
- India has so much money all world powers will bow to them, forgeting their geopolitical interests
- Pakistan has no money.

Stop arguing with these retards.

 

[massattack]

what is the price tag for mig-35, BTW?

Click on the below link it says 30m us dollar a piece.

Welcome to Aircraft Compare

 

[Wolf]

To assess the seriousness of russian offer, keep following things in mind.

1) annual trade between india and russia
2) what is balance of trade position between india and russia
3) number of defence or other projects going on between india and russia and their net worth.

if the aforementioned issues are not in favour of russia i.e. if trade is tilted in favour of india or russian exports to india constitute a minor part of overall russian exports or to put it simply if india needs russia more than russia needs india THEN we will get Su 35s otherwise there is less chance even if russia wants to sell these birds, it may not be in a position to do so.

 

[aliyusuf]

To assess the seriousness of russian offer, keep following things in mind.

1) annual trade between india and russia
2) what is balance of trade position between india and russia
3) number of defence or other projects going on between india and russia and their net worth.

if the aforementioned issues are not in favour of russia i.e. if trade is tilted in favour of india or russian exports to india constitute a minor part of overall russian exports or to put it simply if india needs russia more than russia needs india THEN we will get Su 35s otherwise there is less chance even if russia wants to sell these birds, it may not be in a position to do so.

Geo political and strategic roadmap and the reality of China and Russia combo. These are the two aspects missing from your assessment.

Instead of analyzing this in a Russia-Pakistan vs Russia-India scope, a more astute, realistic and objective approach would be to analyze this in the scope of China-Russia vs West scope. The two are cooperating and strengthening ties with countries at various geo-political theatres in world to counter the west, which is increasingly vying to aggressively marginalize the two from the future global strategic scene.

In this context the two seem to be on page to utilize Pakistan (China more so) to achieve their future economic and strategic objectives in this region.

India is increasingly leaning strategically towards the west. So in the scheme of things to come ... mid to long term goals of India and the China-Russia combo are increasingly becoming at loggerheads.

So in order to emphasize what I am trying to say ... I will paraphrase your post to what in my humble opinion is the true situation ... here goes ...

To assess the seriousness of russian offer, keep following things in mind.

1) annual trade between china and russia
2) what is balance of trade position between china and russia
3) number of defence or other projects going on between china and russia and their net worth.

Kindly ask yourself, whether China is worth more to Russia or is it India. The deal might go through if it is the former and absolutely won't happen if its the latter.

 

[massattack]

besides russians know chinese always make dulplicates so pakistan will eventually get the birds no matter what. inshallah so Russia thinks if thats whats going to happen better sell it first hand and make some profit

 

[aliyusuf]

besides russians know chinese always make dulplicates so pakistan will eventually get the birds no matter what. inshallah so Russia thinks if thats whats going to happen better sell it first hand and make some profit

In my humble opinion, the best possible deal that can come out of all this is that PAF gets J-11D with the Russian Saturn AL-117 (Su-35s) engines. Just imagine ... an AESA (1760+ TRMs) powered J-11D that will have super-cruise, TVC (not too essential) and will be armed with PL-15 LRAAM and PL-10 HOBS WVRAAM and no issues with integrating with the Pakistani AWACS ... plus all the goodies that the JF-17 can carry and more. But such a fighter would be a few years away to become a reality and be part of the PAF. But as wishful thinkings go, not a bad wish to have.

 

[batmannow]

In my humble opinion, the best possible deal that can come out of all this is that PAF gets J-11D with the Russian Saturn AL-117 (Su-35s) engines. Just imagine ... an AESA (1760+ TRMs) powered J-11D that will have super-cruise, TVC (not too essential) and will be armed with PL-15 LRAAM and PL-10 HOBS WVRAAM and no issues with integrating with the Pakistani AWACS ... plus all the goodies that the JF-17 can carry and more. But such a fighter would be a few years away to become a reality and be part of the PAF. But as wishful thinkings go, not a bad wish to have.

Its been stated a million times that , China won't sell any thing , walks or talks like J-11s to anyone ,so pls stop speculation about it ?
Its either , SU-35s or nothing !

 

[aliyusuf]

Its been stated a million times that , China won't sell any thing , walks or talks like J-11s to anyone ,so pls stop speculation about it ?
Its either , SU-35s or nothing !

Sir, as per my limited understanding everything that we are posting on this thread is nothing but speculation.

All we know is that talks may have been held on the Su-35 with the Russians. What was the scope and nature of the talks we don't know. How it will eventually end up, we don't know. We have to wait and see.

What I posted above is simply an if this could only happen. And it is not that far fetched either.

Because, way I see it, the only way this sort of deal (i.e. for Su-35) is going to succeed is through the joint game plan, approval and cooperation for the deal between Russia, Pakistan and China. And if for any reason direct sale to Pakistan is not possible, then Russia will have no qualms in clearing the way for China to step in and sell its platform (i.e. AL-117 powered J-11D) to Pakistan. That too if Russia agrees to provide its most advanced fighter engine to date. So the tacit agreement on which China holds itself true i.e. not encroaching on Russia's Flanker export market will no longer be applicable and nor be a hindrance.

But of course you are entitled to see it a different way.

 

[xperia]

It seems PAF higher command has no goal in their mind. They are just waiting for india to makes it's move on rafale. PAF seems to be happy with JFT and the Falcon. Defensive approach it seems. Su 35 in PAF colors is out of question. We can't afford to have even two squadrons. Can't afford their maintenance.Entirely new platform, new technology.It will take years to fully integrate the jet in the PAF. The stealth jets of china are on paper right now. The only option left for the PAF is J 10.

 

[Wolf]

Sino russian ties wont suffer if russians dont sell us su 35s. Yes, if Pakistan and China put up a joint order, then its a different story. You are right if we have something to offer e.g. in the shape of russian pakistan economic corridor or connection of cpec cooridor with russia or allowing russians to use ormara atleast for economic reasons.

 

[batmannow]

Sir, as per my limited understanding everything that we are posting on this thread is nothing but speculation.

All we know is that talks may have been held on the Su-35 with the Russians. What was the scope and nature of the talks we don't know. How it will eventually end up, we don't know. We have to wait and see.

What I posted above is simply an if this could only happen. And it is not that far fetched either.

Because, way I see it, the only way this sort of deal (i.e. for Su-35) is going to succeed is through the joint game plan, approval and cooperation for the deal between Russia, Pakistan and China. And if for any reason direct sale to Pakistan is not possible, then Russia will have no qualms in clearing the way for China to step in and sell its platform (i.e. AL-117 powered J-11D) to Pakistan. That too if Russia agrees to provide its most advanced fighter engine to date. So the tacit agreement on which China holds itself true i.e. not encroaching on Russia's Flanker export market will no longer be applicable and nor be a hindrance.

But of course you are entitled to see it a different way.

So you think , Russian DFM just speculated ?
Why direct sale of any Russian weapons are not possible to Pakistan ?

 

[Jammer]

Really Xperia! SU35 might not materialize for Pakistan, however, myself or anybody that has been remotely associated with the PAF can comfortably disagree when you say that the "PAF higher command has no goal in their mind'. Please step back and look at all the moving parts and be an adult.