Talks for Su-35, Mi-35 sales to Pakistan are underway: Russian Deputy FM

[imran rashid]

We've money we'll do whatever we want from wherever we want....

jb tm khud ksi se bhe ly sakty ho to hmari purchase pe rona keun shuru kar deya ha, Kya russia tmhara bap ha jo hm us se kuch nhi ly sakty. r isi tarah jealous r proxy wars karty rho

 

[nangyale]

During the closing phases of the cold war and even right after it, the Russians weren't too keen on selling their top line military equipment to China. Then VVP became president and he gave the go ahead to anything and everything that the Chinese wanted and they suddenly became the biggest importers of Russian defence equipment.
I think a similar moment is arriving in the Russo-Pak relationship.
The Indians can cry, or they can cancel their orders (which is next to impossible) but the Russian establishment has decided to deal with Pakistan on an open basis and their nothing that the Indians can do about it.;

 

[$@rJen]

I didn't call and I didn't derail the thread. I responded to your Indian friend's post with fact. You then invited all the mods or one of your friends did. Don't know and don't care.

I wish you guys can just debate on facts vs. getting all personal. If you can't handle me with facts, you don't have to respond. Move on to the next post.

Why do the threads need to be deleted because you guys don't follow rules? I think people who don't follow rules and flame first, should be banned. I believe in respect and courtesy for everything. But you attack my personally, my flags nd all, boy you'll get a response back!

Dear lord!!! How is it even possible.... why don't you go and check the first page!!?? your first reply was for me and your first line itself insult.... and none of the Indian users called mods or any one.. it was once agin you who called Horus,Wedmaster Irfan and ect...

 

[Foxtrot Delta]

too many threads with the same title. people fighting not good not good.

 

[ni8mare]

but still India has gone for Rafales 36 of them Also 3.1 billion dollar deal is about to signed for 22 Apache and Chinook Heavy lift Helicopter won't Russia is looking for that to?

Exactly ...........buying from America france or russia is to veto any sell to pakistan.....

What we are getting from russia:

PAKFA + FGFA = 35BN
TANKS = 5 BN
Brahmos JV program
Mig29K
HELICOPTER=4BN
FRIGATE = 3BN
NUKE SUB=1BN
SU 30MKI (42 NOS)=4.2 BN
MISSILES = AAM, AGM,AShM ETC

this above are confirmed ...........and thats atleast 50 bn we are talking about

What are we may get :
Su-30 upgrade = 5 bn
SUBs deal = 10 bn
Helicopter upgrade=2 bn
Frigate and destroyer upgrade=?? (recently passed will be with VLS shtil-1 etc)
ACC upgrde=??

So you can see we are not abounding Russia or something .......there is no not buying from russia as you are thinking

Plus Why India would say food bye to Russia who's gonna give the Spares of MKI MiG 29 Su-27 ??? Even Most of the things in India is Russian made (military equipment)
I Don't think India can say bye bye to Russia just like that....

As i said there is aleast 60-70 bn is involved ,,,,,,,,,which can easily veto any sell to pakistan
lets wait for Nov vist of modi to russia things will get clear

 

[Viper0011.]

Are you sure, multiple de-classified US state department memos show otherwise. The closest the world came to annihilation was in Cuban Crisis when JFK threatened Nikita Khrushchev with Nukes.

That is besides the fact US is the only country to have actually used nukes. Please read about the history of your country before you go all self righteous

When two super powers get into a clash or near clash, these things you are mentioning are verbally communicated out of anger and emotions. Doesn't mean they were true. It was more like a reality check for both to calm down and resolve issues through dialogue.

On the other topic, It was the WWII. Not India and Pakistan wars. And second, because a mistake or two were made almost a little less than a CENTURY ago, doesn't mean it has to be repeated again. The US since WWII has kept some order in the world. No matter how you debate it, its a fact. No one but the US would've been able to maintain control over all territories and the fact is, the world's business, economies and industries grew in this time. Its a part of the human history.

I am not a fan of ONE person getting hurt in a war personally, but in wars, things happen beyond control. So my advise to you, is to work with Pakistanis and get into trade. There is no ending to this macho-men crap you both are doing and no one wins. However, if trade and peace is given a priority and its actually established, ALL humans living inside India and Pakistan win and grow and create more successful and peaceful future for their next generations to come.

Dear lord!!! How is it even possible.... why don't you go and check the first page!!?? your first reply was for me and your first line itself insult.... and none of the Indian users called mods or any one.. it was once agin you who called Horus,Wedmaster Irfan and ect...

Ok......I am sorry. I deal with like a billion of you a day. Names and shapes get mixed up sometimes.

 

[SQ8]

Or rather, shoddy journalism being recycled just as 40 billion ollar Potus vist, and lost in translation reboot of of D.fM of russia ....
Remember, MMRCA is chum change compared to FGFA, and look up the Mig29 documentary, pogosev and korotkov, main fight was to keep Mig29M alive, it did not happen as the 35 but as the 29K and MoD fully supported it, even though SU platform would have better logistical support.

There is a small change in attitudes, but as such.. it will be confined to the Mi-35 and continued Mi-17 support. Something that even the Russians are not going to budge from as they want their say in the new Af-Pak game.

 

[Spectre]

When two super powers get into a clash or near clash, these things you are mentioning are verbally communicated out of anger and emotions. Doesn't mean they were true. It was more like a reality check for both to calm down and resolve issues through dialogue.

On the other topic, It was the WWII. Not India and Pakistan wars. And second, because a mistake or two were made almost a little less than a CENTURY, doesn't mean it has to be repeated and all. The US since WWII has kept some order in the world. No matter how you debate it, its a fact.

I am not a fan of ONE person getting hurt in a war personally, but in wars, things happen beyond control. So my advise to you, is to work with Pakistanis and get into trade. There is no ending to this macho men crap you both are doing and no one wins. However, if trade and peace is given a priority and established, ALL humans living inside India and Pakistan win.

I appreciate the second part of your post.

However just for heck of it - You don't calm things when you threaten the other side with nukes - that is escalation.

That's all

Regards

 

[$@rJen]

Ok......I am sorry. I deal with like a billion of you a day. Names and shapes get mixed up sometimes.

See another insult... anyway i'm still waiting for your quote for the reply MilSpec gave you.... ..

 

[nangyale]

Exactly ...........buying from America france or russia is to veto any sell to pakistan.....

What we are getting from russia:

PAKFA + FGFA = 35BN
TANKS = 5 BN
Brahmos JV program
Mig29K
HELICOPTER=4BN
FRIGATE = 3BN
NUKE SUB=1BN
SU 30MKI (42 NOS)=4.2 BN
MISSILES = AAM, AGM,AShM ETC

this above are confirmed ...........and thats atleast 50 bn we are talking about

What are we may get :
Su-30 upgrade = 5 bn
SUBs deal = 10 bn
Helicopter upgrade=2 bn
Frigate and destroyer upgrade=?? (recently passed will be with VLS shtil-1 etc)
ACC upgrde=??

So you can see we are not abounding Russia or something .......there is no not buying from russia as you are thinking



As i said there is aleast 60-70 bn is involved ,,,,,,,,,which can easily veto any sell to pakistan
lets wait for Nov vist of modi to russia things will get clear

So are you saying that India will cancel all those deals if Russia start selling top line military equipment to Pakistan?
Just trying to get some clarity to what is behind the list you just posted.

 

[SipahSalar]

Truth is, Block 52 F-16 is way ahead of anything Russia has to offer. Sure it can maneuver pretty well, but the avionics and sensors suite in Block 52 is at the top of the food chain. The only reason Pakistan is looking at the Su-35 is because of its twin engines. The other option would have been to go for the F-15's, but they are way too expensive.

I suspect, Pakistan will never buy Su-35's, those beasts need several hours of maintenance for every hour flown, and from what i know of PAF, they like to keep it simple with no hala gula.

As for jeopardizing Rus-India relationship, Russia does not give a rats dropping about it. They sold Su-30MKIs to China, and not to mention S-400. Do you think India did not whine and complain about those deals? Sure it did, but Russia don't give a fk. Yoga will go a long way to help alleviate India's pain.

 

[ni8mare]

Shame on your all funding. Ask your Stupid & most corrupted leaders who always want war, that they should make reasonable employment opportunities for phD students otherwise they will apply sweeper instead cerks, aesy yahan barkein r shokhyan na maro

don't bring stupid issue into a defence thread ....india spend 1.8 % of GDP where as pak spend 3.5% of GDP
so tell these BS to your corrupt noora.............

So are you saying that India will cancel all those deals if Russia start selling top line military equipment to Pakistan?
Just trying to get some clarity to what is behind the list you just posted.

Where i said even something like that................As i said we could Veto any sell to pak because we are buying at least 50 bn of equipment

 

[nangyale]

d



Where i said even something like that................As i said we could Veto any sell to pak because we are buying at least 50 bn of equipment

So what's the threat then.
What if the Russians say screw you we are selling to Pakistan the same way we are selling to China.
The same way US is selling to both India and Pakistan.
What would you do cancel all your orders or just keep on whinging?

 

[SQ8]

There is one thing to be kept in mind however. If tomorrow the Russians do decide to sell the Su-35, they can and will despite all Indian protests; since India really cannot do anything about it.

The reasons for that are the existing massive contracts that India already has with Russia. While from the persepctive of many Indian members it would seem as if India has Russia in a fix; so does Russia have India in the fix. That billion invested in those weapons is an investment of both time and money. Time is the most important commodity here as those weapons represent a capability that the Indian military forces cannot afford to delay or lose. They cannot leverage stepping out of those contracts because that puts a dent in their capability. A capability that INDIA WANTS FROM RUSSIA.

Which is why, despite India's protests.. the US still sells to Pakistan. and will also sell to India. Is it possible(unlikely as it may seem w.r.t Su-35) that Russia is taking the same path as the US?

 

[ni8mare]

Yoga will go a long way to help alleviate India's pain.

@Irfan Baloch @WebMaster @blain2 @Oscar sir ....why all time religion is bought with out any issue ?

Would you stand similar insults on koran, the prophet, or myths associated that this member or other member does on hinduism and vedas?