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Turkey defense analyst Aaron Stein Cofirms Full ToT
U.S., NATO Take Dim View Of Turkey-China Missile Deal
October 1, 2013 - 8:51am, by Joshua Kucera
U.S., NATO Take Dim View Of Turkey-China Missile Deal | EurasiaNet.org
NATO
Turkey
U.S.
Turkey's American and NATO allies have not responded well to the announcement that Turkey plans to buy an air defense system from China, bypassing American and European systems.
State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki told reporters: "We, of course, have conveyed our serious concerns about the Turkish governments contract discussions with a U.S. sanctioned company for a missile defense system that will not be interoperable with NATO systems or collective defense capabilities. Our discussions will continue." (The Chinese manufacturer of the winning system, China Precision Machinery Import and Export Corp., is under U.S. sanctions for doing business with Iran, but it seems unlikely that is Washington's real issue with the deal.) And the U.S. ambassador to Turkey added: "Turkey is a NATO ally. When we see the need for its defense we act as an ally and we are going to do that for as long as we are allies... We hope you will choose a NATO compatible system so that you will have the best air defense system in the world.
And officials who spoke anonymously were significantly more negative. From Defense News:
How could Turkey, protected by NATO assets, ignore the alliances concerns and opt for an air defense system to be built by a non-friendly country? asked a NATO defense attaché in Ankara....
This is clearly a nod to the SCO [Shanghai Security Cooperation], a European and NATO ambassador here said. And a powerful message to [Turkeys] NATO allies that Turkey may no longer be the staunch ally it used to be.
And from Today's Zaman:
The US is very, very unhappy about Turkey's selection of China [as their provider]. US President Barack Obama has twice taken up the missile issue with Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan during their face-to-face meetings and reminded the Turkish prime minister about the interoperability problems that a non-NATO system will create, said a defense industry source in Ankara, quoting the US sources.
Turkey's main opposition party, the Republican People's Party, tried to take advantage of the rift:
The United States especially and our NATO allies are showing their reactions. The Chinese firm is under U.S. sanctions and Turkey is a member of NATO. Turkey-EU relations have come to the brink of rupture under this government and by this agreement, the same will happen with NATO as well, deputy leader Faruk Loğoğlu said.
And Turkey's government officials appeared to take a step back from the announcement, pointing out that the deal isn't necessarily complete yet (Turkey has chosen to start negotiations on the terms of the deal exclusively with the Chinese manufacturer, but those talks could fall through). President Abdullah Gül said: The purchase is not definite. ... There is a short list and China is at the top of it. We should look at the conditions, but there is no doubt that Turkey is primarily in NATO.
But they also emphasized that they didn't appreciate U.S. lecturing:
"We do not consider anything other than Turkey's interests," Turkish Deputy Prime Minister Bulent Arinc told reporters.
"It is not possible for another country to say, 'I have a problem with them, I had put them on a black list, a red list, how could you give them a tender?'" said Arinc, who also serves as the government's spokesman....
"We are a member of NATO and we have had good relations from the beginning with NATO countries, especially the United States. However, when it comes to the subject of defending Turkey ... we have the power to take a decision without looking to anyone else," he said.
As Turkey defense analyst Aaron Stein notes, China fulfilled the Turkish conditions for the sale -- joint manufacturing of the system and full transfer of the technology to the Turkish side -- which Raytheon, the American bidder, wasn't: "[T]he selection of a Chinese firm was not intended to send a signal to the West. The evidence strongly suggests that Ankara chose the system because of its emphasis on coproduction arrangements for military procurements." And he notes:
The selection of a Chinese systems is actually a validation of the NATO security arrangement. If Turkey were REALLY concerned about its security, it would have chosen the American or European system. Instead, Ankara reasoned that it can rely on NATO systems, while it begins its decades long effort to build its own missile defense system.
But the fact that Turkey prioritized local industry over NATO compatibility is, in some sense, a rebuff of NATO. But at the same time, Raytheon's refusal to meet Turkey's terms is also a rebuff of Ankara. One wonders if U.S. officials are, behind the scenes, delivering that message to Raytheon executives.
U.S., NATO Take Dim View Of Turkey-China Missile Deal | EurasiaNet.org
Indian Strategic Studies: Why Turkeys Buying Chinese Missile Systems
Turkey Plans Her Own Early Warning System Other than Being Dependent Nato
Ancak bu kararın bir sonucu olarak Türkiye Çinli sistemi NATOnun erken uyarı sitemiyle entegre edemeyecek. Türkiyenin erken uyarı sistemi üretme planları var, bu yüzden Ankara ortak yapım bir projeden hazır bir sisteme göre daha çok faydalanacağını düşünüyor olmalı. (MİLLİYET Washington) Milliyet âNATOânun yanında Çin yapımı sistem olmazâ - Milliyet
Defencenews and Hurriyet Analyst Burak Berkdil Confirms Full ToT
Dragon Kiss
Turkish delight for NATO
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When, precisely three months ago, I wrote in this newspaper but in another column that the Turkish government was preparing to select a Chinese company, among a bunch of U.S., European and Russian options, to build the countrys first long-range air and anti-missile architecture, my NATO acquaintances simply looked appalled. Shyly hiding their disbelief, the men in uniform sporting different flags on their chests simply smiled at the possibility of what would be a genuine irony: Would Turkey, militarily protected by NATO and its assets, go for a rival system when extremely critical military technology was at stake? Polite smiles at the insanity of what my column claimed, followed by certainly nots.
As often I do, I was shocked at others shock at last Fridays announcement that Turkey had chosen the Chinese solution in its slow-moving military program to build a powerful air defense system that comes with a price tag of anywhere between $3 billion and $3.5 billion or $4 billion for a non-Chinese system. Would Turkey? Almost certainly yes.
For a number of reasons, Turkey, militarily protected by NATO and its assets stationed on its soil could go for a rival system even when at stake was a critical military technology. This is a challenge militarily and politically.
First, the choice of the HQ-9, the Chinese air defense system, on a ceteris paribus basis, reflects a Turkish extremity about building Turkish weapon systems whether and whenever possible, perhaps possible or perhaps impossible. After the originally off-the-shelf acquisition plan was restructured in January to co-production, the Chinese contender, CPMIEC, almost stood alone for victory with commitments for full technology transfer whether or not these commitments should be fulfilled. What mattered for the Chinese was to win the contract; the terms could always be amicably and discreetly worked out later. Funny, we now have smiling faces in Turkey and China; the Turks, because they think they will be able to build a complex Turkish military system based on Chinese technology; and the Chinese, because they won a big, critical contract from a NATO customer country.
Second, and politically, the Turkish quest for the dragon kiss is perfectly consistent with its foreign policy calculations, nowadays portrayed as precious solitude in the words of the prime ministers chief foreign policy advisor.
Just as Turkey unwillingly shapes its foreign policy, the Sino-Turkish air defense system will most likely be a standalone shield since NATO member states have no intention of integrating the HQ-9 with the NATO assets in Turkey as evinced by Washingtons thinly veiled declaration on Monday. Allow me to use a simple metaphor to explain this.
You live in Turkey and intend to buy a nice TV set. The available satellite system in your apartment offers you a number of pre-set TV channels to watch. Half of these channels are Western and half are Turkish. One day you decide to buy your fancy made-in-China plasma TV, the Shanghai Dragon.
Your technician says some of the Turkish TV channels available could be watched with the existing software on your Shanghai Dragon, but to watch the Western channels, you need interface data. And to obtain interface data you must apply to the Union of Western Broadcasters which openly views Chinese TV manufacturers as hostile. So simple. Now go back to your local technician to see if you could one day successfully receive a signal from your Turkish channels.
You feel proud because some parts of your Shanghai Dragon may have been assembled in Turkey. You can also feel smart because you paid only $325 for your smart Shanghai Dragon while your friends paid $400 for their smart Western-made TVs. As Vago Muradian, editor-in-chief of the U.S. weekly Defense News, put it: Its a penny-wise, pound-foolish move.
Is this the end of the story? Not yet. Turkish defense procurement history is full of less-than-half-baked, Kodak-moment celebrations which later crawl on for several years only to end with a shy official statement that says contract negotiations have failed, or the contract has been scrapped, or it has been restructured for a new competition.
Until then, the Turkish delight will surely be served to sour, unwilling faces at NATO headquarters.
BURAK BEKD
THAT IS IT
Defence Minister Yilmaz
"We had asked for joint production and a technology transfer," the Turkish minister said. "If other countries cannot guarantee us that, then we will turn to ones that can."
Chinese military experts say the system performed well in live tests for the Turkish Defence Ministry.
For China, Turkey missile deal a victory even if it doesn't happen | Reuters
U.S., NATO Take Dim View Of Turkey-China Missile Deal
October 1, 2013 - 8:51am, by Joshua Kucera
U.S., NATO Take Dim View Of Turkey-China Missile Deal | EurasiaNet.org
NATO
Turkey
U.S.
Turkey's American and NATO allies have not responded well to the announcement that Turkey plans to buy an air defense system from China, bypassing American and European systems.
State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki told reporters: "We, of course, have conveyed our serious concerns about the Turkish governments contract discussions with a U.S. sanctioned company for a missile defense system that will not be interoperable with NATO systems or collective defense capabilities. Our discussions will continue." (The Chinese manufacturer of the winning system, China Precision Machinery Import and Export Corp., is under U.S. sanctions for doing business with Iran, but it seems unlikely that is Washington's real issue with the deal.) And the U.S. ambassador to Turkey added: "Turkey is a NATO ally. When we see the need for its defense we act as an ally and we are going to do that for as long as we are allies... We hope you will choose a NATO compatible system so that you will have the best air defense system in the world.
And officials who spoke anonymously were significantly more negative. From Defense News:
How could Turkey, protected by NATO assets, ignore the alliances concerns and opt for an air defense system to be built by a non-friendly country? asked a NATO defense attaché in Ankara....
This is clearly a nod to the SCO [Shanghai Security Cooperation], a European and NATO ambassador here said. And a powerful message to [Turkeys] NATO allies that Turkey may no longer be the staunch ally it used to be.
And from Today's Zaman:
The US is very, very unhappy about Turkey's selection of China [as their provider]. US President Barack Obama has twice taken up the missile issue with Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan during their face-to-face meetings and reminded the Turkish prime minister about the interoperability problems that a non-NATO system will create, said a defense industry source in Ankara, quoting the US sources.
Turkey's main opposition party, the Republican People's Party, tried to take advantage of the rift:
The United States especially and our NATO allies are showing their reactions. The Chinese firm is under U.S. sanctions and Turkey is a member of NATO. Turkey-EU relations have come to the brink of rupture under this government and by this agreement, the same will happen with NATO as well, deputy leader Faruk Loğoğlu said.
And Turkey's government officials appeared to take a step back from the announcement, pointing out that the deal isn't necessarily complete yet (Turkey has chosen to start negotiations on the terms of the deal exclusively with the Chinese manufacturer, but those talks could fall through). President Abdullah Gül said: The purchase is not definite. ... There is a short list and China is at the top of it. We should look at the conditions, but there is no doubt that Turkey is primarily in NATO.
But they also emphasized that they didn't appreciate U.S. lecturing:
"We do not consider anything other than Turkey's interests," Turkish Deputy Prime Minister Bulent Arinc told reporters.
"It is not possible for another country to say, 'I have a problem with them, I had put them on a black list, a red list, how could you give them a tender?'" said Arinc, who also serves as the government's spokesman....
"We are a member of NATO and we have had good relations from the beginning with NATO countries, especially the United States. However, when it comes to the subject of defending Turkey ... we have the power to take a decision without looking to anyone else," he said.
As Turkey defense analyst Aaron Stein notes, China fulfilled the Turkish conditions for the sale -- joint manufacturing of the system and full transfer of the technology to the Turkish side -- which Raytheon, the American bidder, wasn't: "[T]he selection of a Chinese firm was not intended to send a signal to the West. The evidence strongly suggests that Ankara chose the system because of its emphasis on coproduction arrangements for military procurements." And he notes:
The selection of a Chinese systems is actually a validation of the NATO security arrangement. If Turkey were REALLY concerned about its security, it would have chosen the American or European system. Instead, Ankara reasoned that it can rely on NATO systems, while it begins its decades long effort to build its own missile defense system.
But the fact that Turkey prioritized local industry over NATO compatibility is, in some sense, a rebuff of NATO. But at the same time, Raytheon's refusal to meet Turkey's terms is also a rebuff of Ankara. One wonders if U.S. officials are, behind the scenes, delivering that message to Raytheon executives.
U.S., NATO Take Dim View Of Turkey-China Missile Deal | EurasiaNet.org
Indian Strategic Studies: Why Turkeys Buying Chinese Missile Systems
Turkey Plans Her Own Early Warning System Other than Being Dependent Nato
Ancak bu kararın bir sonucu olarak Türkiye Çinli sistemi NATOnun erken uyarı sitemiyle entegre edemeyecek. Türkiyenin erken uyarı sistemi üretme planları var, bu yüzden Ankara ortak yapım bir projeden hazır bir sisteme göre daha çok faydalanacağını düşünüyor olmalı. (MİLLİYET Washington) Milliyet âNATOânun yanında Çin yapımı sistem olmazâ - Milliyet
Defencenews and Hurriyet Analyst Burak Berkdil Confirms Full ToT
Dragon Kiss
Turkish delight for NATO
Print Page Send to friend »
Share
When, precisely three months ago, I wrote in this newspaper but in another column that the Turkish government was preparing to select a Chinese company, among a bunch of U.S., European and Russian options, to build the countrys first long-range air and anti-missile architecture, my NATO acquaintances simply looked appalled. Shyly hiding their disbelief, the men in uniform sporting different flags on their chests simply smiled at the possibility of what would be a genuine irony: Would Turkey, militarily protected by NATO and its assets, go for a rival system when extremely critical military technology was at stake? Polite smiles at the insanity of what my column claimed, followed by certainly nots.
As often I do, I was shocked at others shock at last Fridays announcement that Turkey had chosen the Chinese solution in its slow-moving military program to build a powerful air defense system that comes with a price tag of anywhere between $3 billion and $3.5 billion or $4 billion for a non-Chinese system. Would Turkey? Almost certainly yes.
For a number of reasons, Turkey, militarily protected by NATO and its assets stationed on its soil could go for a rival system even when at stake was a critical military technology. This is a challenge militarily and politically.
First, the choice of the HQ-9, the Chinese air defense system, on a ceteris paribus basis, reflects a Turkish extremity about building Turkish weapon systems whether and whenever possible, perhaps possible or perhaps impossible. After the originally off-the-shelf acquisition plan was restructured in January to co-production, the Chinese contender, CPMIEC, almost stood alone for victory with commitments for full technology transfer whether or not these commitments should be fulfilled. What mattered for the Chinese was to win the contract; the terms could always be amicably and discreetly worked out later. Funny, we now have smiling faces in Turkey and China; the Turks, because they think they will be able to build a complex Turkish military system based on Chinese technology; and the Chinese, because they won a big, critical contract from a NATO customer country.
Second, and politically, the Turkish quest for the dragon kiss is perfectly consistent with its foreign policy calculations, nowadays portrayed as precious solitude in the words of the prime ministers chief foreign policy advisor.
Just as Turkey unwillingly shapes its foreign policy, the Sino-Turkish air defense system will most likely be a standalone shield since NATO member states have no intention of integrating the HQ-9 with the NATO assets in Turkey as evinced by Washingtons thinly veiled declaration on Monday. Allow me to use a simple metaphor to explain this.
You live in Turkey and intend to buy a nice TV set. The available satellite system in your apartment offers you a number of pre-set TV channels to watch. Half of these channels are Western and half are Turkish. One day you decide to buy your fancy made-in-China plasma TV, the Shanghai Dragon.
Your technician says some of the Turkish TV channels available could be watched with the existing software on your Shanghai Dragon, but to watch the Western channels, you need interface data. And to obtain interface data you must apply to the Union of Western Broadcasters which openly views Chinese TV manufacturers as hostile. So simple. Now go back to your local technician to see if you could one day successfully receive a signal from your Turkish channels.
You feel proud because some parts of your Shanghai Dragon may have been assembled in Turkey. You can also feel smart because you paid only $325 for your smart Shanghai Dragon while your friends paid $400 for their smart Western-made TVs. As Vago Muradian, editor-in-chief of the U.S. weekly Defense News, put it: Its a penny-wise, pound-foolish move.
Is this the end of the story? Not yet. Turkish defense procurement history is full of less-than-half-baked, Kodak-moment celebrations which later crawl on for several years only to end with a shy official statement that says contract negotiations have failed, or the contract has been scrapped, or it has been restructured for a new competition.
Until then, the Turkish delight will surely be served to sour, unwilling faces at NATO headquarters.
BURAK BEKD
THAT IS IT
Defence Minister Yilmaz
"We had asked for joint production and a technology transfer," the Turkish minister said. "If other countries cannot guarantee us that, then we will turn to ones that can."
Chinese military experts say the system performed well in live tests
They say Turkey's willingness to choose the FD-2000 over established rivals confirms the rapid technical improvement and competitiveness of China's missile and aerospace sector.Chinese military experts say the system performed well in live tests for the Turkish Defence Ministry.
For China, Turkey missile deal a victory even if it doesn't happen | Reuters
