T-84 oplot M fails testing what now for the army, in terms of tanks?

[S.U.R.B.]

Wanna watch another one?

Cool eh?

 

[ARTE]

Oplets were put into a strong field trials against Western tanks like Leopard 2A6, Leclerc in Turkey. Turkish officials know the minues/plus sides of Oplets. Altay is the product of such field experiences gained on those trials.

I am going to share the images of Oplets fielded in Turkey.

Oplet and Leo

Oplet, Leo and Leclerc in winter trials in Turkey

Oplet

no, this YATAGAN

 

[waz]

T-84 and Oplot are different animals ... T-84 = our UDs..

Here is a pic of T-84 and Oplot:

View attachment 237081 View attachment 237082 View attachment 237083 View attachment 237084


Now coming back to AK -- did you ever count facts like our fiscal constraints ?

Yes Abram was operated in Iraq but do you think the soil here is similiar to Iraq ?

Have you not learnt a lesson from India's stupidity ... Apart from its flawed design,obsolete gun and other issues.. Another issue that india has faced with Arjun is deployment.. The rail networks can't transport it.. The bridges can't carry it ...etx etc...


Oplot is a good choice (which I have been barking since yesterday) because 60% of it would be produced in Pak... It will save us the logistical and training nightmare thanks to UD's! It will replace our fleet of obsolete tanks.. It's cheaper at 6 million (give or take)... It will save us valuable time... Which we don't have.

Coming to Altay .. It's a heavier tank (not suitable for us)... It's still years from induction (than Turkey will definetly equip its own forces first).. It's still very much under development... It would burden AK project.. Create logistic,training issues... It will be a time consuming affair...etc etc.


Oplot would suppliment our fleet it would save us not only previous time,logistic and training hassles,will give us flexibility,quick replacement of old tanks .. It would be more affordable etc etc etc! It will not be at the cost of AK project ! It is still a superior tank as compared to anything our enemy possesses!

Get Oplots with TOT.. Develop AK ... That's the best deal possible... But still we can collaborate with Turkey on further variants of AK ... What more do you want!

I did mention that the model in the trials was an older variant, it's in the post after. The fact still remains that its baseline predecessor did not perform well, so the issue arises on how much you can upgrade/modify in order to bring up to par with other tanks.
I have counted in fiscal traits, and I'm not saying we abandon this tank, it's just that we should look elsewhere and run another acquisition.
Going back to the Abrams, you'd be surprised to see how similar the fine grain sand dunes and top soils found in Iraq are to our Thar desert.
You are right about the logistics and ease of integration, I'm with you on that and it will serve our purpose well.
The heaviness of the Altay only becomes an issue with transportation, and that's over long distances. If it is stationed at the front, behind the canals, irrigation ditches and various natural barriers it would be a serious force multiplier,and to invest in the necessary infrastructure to give us an huge edge is a small opportunity cost, the same applies to time, training etc. The tank is scheduled for full operational service in 2018, that's not long away and the development phase is over. It's undergoing extensive trials. What you will see now is improvements.
The AK can continue or maybe we could like you said see a fusion between the two.
Anyway, there is already an Altay thread going on and the two tanks are very different. This machine is being evaluated for the numbers and ease of induction. The Altay fits into a different category.

Anyway, this is just an evaluation at this point in time and the thread should be devoted to the OPLOT.

 

[cabatli_53]

So why so many years passed and they relay on foreign (now it is Byelorussia)? Now they can not buy anything in Ukr, cause of war. Of course Rus is very powerful country, but in certain matter of design and technology they still are not achieved level of Ukr, in spite of hundred times more defense spending.

My friend, What you claimed on matters as a defficiency of Russian industry, is being developed in Turkey around 15 years ago. I mean Those are not space technology that A country like Russia lacks behind of Ukraine or any other country. The effectiveness is another issue to talk...

I don't have deep information about Soviet based technologies but I am just trying to understand some wierd points(From my percpective) with pointing out some lights to incidents...

-What they have revealed under the name of RELIKT is being developed to replace well-known Kontakt-5 modules.
-What they have developed as Kalina FCS is being claimed as an equal FCS of western systems.
-As far as I know, What they have offered as active protection system is the first one of the World along with Israeli one which is being used by own tanks actively.
-Their situation awareness systems to be used on T-90's looks similar to What West is applying to their tanks.

In this circumstances, Claiming that Ukraine is ahead of Russia on many fields despite hundreds of times more defence spending looks strange to me from many sides.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

I did mention that the model in the trials was an older variant, it's in the post after. The fact still remains that its baseline predecessor did not perform well, so the issue arises on how much you can upgrade/modify in order to bring up to par with other tanks.
I have counted in fiscal traits, and I'm not saying we abandon this tank, it's just that we should look elsewhere and run another acquisition.
Going back to the Abrams, you'd be surprised to see how similar the fine grain sand dunes and top soils found in Iraq are to our Thar desert.
You are right about the logistics and ease of integration, I'm with you on that and it will serve our purpose well.
The heaviness of the Altay only becomes an issue with transportation, and that's over long distances. If it is stationed at the front, behind the canals, irrigation ditches and various natural barriers it would be a serious force multiplier,and to invest in the necessary infrastructure to give us an huge edge is a small opportunity cost, the same applies to time, training etc. The tank is scheduled for full operational service in 2018, that's not long away and the development phase is over. It's undergoing extensive trials. What you will see now is improvements.
The AK can continue or maybe we could like you said see a fusion between the two.
Anyway, there is already an Altay thread going on and the two tanks are very different. This machine is being evaluated for the numbers and ease of induction. The Altay fits into a different category.

Anyway, this is just an evaluation at this point in time and the thread should be devoted to the OPLOT.

Makes no sense ... Why induct 3 types of tanks?

Develop AK !

Get the Oplots - replace old death traps ASAP with a quality tank with local production ... Why wait years for a heavier tank that is of no use ... When we can develop our own AK !


P.S: one in hand is always better than two in the bush!

 

[Andrei_bt]

In this circumstances, Claiming that Ukraine is ahead of Russia on many fields despite hundreds of times more defence spending looks strange to me from many sides.

Ready to agree if you explain why Rus are not developed they own sights for their primary tanks and ATGM like T-90MS and Khrizantema and use Byelorussian and Ukr instead.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Ready to agree if you explain why Rus are not developed they own sights for their primary tanks and ATGM like T-90MS and Khrizantema and use Byelorussian and Ukr instead.

You are also on that crappy ind forum .. Happy to see you posting here .. Anyways welcome to PDF my frnd.

no, this YATAGAN

Welcome .. Damm it's raining Ukranians today ..

 

[Andrei_bt]

My friend, What you claimed on matters as a defficiency of
-What they have revealed under the name of RELIKT is being developed to replace well-known Kontakt-5 modules.
-What they have developed as Kalina FCS is being claimed as an equal FCS of western systems.
-As far as I know, What they have offered as active protection system is the first one of the World along with Israeli one which is being used by own tanks actively.
-Their situation awareness systems to be used on T-90's looks similar to What West is applying to their tanks.
.

- it provides protection against M829A2 from 1,5 km distance.

Ukr ERA called Duplet protects from 100 m range from all 120 mm APFSDS

-Kalina FCS includes both gunner and commander sights designed in foreign country - belorussia.

- also Ukr offered active protection system and no single tank in servise in Russia has APS, they remained in Ukrainian territory. This is T-80UD (T-84), like Pakistani ones with APS -

Also ne ones are availible -

- Situation awareness systems to be used on T-90's looks similar to What West is applying to their tanks?
What do you mean ? Unlike T-90SM Oplot has panoramic commander sight wiht visual channel, maybe 4 chienise TV cameras make tank Situation awareness drasticly better )))

 

[Armstrong]

@Andrei_bt - Are you Ukrainian ?

 

[cabatli_53]

Ready to agree if you explain why Rus are not developed they own sights for their primary tanks and ATGM like T-90MS and Khrizantema and use Byelorussian and Ukr instead.

My friend, It is Russian members that should enlighten the thread regarding Russian capabilities regarding thermals and their abilities. What I can point out is the general things and some critical subsystems/components and countries having capabilities of production such critical subsystems.

For that purposes, I can list you tens of thermal sight producers for tanks, helicopters, ships from all around the World including Russia and Ukraine but A few of them controls the critical components whose exportations are restricted in accordance with governmental permissions of 3rd countries. Cause of that fact, I can easily say that Noone of Ukraine and Russia can't produce own 2nd and 3rd gneration thermal detectors and have to order from abroad. India is also able to produce complete thermal sight systems but have to order detectors from French like countries so Nothing special to build a block of thermal sights for rifles, tanks. Don't forget that We are talking about Russia. Russia is also doing What Ukraine does in thermal sight sector but As I said Noone of you produce critical subcomponents (If nothing changed within 2-3 years).

Indian thermal sight housing SAGEM detectors

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Too much patriotism and too little common sense.
Done here, for real now.

actually Indians are also member of SCO but is now the largest importer of western technology in defence. SCO as of now isnt like NATO who has a joint command and armed forces of its own.

 

[Andrei_bt]

@Andrei_bt - Are you Ukrainian ?

yes

My friend, It is Russian members that should enlighten the thread regarding Russian capabilities regarding thermals and their abilities.

Show any on serial produced tank, as I said, not promo exebition single produced ones.
As you know T-90MS features belorussian Sosna - U GPS anf Eagle eye commander sight, also belorussian design.

 

[cabatli_53]

-Kalina FCS includes both gunner and commander sights designed in foreign country - belorussia.

Do you have a source regarding that ? If Russia can't develop such basic things from sights to FCS like You claimed, What's the reason of countries all around the world ordering such big portion of land vehicle from Russia, While Ukraine is staying next to them ?

 

[Armstrong]

yes

Welcome to the forum, brother !

Our prayers are with the Ukrainian people for a swift end to the separatist insurgency brewing in Eastern-Ukraine so that Ukraine can find herself back on to the path of peace and prosperity.

 

[Andrei_bt]

Do you have a source regarding that ? If Russia can't develop such basic things from sights to FCS like You claimed, What's the reason of countries all around the world ordering such big portion of land vehicle from Russia, While Ukraine is staying next to them ?

It is basically known facts, as the Earth rotates around the Sun, anyway Google or any other search engine may help.

SOSNA-U

Panorama Eagle Eye


I do not say it is bad
To by anything foreign,
But it is not Ukraine which buys sights from Russia, actually Russia did.
So it is not correct to say Rus with T-980MS has any achievements.

Welcome to the forum, brother !

Our prayers are with the Ukrainian people for a swift end to the separatist insurgency brewing in Eastern-Ukraine so that Ukraine can find herself back on to the path of peace and prosperity.

Thanks for this words dear friend, hope we will find peace in the Ukraine as soon as possible and for common prosperity.