T-80 and T-84 Main Battle Tanks Information pool

[Signalian]

Yes a variant with note in common with 84 than T-80.. Be it the gun,FCS,turret,era etc..

As for the old tanks... Isn't that why PA is testing T-99A2,MBT-3000,Oplot M etc!

T-84 is modernization of T-80 UD. T-80 UD developed from T-80 and stands between T-80 and T-84, as T-84 came later on.T-84 was further developed into Oplot etc.
The basic difference of T-80 and T-80 UD is the diesel engine and T-80UD shares most of the T-80U's improvements, but can be distinguished from it by a different engine deck and distinctive smoke-mortar array and turret stowage boxes.

Replacing 1000 tanks is not a quick process. Even if T-99, Al haider etc is procured, it may take upto a decade to replace older tanks. A readily available option is T-80 in reserves with Russia. These can be acquired and then upgraded to PA T-80 UD standard. Upgrading a tank already in use is still faster as seen in the case of AZ rather than inducting new tanks in small batches as per factory output over a long period of time and then train crews on it. and Yeah AZ will also need to be replaced after the T-59 series are retired though not in near future.

Secondly, if a war erupts,the option of faster addition of T-80 to add a punch to PA armour seems better rather than bring M-48 or T-59 from reserves to life in 2015 onwards and make up for losses. M-48 and older T-59 will find it tough to take on IA T-72/90. The Chinese T-90/96 is in service with PLA on which AK is based, so AK losses wont be replaced easily during the war. T-80 is an option that PA should always keep in hand.

The best that PA has is around 1000-1300 AK, AZ and T-80 UD.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

T-84 is modernization of T-80 UD. T-80 UD developed from T-80 and stands between T-80 and T-84, as T-84 came later on.T-84 was further developed into Oplot etc.
The basic difference of T-80 and T-80 UD is the diesel engine and T-80UD shares most of the T-80U's improvements, but can be distinguished from it by a different engine deck and distinctive smoke-mortar array and turret stowage boxes.

Not really kiddo.. The welded turret,KBA3 main gun,knife ERA,FCS,engine,composite and other armour in cavities n hill,secondary MGs, remote controlled HMG..etc all are different... The FCS used in the T-80UD (back than was the same one used by T-90)... etc etc!

... You can "Google"... Apart from that the T-80UDs were further upgraded by Pak... You can browse this thread for more..


Also kiddo Pak had originally bought T-80Us not the basic T-80 model... After Russia's cribbing all Russian equipment was replaced with (element/systems/armour/gun) of the T-84 program !

Replacing 1000 tanks is not a quick process. Even if T-99, Al haider etc is procured, it may take upto a decade to replace older tanks. A readily available option is T-80 in reserves with Russia. These can be acquired and then upgraded to PA T-80 UD standard. Upgrading a tank already in use is still faster as seen in the case of AZ rather than inducting new tanks in small batches as per factory output over a long period of time and then train crews on it. and Yeah AZ will also need to be replaced after the T-59 series are retired though not in near future.

Secondly, if a war erupts,the option of faster addition of T-80 to add a punch to PA armour seems better rather than bring M-48 or T-59 from reserves to life in 2015 onwards and make up for losses. M-48 and older T-59 will find it tough to take on IA T-72/90. The Chinese T-90/96 is in service with PLA on which AK is based, so AK losses wont be replaced easily during the war. T-80 is an option that PA should always keep in hand.

The best that PA has is around 1000-1300 AK, AZ and T-80 UD.

Thanks for the advice.. I'm sure PA guys aren't sleeping.. Nor does it take a decade to actually get 1000 tanks ... Even AK has a production rate of around 40-50 annually.. Which was "stalled" by financial crisis in the past.

And nobody want dead beat T-80s... That's why they were testing new tanks.. Instead of getting more from Russian junkyards.


P.S; as if right now India has around 499-500 T-90s, & 1900 T-72s (only a few of them being upgraded with new imagery systems - as far as I know)...

 

[Signalian]

Not really kiddo.. The welded turret,KBA3 main gun,knife ERA,FCS,engine,composite and other armour in cavities n hill,secondary MGs, remote controlled HMG..etc all are different... The FCS used in the T-80UD (back than was the same one used by T-90)... etc etc!

... You can "Google"... Apart from that the T-80UDs were further upgraded by Pak... You can browse this thread for more..

Kiddo? i dont know why the senior member here thinks that newer members are kids. what sense do you get out of it discussion when you try to make it personal?

lets clear somethings out; senior in posts doesnt mean that the other member is younger to you in age. secondly, making it personal only gives an impression that you lack substance on the topic so are using cheap ways to convey your point.

I suggest you refrain from these ineffective tactics during our discussion and stop derailing it..

coming back to some sensible discussion now.

I did google and replied to you through online research. T-80 acquired from Russia can be upgraded by Pakistan and if this thread also holds that information just validates my already explained point.

Also kiddo Pak had originally bought T-80Us not the basic T-80 model... After Russia's cribbing all Russian equipment was replaced with (element/systems/armour/gun) of the T-84 program !

Russia also doesnt hold all basic models in reserve, but if it does hold just basic models, this gives PA more room to play around with upgrades. Just like i have mentioned before, PA modifies most of the standard weapons and equipment it acquires. i have already given example of AZ upgrade of T-59.

Thanks for the advice.. I'm sure PA guys aren't sleeping.. Nor does it take a decade to actually get 1000 tanks ... Even AK has a production rate of around 40-50 annually.. Which was "stalled" by financial crisis in the past.

And nobody want dead beat T-80s... That's why they were testing new tanks.. Instead of getting more from Russian junkyards.

There is difference between an advise and suggestion, lol, i suggest you to google the difference. This is a discussion forum where the opinions are freely expressed and FYI, PA doesnt need to look here to wake or sleep on its decisions although that doesnt stop anyone from expressing views here.

You have yourself given an example the stalling of induction of AK's in PA which i will quote as an example that inducting 1000 tanks can take upto 10 years. Its better to take risk factor in account and be prepared for unforeseen circumstances

P.S; as if right now India has around 499-500 T-90s, & 1900 T-72s (only a few of them being upgraded with new imagery systems - as far as I know)...

what you fail to realise is the depth in IA armour. Im not going to bloat on IA arnour, but quantity can take over quality.

lastly, i think i have repeated most of my points with reference from previous posts. i would appreciate if u come up with new points to take this discussion further on otherwise repeating some points portrays not budging from a stance.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Kiddo? i dont know why the senior member here thinks that newer members are kids. what sense do you get out of it discussion when you try to make it personal?

lets clear somethings out; senior in posts doesnt mean that the other member is younger to you in age. secondly, making it personal only gives an impression that you lack substance on the topic so are using cheap ways to convey your point.

I suggest you refrain from these ineffective tactics during our discussion and stop derailing it..

coming back to some sensible discussion now.

I did google and replied to you through online research. T-80 acquired from Russia can be upgraded by Pakistan and if this thread also holds that information just validates my already explained point.

And that research led to to claim that T-80UD were T-80s with T-80U improvements? That's a lot of research ... Just baseless claims.

Russia also doesnt hold all basic models in reserve, but if it does hold just basic models, this gives PA more room to play around with upgrades. Just like i have mentioned before, PA modifies most of the standard weapons and equipment it acquires. i have already given example of AZ upgrade of T-59.

And why did PA upgrade em to AZ status?

And why would PA spend hundreds of millions on useless junkyard tanks to replace their turrets,FCS,guns,armour,imagery systems,Jammers,Laser warning systems,auto loaders etc etc .. And yet get a 2nd tier tank.

Instead of buying new generation tanks?

You have yourself given an example the stalling of induction of AK's in PA which i will quote as an example that inducting 1000 tanks can take upto 10 years. Its better to take risk factor in account and be prepared for unforeseen circumstances

Yet somehow buying 3rd grade tanks,upgrading them may not face such hurdles? Aren't they more prone to Fuk ups than buying newer n advanced tanks to begin with!

what you fail to realise is the depth in IA armour. Im not going to bloat on IA arnour, but quantity can take over quality

.

Night blind T-72s with bursting barrels n low penetration ammo or 124 "Arjuns" is hardly quality.. The only tanks which are worth it are the T-90s.. Which also face AK's & UDs..

For t-72s... AZ's & T-85 & 90s are enough for the time being.. (Till they are replaced by a new tank -- and AKII comes online).

 

[Signalian]

And that research led to to claim that T-80UD were T-80s with T-80U improvements? That's a lot of research ... Just baseless claims.

Thats your baseless assumption. Read again what i wrote in previous posts.

And why did PA upgrade em to AZ status?

Already explained.Read again what i wrote in previous posts

And why would PA spend hundreds of millions on useless junkyard tanks to replace their turrets,FCS,guns,armour,imagery systems,Jammers,Laser warning systems,auto loaders etc etc .. And yet get a 2nd tier tank.

Instead of buying new generation tanks?

already explained.Read again what i wrote in previous posts

Yet somehow buying 3rd grade tanks,upgrading them may not face such hurdles? Aren't they more prone to Fuk ups than buying newer n advanced tanks to begin with!

A third grade tank would be a T-59, not a T-80. Each and every tank in PA inventory has been upgraded from its basic form.

Night blind T-72s with bursting barrels n low penetration ammo or 124 "Arjuns" is hardly quality.. The only tanks which are worth it are the T-90s.. Which also face AK's & UDs..

For t-72s... AZ's & T-85 & 90s are enough for the time being.. (Till they are replaced by a new tank -- and AKII comes online).

Under estimating enemy is your own opinion which i dont agree with.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Thats your baseless assumption. Read again what i wrote in previous posts.


Already explained.Read again what i wrote in previous posts


already explained.Read again what i wrote in previous posts

Quoted you below.

A third grade tank would be a T-59, not a T-80. Each and every tank in PA inventory has been upgraded from its basic form.

That's why T-59s is being phased out with a new tank.. While you are stuck with your t-80 !

Under estimating enemy is your own opinion which i dont agree with.

I'm not underestimating nobody ! But do tell us about the "quality" you were harping about.




....your useless and incorrect "research".

T-84 is modernization of T-80 UD. T-80 UD developed from T-80 and stands between T-80 and T-84, as T-84 came later on.T-84 was further developed into Oplot etc.
The basic difference of T-80 and T-80 UD is the diesel engine and T-80UD shares most of the T-80U's improvements, but can be distinguished from it by a different engine deck and distinctive smoke-mortar array and turret stowage boxes.

Replacing 1000 tanks is not a quick process. Even if T-99, Al haider etc is procured, it may take upto a decade to replace older tanks. A readily available option is T-80 in reserves with Russia. These can be acquired and then upgraded to PA T-80 UD standard. Upgrading a tank already in use is still faster as seen in the case of AZ rather than inducting new tanks in small batches as per factory output over a long period of time and then train crews on it. and Yeah AZ will also need to be replaced after the T-59 series are retired though not in near future.

Secondly, if a war erupts,the option of faster addition of T-80 to add a punch to PA armour seems better rather than bring M-48 or T-59 from reserves to life in 2015 onwards and make up for losses. M-48 and older T-59 will find it tough to take on IA T-72/90. The Chinese T-90/96 is in service with PLA on which AK is based, so AK losses wont be replaced easily during the war. T-80 is an option that PA should always keep in hand.

The best that PA has is around 1000-1300 AK, AZ and T-80 UD.

Please stop acting smart .. Think before you post.

 

[Signalian]

Please stop acting smart .. Think before you post.

Mate, personal assumptions will get you nowhere. There is nothing wrong what i wrote.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Mate, personal assumptions will get you nowhere. There is nothing wrong what i wrote.

Really? Here is the reality... The first freakin page of this thread... Or even the pic of UD vs T-80 or T-80U

T-80 and T-84 Main Battle Tanks Information pool

Guess you need more "research".

 

[punit]

hmm so after the ground braeking sale of SU 35 to Pakistan .. russia gonna sale T90s MBT TO Pakistan as well !

 

[Signalian]

Really? Here is the reality... The first freakin page of this thread... Or even the pic of UD vs T-80 or T-80U

T-80 and T-84 Main Battle Tanks Information pool

Guess you need more "research".

Mate i have seen them already and gone through this topic. You have no logical or technical or sensible replies to the points i had put forward regarding induction of reserve T80 from Russian and the discussion you had put forward, i have effectively replied it and now it has come down to T-80,T84,T-80U,T-80UD,Oplot...which I have also already explained to you, if you cant comprehend a simple thing, there is no use dragging this on in loops.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Mate i have seen them already and gone through this topic. You have no logical or technical or sensible replies to the points i had put forward regarding induction of reserve T80 from Russian and the discussion you had put forward, i have effectively replied it and now it has come down to T-80,T84,T-80U,T-80UD,Oplot...which I have also already explained to you, if you cant comprehend a simple thing, there is no use dragging this on in loops.

A) Ive already explained why junkyard T-80s are useless.

B)I've already showed you.. Your mistake regarding UD being ab improved T-80 with T-80U improvements..

C)Stop arguing for the sake of it.

 

[Dazzler]

At the most basic level, the soviet/ Russian version was the refinement of object 219, commonly known as the T-80, while the Ukrainians were tasked with the diesel version of this variant. Later, the Kharkov plant took a much different route with indigenous improvements to armour, FCS, apu, engine/ transmission, main gun, ammo and even optics were improved, replaced.

The resulting tank was named as Object 478, while the Pakistani version is a further refinement of the said tank, the object 478BE. A word of advice, the t-80 has many variants much like the t-72/90. So it would be better to do some serious research before sharing false information that is widespread on the internet.

 

[Dazzler]

SHIBLI ELECTRONICS has been awarded a major contract for the UPGRADATION OF Eighty Eight “T-80 UD” Tanks 125mm with the Night Firing Systems. With Integration & Incorporation of the system, these main Battle will have full operational night capability. The Signing Ceremony of the contract was held in CWO Headquarter. -


See more at: Shibli | Subject: Contract for the up-gradation of T -80 UD with Catherine FC Systems

 

[Windjammer]

Pakistan defence electronics company SHIBLI ELECTRONICS has been awarded a major contract for the UPGRADATION OF Eighty Eight “T-80 UD” Tanks 125mm guns with the Night Firing Systems. With Integration & Incorporation of the system, these main Battle will have full operational night capability.
There are total 320 T-80UD tanks active in service with Pakistan Amy while remaining fleet will also be upgraded.

 

[Indus Falcon]

what you fail to realise is the depth in IA armour. Im not going to bloat on IA arnour, but quantity can take over quality.

You must realize something,

1) The offensive armour is always at a disadvantage, simply because it is exposed.

2) Armour does not necessarily need armour to defeat it. Anti-tank rockets / missiles can be sufficient to a very great extent.