Syrian Civil War (Graphic Photos/Vid Not Allowed)

[Falcon29]

@al-Hasani

It's not about posing imminent threat to their interests. It's that it's the first time determined Sunni Islamists assumed control over an Arab nation, Islamists that armed. It is all about interests, they want influence in Syria probably for reasons like combatting Russia, if a post Assad Syrian state assumes control over the naval bases and waters US would want to deploy to counter Russian presence but also pipeline interests and a bunch of other things. Like that most people will favor becoming self sufficient.
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Read this also:

The way it looks, ISIS and rebel groups may have to cooperate if they were to launch offensives on Hama/Homs. ISIS is east of both cities, and then even further east is in process of offensive on Palmyra. If it takes over Palmyra and Arak it can send reinforcements further West to assist its members in northeast of Homs and can launch offensive unto Homs from the southwest. But it also can cut off supply lines for SAA in Aleppo and this will mean rebels in Aleppo will close in on remaining SAA presence.

By the time they manage that taking over Palmyra(if they do), rebels in north would be launching offensive on Latakia and coming close to Hama as well. If they work quickly in the next month, you never know they can turn this around very quickly. It seems like they're only making gains recently.

So while it is controversial, it is defintely in the interests of the rebel groups to cooperate with ISIS.

 

[IR-TR]

Of course a ground invasion is needed but even the aerial bombardments have been irregular and ineffective. The initiative to truly defeat ISIS is obviously not there whatever the reasons might be.

No doubt that USA and the Iranian regime are both not interested in hegemony in the MENA region and sorry to say but if the Arab Sunnis united or had rulers who largely spoke in the same tongue that would be the case. From Mauritania to Oman. Simply due to sheer numbers, resources, land area, strategic importance, economy etc. The GCC alone has an economy that is 2 times as big as Iran-Turkey combined.

I don't know if those "Islamist" (I am always cautious about groups that claim to be so) groups are the main problem here. Outside of ISIS and Al-Nusra that is. I think they know very well that those other groups are mostly regular Sunni Arab Syrians who have taken up arms during a civil war and that most Syrians do not want to create or imitate ISIS in Northern Iraq in terms of system.

It really is confusing. Of course it all comes down to money, power and influence.

Think about it. You are an American, European, Israeli or just a person that has no ties to the ME. Why should you care about the ME just because of a few wars (that are yet to cost the live of 500.000 people in total since the Arab Spring) when you look the other way when millions of Africans and South Asians (in total) die of famine each decade? It's just an example.

Why not play all the sides against each other (or at least be passive when that happens while pretending to want the best for the region) if that benefits you economically and politically?

The US and the powers don't really care about civilians and their suffering anywhere. At least not in Syria as seen since 2011.

There is no other solution than locals being masters in their own lands. I don't know how this can happen truly with this status quo, those rulers (almost everyone of them are bad and more interested in staying in power) but either way (regardless of rulers) this must happen and then the cooperation with the world powers might occur on a more equal footing.

I really don't know.



Is that you Salman?

There is nothing to know. You've hit the nail on the head, except you don't know their end game. Their end game IS partition, it IS the redrawing of Sykes-Picot. Surely not by sending ground troops themselves, that would UNITE muslims and Arabs, but by lighting a sectarian fire. Ya'Allah kill the Ya'Ali's and the other way around. If you look in Iraq for example, you can cleary see the US' 'red lines' (not allowing ISIS to penetrate Kurdish regions, not allowing ISIS to penetrate Shia regions, and not allowing the Shia to gain too much control in Sunni regions. Same for Kurdish regions (they have just taken Kirkuk away, with a HUGE Arab population).

Now I woke up when I heard an interview of Assad (you won't like that, but wait). He said the US has a 5 times bigger air force than me in the region. Hypermodern planes etc. The SyAAF conducts around 100 airstrikes per day, the US about 10. SPLIT betwee Iraq and Syria. That got me thinking and reading. It's all between the lines. The US can pound Daesh into sumbission in mere days. Same for Assad. But hell, just keep the sectarian lines even and divided, and only bomb them when those lines are crossed.

 

[Falcon29]

Why you support this criminal secular arab nationalist regime

You revolted against secular nationalist dictator shah who was less evil than al Assad and you fought 8 years against the Baathist regime in Iraq but you support this genocidal regime in Syria????!!

If this is you Salman, good for you brother.

We Arabs are all one, I hope your opinion changes on Syrian conflict, it's welcoming.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

My question is, why your opinion changes every once in a while? I don't remember you ever opposing Assad. One day you insult Saudis, then you have choose Abdullah for your avatar and now this.

And about Assad, he's just a person, it's not about Assad. I have gone through the same conversation hundreds of times, I don't want to discuss that again. So for this part, let's just agree to disagree.

Just say it like it is. You support Al-Assad because he is pro-Iran and because supporting him suits the interests of your regime/country and people more than doing the opposite. You can say the same about Arab actions the other way around, Israel, USA etc.

You now already deep down inside that supporting Al-Assad is not the "moral" thing to do and that he and his regime have killed many more people and civilians than ISIS have done. Or any other party.

Just like I know that the war in Yemen is creating big hardship for the civilian population in Yemen and that the House of Saud are likely looking the other way but only caring about their goals.

Just like the Mullah's who torture Iranian dissidents to death in the prisons of Iran.

In Europe, Europeans regardless of nationality, religion, sect, political views (ideologies) have developed the ability to distinguish between right and wrong. That's why they are the first people out on the streets whenever they see injustice committed by not only THEIR own but others too.

They learned it the hard way because they killed 50 million (!) of each other just between WW1 and WW2.

Before the people of the ME/Muslim world/third world does not develop a similar ability this region will remain a mess simply because we are doing wrong-doings while knowing it.

Injustice is the key word here.

If this is you Salman, good for you brother.

We Arabs are all one, I hope your opinion changes on Syrian conflict, it's welcoming.

Yes and I hope that he realizes that Arabs that are anti-Iranian regime are not out there to behead Twelver Shia's. In such a case there would not be more Shias in the Arab world than anywhere else on the planet. For God's sake even in KSA alone there are 3 million or so Shias. The numbers might even be bigger than that.

 

[SALMAN F]

If this is you Salman, good for you brother.

We Arabs are all one, I hope your opinion changes on Syrian conflict, it's welcoming.

You know and I told you before I am not with al Assad

 

[Falcon29]

You know and I told you before I am not with al Assad

I don't remember, I think you might of told it to Hasani. But now I know, good on you.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

Also we should not abuse Islam and religion in general and pretend that it has any role to play. I don't recall Islam saying anything about a "Shia" or "Sunni" sect, or anything about killing civilians, supporting corrupt regimes, using Islam as a political instrument to suppress people etc. Those are not Islamic values. I don't recall Islam teaching its followers to destroy ancient historical monuments or too worship people based on ancestry. I don't recall Islam wanting to create a social class (Mullah's, Sheikhs) etc. but to create equality and justice to all mankind.

Why are those regimes and their supporters lying to themselves and pretending that their respective regimes/rulers are bastions of their favorite Islamic sect x or y?

In reality the "real" Muslims (there I said is, maybe I am a real Takfiri, lol) are the ordinary people, nowadays mostly the older generation, that is living according to the most important values in Islam. Not making a fuss.

For sure as hell not the filthy rich and corrupt rulers of the ME and their little families. Don't even get me started. In this age and day you can see how the sons and daughters of those people behave due to the media and internet.

I suggest to the Arab speakers here to google the names of relatives of those Shia Clerics, of the Saudi Ulama (Al aal-Sheikh family) and you will find their sons and daughters based in the West partying. No joke.

It's time to say no and remove yourself from all this that you have nothing to do with as an individual person.

That has nothing to do with your country, lands, people, religion, ideologies etc.

I stand behind my people and lands but to pretend and spend your time defending the indefensible is beyond silly. I am in my early 20's but I sure as hell hope that I won't end up as the likes of Hussein and many other users on PDF who still in their 30,'s, 40's are carbon copies of their teenage years. Not even realizing that they are small dots in a bigger play and who are not even ready to challenge status quo for the better.

Many posts at once even for me.

@SALMAN AL-FARSI I am interested in hearing your opinion about the situation in the region (the real one as you see it not the one that you want to see or tells us about due to ideology/politics) etc. as most people here do.

@IR-TR

I don't know if I agree with that conclusion. I mean what is the difference for the US whether Iraq becomes divided into 3 parts or Syria into 3? Or if it stays status quo? KRG in Northern Iraq is already de facto independent. I think it is all about money, power and political interests regardless of borders drawn.

Same with sects. Most outsiders could care less and have no clue. You have no idea how incompetent so-called American experts (the world superpower with the best universities on the planet) were on the makeup of the Iraqi society during and A LONG time after the Iraqi occupation. Granted that Iraq is a complicated country but this should say it all.

At the end of the day, which is something that I have always said, it's about becoming more self-sufficient and becoming masters in your own lands. That's why I believe that cooperation between Arabs for instance is crucial to tackle the problems in the Arab world while others here (due to sectarian views, politics) want their own way or the highway. Of course the end goal is an ME in the mould of Europe as we see today where common values, security and economy is more important than sect and nationality in the greater picture.

 

[IR-TR]

Also we should not abuse Islam and religion in general and pretend that it has any role to play. I don't recall Islam saying anything about a "Shia" or "Sunni" sect, or anything about killing civilians, supporting corrupt regimes, using Islam as a political instrument to suppress people etc. Those are not Islamic values. I don't recall Islam teaching its followers to destroy ancient historical monuments or too worship people based on ancestry. I don't recall Islam wanting to create a social class (Mullah's, Sheikhs) etc. but to create equality and justice to all mankind.

Why are those regimes and their supporters lying to themselves and pretending that their respective regimes/rulers are bastions of their favorite Islamic sect x or y?

In reality the "real" Muslims (there I said is, maybe I am a real Takfiri, lol) are the ordinary people, nowadays mostly the older generation, that is living according to the most important values in Islam. Not making a fuss.

For sure as hell not the filthy rich and corrupt rulers of the ME and their little families. Don't even get me started. In this age and day you can see how the sons and daughters of those people behave due to the media and internet.

I suggest to the Arab speakers here to google the names of relatives of those Shia Clerics, of the Saudi Ulama (Al aal-Sheikh family) and you will find their sons and daughters based in the West partying. No joke.

It's time to say no and remove yourself from all this that you have nothing to do with as an individual person.

That has nothing to do with your country, lands, people, religion, ideologies etc.

I stand behind my people and lands but to pretend and spend your time defending the indefensible is beyond silly. I am in my early 20's but I sure as hell hope that I won't end up as the likes of Hussein and many other users on PDF who still in their 30,'s, 40's are carbon copies of their teenage years. Not even realizing that they are small dots in a bigger play and who are not even ready to challenge status quo for the better.

Many posts at once even for me.

@SALMAN AL-FARSI I am interested in hearing your opinion about the situation in the region (the real one as you see it not the one that you want to see or tells us about due to ideology/politics) etc. as most people here do.

@IR-TR

I don't know if I agree with that conclusion. I mean what is the difference for the US whether Iraq becomes divided into 3 parts or Syria into 3? Or if it stays status quo? KRG in Northern Iraq is already de facto independent. I think it is all about money, power and political interests regardless of borders drawn.

Same with sects. Most outsiders could care less and have no clue. You have no idea how incompetent so-called American experts (the world superpower with the best universities on the planet) were on the makeup of the Iraqi society during and A LONG time after the Iraqi occupation. Granted that Iraq is a complicated country but this should say it all.

At the end of the day, which is something that I have always said, it's about becoming more self-sufficient and becoming masters in your own lands. That's why I believe that cooperation between Arabs for instance is crucial to tackle the problems in the Arab world while others here (due to sectarian views, politics) want their own way or the highway. Of course the end goal is an ME in the mould of Europe as we see today where common values, security and economy is more important than sect and nationality in the greater picture.

http://www.aljazeerah.info/images/2013/July/10 p/The Project for the New Middle East.jpg

Here you go. Now tell me, for a foreign power which is easier to control. The current situation with a strong Iran and Turkey and GCC, or just little sh!t states. The sects are a way of achieving that map. Unless you think 2 million US soldiers will step in and enforce that map. They just incite sectarianism, and the rest of the plan falls in motion. Geographically divided sects fight each other, large states get broken up, and you aid from the air. That's it. Master in our own lands? This way there will be no more 'our' lands. I would even agree on uniting Arabs, as long as that didn't mean oppressing minorities and attacking non-Arab states.

Look at it this way, even Europe is not completely sovereign. The US has SO much influence there, it basically can disallow foreign policy initiatives of the Europeans. Germany would love to get very close with Russia, for security and economic reasons. The US would try everything in it's power to do that. And they're 'allies'. In our case that's 100x more apparent. Sometimes I think wtf, just let it happen. Some 20 years of heavy bloodshed, and then the region finally wears itself out and peace will become the norm again. What can you do, just get angry? Shout on a forum?

PS: Wtf happened to your tone

 

[Saif al-Arab]

http://www.aljazeerah.info/images/2013/July/10 p/The Project for the New Middle East.jpg

Here you go. Now tell me, for a foreign power which is easier to control. The current situation with a strong Iran and Turkey and GCC, or just little sh!t states. The sects are a way of achieving that map. Unless you think 2 million US soldiers will step in and enforce that map. They just incite sectarianism, and the rest of the plan falls in motion. Geographically divided sects fight each other, large states get broken up, and you aid from the air. That's it. Master in our own lands? This way there will be no more 'our' lands. I would even agree on uniting Arabs, as long as that didn't mean oppressing minorities and attacking non-Arab states.

Look at it this way, even Europe is not completely sovereign. The US has SO much influence there, it basically can disallow foreign policy initiatives of the Europeans. Germany would love to get very close with Russia, for security and economic reasons. The US would try everything in it's power to do that. And they're 'allies'. In our case that's 100x more apparent. Sometimes I think wtf, just let it happen. Some 20 years of heavy bloodshed, and then the region finally wears itself out and peace will become the norm again. What can you do, just get angry? Shout on a forum?

PS: Wtf happened to your tone

I have seen that map a few weeks after it was first created by some American years ago. The map has been discussed several times on this forum and others. The conclusion is that it's a map like any other and that it is unrealistic.

GCC, Egypt, Turkey, Iran etc. are not strong countries compared to the US, West or world powers. In fact if they really wanted it they could probably divide all of those countries and the locals would not be able to do anything.

I think we look at this differently. I see power, money, political interest, dependence, division etc. as goals of any world power (and outsider) in the MENA region. The nature of the borders (borders itself are unnatural and have changed 1000's of times throughout history and will change again IMO) is less relevant if you ask me. With the current borders or new ones the MENA region is already divided.

I know but at least Europeans are pretty much masters in their own lands.

Of course Europeans are also far from being united and are even more distinct than most ME people but you know what I meant. They are at least 80 years ahead of us politically speaking. That's translated to two generations.

What do you mean? I already wrote that my insults/countering of trolling is not personal. It's just an automatic reflex on PDF, lol. You don't really believe that I have a problem with the nationalities that I have discussed with? It's all about the individuals. I always openly said that I am against the Iranian regime but that I have nothing against the average Iranian (whether Persian, Azeri, Kurd, Arab, Baluch, Turkmen or whatever) as long as he is not anti-Arab because that means that he is anti-me and 450 million Arabs solely based on our race or nationality.

 

[IR-TR]

I have seen that map a few weeks after it was first created by some American years ago. The map has been discussed several times on this forum and others. The conclusion is that it's a map like any other and that it is unrealistic.

GCC, Egypt, Turkey, Iran etc. are not strong countries compared to the US, West or world powers. In fact if they really wanted it they could probably divide all of those countries and the locals would not be able to do anything.

I think we look at this differently. I see power, money, political interest, dependence, division etc. as goals of any world power (and outsider) in the MENA region. The nature of the borders (borders itself are unnatural and have changed 1000's of times throughout history and will change again IMO) is less relevant if you ask me. With the current borders or new ones the MENA region is already divided.

I know but at least Europeans are pretty much masters in their own lands.

Of course Europeans are also far from being united and are even more distinct than most ME people but you know what I meant. They are at least 80 years ahead of us politically speaking. That's translated to two generations.

What do you mean? I already wrote that my insults/countering of trolling is not personal. It's just an automatic reflex on PDF, lol. You don't really believe that I have a problem with the nationalities that I have discussed with? It's all about the individuals. I always openly said that I am against the Iranian regime but that I have nothing against the average Iranian (whether Persian, Azeri, Kurd, Arab, Baluch, Turkmen or whatever) as long as he is not anti-Arab because that means that he is anti-me and 450 million Arabs solely based on our race or nationality.

Yes I believe border matter, up and until regions are safe. As for Europe, I (and you) can get in our car and drive across Europe without a single person asking us, or customs official. The single thing giving us away is our license plates. But Europe is peaceful. These countries don't have any fights over anything, not even about natural resources. So lifting borders is no big deal. In the middle east that's different. Look at Kirkuk, if that becomes Kurdish, the Arabs in Iraq lose out on a LOT of oil. Same for some regions in Iran or Saudi Arabia. That's really what this map is all about. And the domination of Israel. IF the middle east was indeed like Europe, I'd say F borders. The money stays in the 'family'. And we take care of 'our own'. But that's not logical, and all that map achieves is perpetual hostility and the ability for foreigners to dominate us. You seem like an intelligent fellow and the same age I am. I think the only way to stave off foreign influence is to unite. And you know just like me, that includes Iran, just like in Europe it includes Slavic people or what have you. This region sadly is the world's wallet. That makes us a target and weak. We have the same concerns. So when we set aside all our 1500 year old bs, that might just be the best shot at peace and actual prosperity. Because once that liquid gold is gone, we'll be back te being cavemen, unless we invest wisely.

The real enemy is not our neighbor, but those afar. Heck, hopefully it'll happen in our lifetime, it surely won't in our parent's lifetime.

PS: the US congress just passed a bill allowing the direct arming of Kurds in Iraq. That could very well be interpreted as a big step towards independence. Giving them enough heavy arms, not just to hold off ISIS, but also the Iraqi government. Iraqi Arabs are LIVID about this.

 

[500]

And about Assad, he's just a person, it's not about Assad. I have gone through the same conversation hundreds of times, I don't want to discuss that again. So for this part, let's just agree to disagree.

Yep, regime is much more than one person Assad. Its huge corrupt torture machine with uncounted Mukhabarats and Shabihas. Maher Assad and Hafez Makhlouf have no less power than the giraffe itself.

 

[dearhypocrite]

Why you support Hezbollah and Assad Baathist regime??

he is an anti sunni, perhaps?

 

[United]

Assad the dog regime Chlorine gas attack on Mashmashan killing children and suffocating thousands.

 

[dearhypocrite]

Assad the dog regime Chlorine gas attack on Mashmashan killing children and suffocating thousands.

View attachment 222070

perhaps, to assad & regime supporters, that one at the above picture look like an injured isis or nusra terrorist

 

[Falcon29]

US air strike in Syria kills IS commander. Of course this happens when IS is making big gains near Palyrma and would have cut off SAA presence in Aleppo but also would have opened way for offensive on Homs/Hama.

US is directly aiding Syrian regime.