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Swat Operation II

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And what makes you think that I didn't do any research before questioning the top brass who shoved our country in for fighting someone else war and the results are right in front of us, we are on verge of destruction because of those few elite boots that decided our fate for their petty interests of money and power.

Well, that would be the fact that your material and arguments are really weak. The fight was not ‘someone else’s’ war anymore the day the first Al-Qaeda/Taliban militant stepped into our land. Then it became our war, and all their subsequent deeds should have made it amply clear, if there were any doubts in the first place, as to the fact that they are our enemies and their agendas have no place for Jinnah’s vision. I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again, you hate America more than you love Pakistan, which is why Pakistan’s sovereignty and well being is secondary in nature for you compared to defying or annoying the US.

You think that Pakistan joined the WoT for money and power? You’re wrong, simple as that. It is the duty of all the generals including Musharraf to defend the country’s sovereignty and stability. The tribes of FATA are not the only people who call Pakistan their home. Those with the burden of leadership also have to take into account the other 160 million Pakistanis who want to live a peaceful, respectable, enlightened life in freedom away from the likes of Al-Qaeda.

But you’re making very specific and explicit accusations. I respect Musharraf, but I can name a lot of his mistakes or shortcomings off the back of my head, you won’t find me agreeing with all of his decisions. However the notion that Musharraf and his top brass allied with the US instead of the Taliban just so that they can fill their personal pockets and fortunes with American ‘bribes’ is retarded. Unless you call the withdrawal of crippling economic/military sanctions and the sale of much needed military equipment to the armed forces of Pakistan a ‘bribe’, your claims are baseless and vulgar and counter-productive. They legitimize the truly hideous agendas of those who you should have the courage to oppose; furthermore they seriously contribute to confusing national popular perception which is so very critical for us to win this war. If you still claim that Musharraf allied to the US purely for personal financial gains, I suggest you try and provide some proof otherwise no one is going to take you seriously here.

We are not on the verge of ‘destruction’ except for maybe in the over-dramatized imagination of yours. That having been said, I know we’re in a very bad situation, but it is nothing that can’t be fixed. We are where we are because the nation in general and politicians in particular are irresolute when it comes to national interests, just like they are self-serving and incompetent. Also because vast portions of our clergy have let not only Pakistan but Islam itself down in front of ever changing and evolving challenges and threats. Most have let us down, but some have become destructive. Like the Ghazi upstart from Lal Masjhid when he ‘forbade’ the offering of Namaz-e-Janaza for martyred Pakistani soldiers, when he labeled the demolition of illegal mosques in Islamabad by a city government akin to Israel’s destruction of Mosques in Al-Aqsa, when he openly called for insurrection and allegiance to Osama Bin Laden, when he started menacing Islamabad’s streets through violent activities, when he kidnapped innocents including women and police-men, when he killed rangers, when he ordered armed hooligans and crazed activists to ‘guard’ the little den of chaos he called a mosque from the power of the Law, when he held hundreds of girls hostage, when he rigged his entire ‘mosque’ with mines, explosives, grenades and trip wires and stocked RPMs and RPGs, when he killed a SSG battalion commander who was responsible for trying nothing other than blowing a way through which the girls can escape his madness. When he brought war to Islamabad and called for a suicide bombing campaign against his own countrymen across the country. Now these are the makers of pure hateful, reckless and unreasoning chaos if ever there was an example in recent times. These are the people who have brought us where we are, not the core commanders. If only your arrogance permitted you to see this. Only thing the Army is ‘guilty’ of is trying to rid the country of this menace, sure they’ve made tactical mistakes across the campaign, but that is to be expected and is not our most pressing concern since we have people like you who go out of their way to defend the likes of Ghazi.

My plan is simple, stop the butchering of your own citizens for someone else. End this honeymoon with WoT. It has destroyed us. It is decaying every single foundation of ours. That is the core of the problem.

Well let’s get one thing straight first. You obviously don’t have a plan. The PA does not ‘butcher’ innocents. By seeking to inject nonfactual dramatics into our discourse you hope to conceal and distort the reality of the matter which is that the PA does not indulge in indiscriminate killings. If anything like the interviews and reports are to go by then you’d note that there is little the PA ranks are concerned about more than civilian casualties. Actually discriminate violence is the domain of the Al-Qaeda terrorists and their supporters, not the Pakistan Army. Time you get that clear once and for all, the moral credentials of the PA and the terrorists defer greatly. You yourself in an attempt at saving face acknowledged the purity and sincerity of our line troopers. So now you will have a hard time attributing concepts of ‘butchering’ ‘civilians’ to our young-men in uniform because even if we accept your raging insults against the top brass, fact of the matter is the generals are not the ones doing the field work. Decisions that might cost the lives of women or children are always in the hands of JCOs or young officers till the rank of colonel at most. The PA has suffered repeated setbacks, failures and defeats all the while their full potential for war is wasted because of the self-made limitations they’ve imposed on themselves light of having to fight an enemy who mixes with civilians as a means of concealment and protection and who operates from and in built up civilian areas. Your all-encompassing allegations are BS. But in any conflict, particularly one of this nature the sad reality is that innocents always suffer. However there is no point forgetting that the entirety of that loss is due to insurrectionist operations, even if a fraction of that is not through rebel guns because where the Armed Forces fight for their nation as a priority, the terrorists only have their own interests in mind.

Whether you like it or not, things are slowly getting better in the WoT mainly because people have realized the self-destructive nature of your (which is pretty similar to terrorist) rhetoric. So technically the honey-moon has yet to come, you see it is like a flue. Sometimes things have to get worse before they get better. Because that is the time it takes for people to realize what they want, and that is certainly not what the terrorists preach and you (wittingly or unwittingly) assist. Better late than never, I always say.

But if I take what you say to be what I think you mean. Then I’m certainly glad you’re not in charge. If the Army withdraws from FATA right now the FC would be massacred by the Tribes/Taliban in a matter of weeks. Their hold over the tribal people, our people, your people would become so strong that it would be impossible to reclaim without a firestorm of an operation. You see what’s happening in Bajour right now? Well that’s us paying for our mistakes, we thought the tribes would take care of themselves and of Pakistan, we thought the system would hold out. We were wrong. And what you see right now in Bajour will only be a fraction of the amount of blood and resources needed to reclaim FATA if we were ever retarded enough to withdraw and forsake our own people. As it is we’ve allowed the enemy to dictate the tempo of our movements and operations for too long, which has cost us hundreds of lives and much international/domestic prestige. And now you ask us to withdraw only to be forced to attack again?

And reclaim FATA we will have to, because even a blind man will tell you that the Taliban, once they have any level of control there, will essentially break all legal obligations and allegiances with Pakistan. Heck they declared themselves the Islamic Emirate of Waziristan or something the last time that Pakistan agreed to a simple cease fire, can you imagine what would happen if we leave completely?

And we haven’t even reached the worst part yet, where ever the Taliban/Al-Qaeda go unchallenged the US will come. You think the US interferes in FATA a lot right now? Wait till you see what they’ll do to that little piece of land if we cede responsibility of it over to the Taliban. I can give you a hint: it has something to do with B-52 bombers and incendiary weapons.

Talking about protecting your national integrity and honor, you’d rather have us abandon all those loyal Pakistani people, all that sacrifice, all that hard work? Why, just because you lack the courage to acknowledge that we have a little problem there that won’t go away by giving the Taliban some flowers. In order for them to be defeated the TTP has to be fought, that has been proven time and time again in FATA and Swat at the cost of much. So you are either with us, or with them. It is not just a simple proposition, it is a reality.

This all mess (insurgency within and from out) you see is started because someone up there decided to fight someone else illegal war on our soil by killing our women and children. Do you think people will not retaliate when you harm their families?

If your logic and justification about violence and human nature is true then…I’m sure you know that a 1000 plus service-men have been martyred fighting this un-Islamic abomination called Al-Qaeda, or maybe you forget but soldiers are humans too. They too have families and loved ones and emotions. So if your logic were true and say out of the thousands of relatives that have lost loved ones to the tribes-men and Taliban at least some would have considered strapping their chests with explosives and blowing themselves up along with dozens of other people in a crowded tribal market place. But does that happen? No. They must’ve access to explosives and weapons more than your average family right? But how many Army or FC or Police families do this? None. There is something wrong with your logic, maybe because it is not logical. Just another excuse for you to justify/overlook/ignore the unacceptable and unforgivable acts of crime committed by terrorists in the name of Islam. You only provide the terrorists with a morality-smoke screen and don’t add to anything other than chaos. You don’t serve your country well by forgetting all those families whose sons and fathers and brothers have been ‘butchered’ in the real sense, with their headless and broken bodies hung from trees as a tool of intimidation for locals. You must understand that the terrorist ideology has manipulated you, just like it has countless of their suicide bombers and other cannon fodder into believing that what they do is in anyway rational.

do you think the enemy would not take the benefit when he will see you being engaged with civilian massacres? do you think the western pundits will not exploit the situation to bleed us?

Actually I’m more concerned about the eastern ones if I’m honest. But in answer to your question, yes they will exploit the situation to bleed us, just like you are. If you, a ‘patriotic’ Pakistani can blow things so out of proportion then why can’t they?

If you still have some doubts, please do not hesitate to engage me in a discussion about american imperialism and I'll make sure your concern is taken care of.

I don’t hate your Anti-American views. You are after all part of the spectrum but I do hate your inherit hypocrisy. You, for example, certainly tried to make no secret of the fact that you logged into this forum from America/Canada. No doubt you and others of your family and friends go there in search of opportunities, jobs, pleasure or a better living standards or life styles…you obviously abide by their rules, protocols, inspections and submit to their authority and pay your travel or visa money and taxes, whatever I have no problem with that. But then I wonder WHY do you consider the leaders of our state like Musharraf making stately agreements with the United States in the interests of his country such a huge disgusting, unforgivable heresy? Why do you consider Pakistan fulfilling its obligations in the world power structure akin to ‘sleeping with the devil’ or taking ‘bribes’? If you personally can exploit all the benefits of being in a superpower then why can’t a nation state like Pakistan?

The Americans don’t want us to give them a tithe and they don’t demand the right to summon our armies to fight for them across the world. All they ask from us in exchange of assistance is that we get our own house in order. These ‘corrupt, fantasizing evil’ generals have ensured that Pakistan cannot be invaded like Iraq by anyone. Despite all the excuses terrorists and Pakistan-haters have given the west and the superpowers to do so, they haven’t done it and still seek friendship instead of confrontation i.e. unlike with Iran because they know they can’t do it. They know it’s not worth it.

You sell your country short repeatedly, at every turn. And then you claim to be proud Pakistani. I have trouble relating this logic.

No, I hold the military profession very high, even if you believe that. My questioning of top brass in bed with US should not be misinterpreted. or else I wouldn't be saying these soldiers are laying their lives for fighting someone else war.

Pakistani soldiers won’t have a very high opinion of you if you tell them that their command ‘is in bed with the US’ and they certainly won’t be very happy with you if you go around telling people that they are merely fighting as slaves and mercenaries either, and ‘killing women and children’ as you’re fond of saying at every turn. Oh yes indeed you do disrespect our soldiery, you’ve said that much. You consider generations of PA to be a burden on the country instead of its one defining attribute. Generals are not sent from the heavens to us on wings, every general in his life has served as a lowly lieutenant leading a platoon of average men into danger and desolation. At the end of the day they are soldiers too, if you consider all or the bulk to them to be traitor then the bottom line is you don’t have a very high opinion of the Army and that’s that. There is no way to insult any Army-man any further than what you say, and you will have to take my word on this even if you don't listen to anything else.

As a amtter of fact, except 11 soldiers (killed by american war plane), none other were killed in defending their country, rather clashing with their own people for orders coming from top down.

Yes because the other thousand or so soldiers were killed by women and children with pitchforks right? They were killed by TERRORISTS, those who take up arms against their nation deserve to be fought, have to be fought and will be fought. Why does your hate for the PA blind you to this reality?

In military term, defense of the country is from external threats, such as defending the borders. For internal threats it's the job of other security agencies.

If the internal security agencies fail in their duties of protecting the people from crime or its more dangerous brother terrorism then, then the Army as servants are duty bound to assist in whatever way they can. It is the Army’s job to defend the country from external as well as internal threats. This has been the case for a long time. The Army can’t tell its people ‘we don’t do windows’, even if it did you’d just add that to the long list of reasons you have for hating the PA. It is unfortunate indeed that the Army is distracted from our more dangerous enemies by traitors like Fazrullah but there is no point moaning about it. They have job to do, I suggest you let them do it. You’re a pretty confused guy, on one hand you whine about why Fazrullah hasn’t been killed by the Army yet on the other hand you don’t even give them room to operate and accuse them of having no right to fight internal threats.

Talk about defense, drone attacks are happening left n right, other countries even invaded our country and killed our women and children in the middle of the night by shooting them in the head, and we could not defend.

An unforgivable act but it was not an invasion. The American SFs ran away and have promised not to try that again. But thousands of foreign fighters crossing into our borders like it doesn’t exist again and again, launching country wide indiscriminate attacks against military, political and civilian targets at the cost of 10,000s of lives and billions of dollars. Now that my friend, is a real invasion and not the work of a few moaning ‘innocent women and children’ like you claim.

Why aren't we defending our country on that? Or laying your life to defend those attacks, is a waste?

Like I said, this is hypocrisy. Why is only war against the US worthy of martyrdom? It does not matter to you that your country-men are killed, only those who die trying to kill Americans are worthy of honor in your opinion.

you are in no position to tell me that I am looking down upon them. Your assertions can be kept to yourself and they are as good as your opinions. Assigning things to others that they have never said is not a good way to discuss things.

I only call it as I see it. You are consistently attacking their integrity, in the above posts you just accused the PA of lacking the courage to fight the Americans and you blamed them for taking their violence out on ‘innocent women and children’ instead. This is crass. If you stop acting like a terrorist propagandist and inject reasonable objectivity into your opinion, then maybe I’ll change my mind. You may not be a terrorist, but you’re obviously confused and terrorist propaganda has had much impact on you and your perceptions.

They did produce power hungry, selfish and corrupt generals didn't they? Musharraf is a live example.

You cant back anyone of those accusations with credible logic or proof. How is Musharraf in anyway more ‘power hungry and selfish’ than any of the leaders Pakistan has had after Jinnah? Atleast Musharraf was content enough to let his bitter rivals into parliament and subsequently stepped down peacefully and voluntarily. As compared to Nawaz Sharif and the Bhuttos who were only kicked out through coups and hangings and resorted to murder and wide spread rigging to survive.

Musharraf is not perfect, he should never have had to come in. As a military man used to commanding soldiers he misjudged the demeanor of the Pakistani nation. But then again in this world we hardly ever get what we want, we have to make do with what we have. Rather Musharraf I say than BB, NS and certainly Zardari…now these are all terminally and undeniably corrupt and compromised individuals. You on the other hand can stick no legal corruption charges to Musharraf, go ahead and try. He is clean in that department; even his bitterest rivals have admitted this.

And would you be king enough to show me what Nawaz sharif have done to civilians? or ZA Bhutto, that can surpass the cruelity of Musharraf?

I’d love to. Okay let’s start with Nawaz Sharif, who in his reign got rid of a Chief Justice after a much publicized feud in which the Army was forced to come in and mediate, his henchmen were also responsible for storming of the Supreme Court. He attacked the press viciously and took journalists to court with charges of treason for criticizing the Sharif family (imagine what he would’ve done if the press was as free as it is now). Sharif also got rid of a popular Army Chief (and installed Musharraf in his stead) because the said Army chief had made some simple observations regarding the state of the nation during NS tenure (things were bad then, and this without the WoT and the world financial crises to contend with), he also allegedly killed an Army Chief through slow poisoning, he is known by all to be a very vindictive man and the way he went after his political opponents is all the proof we need, and lastly despite his nation being in a mess and his astounding incompetence as can be seen by the Kargil affair…he had a good mind for getting himself the title of ‘Amir-ul-Muslimen’, talk about singular and reckless ambition. There is loads more but I feel I am digressing. I’m surprised you don’t know any of this, you should certainly read more history books even if you weren’t born at the time. In regards to Bhutto well, this could go on for a while but I think you’ll like to know that Bhutto was one Pakistani dictator who raised, operated and used a brutal secret police force called the FSF. Their activities would make for colorful reading, if you even care to indulge.

I see you are a Musharraf's supporter. So if his policies, actions, and decisions were in the interest of the country, why is our country on the verge of destruction?

You measure the morality of a deed in terms of the level of success or failure achieved; I do so only through the righteousness of the cause and correctness of our beliefs. Just because the path is tough, does not mean the path is wrong.

why do our soldiers have to hide their identity and stopped wearing uniform (the uniform that we all are proud of)?

Well this is because of people like you who accuse the PA of being traitors, kin killers, mercenaries, child murders and what not. Yup, the blame lies with you, take responsibility for your destructive words.

If it wasn't his policies and decisions, then what did backfire and created this unpredecented gap between armed forces and civilian society?

Yup, like I said, unpatriotic people like you did this. Who else?

Just for the record, I had been saying here I'll prefer dying on my feet by enemy hands, then living on my knees with my head on enemy's feet, or get killed from by the hands of the people sworn to protect me.

Your head is on our enemy’s feet, only thing is that you, unlike us, don’t consider terrorists to be your enemies. You go out of your way to find excuses for them and their violence.

The ones that we trained and brainwashe don the name of islam to fight the soviets (again someone else war)?

So now the Soviet Jihad was an immoral thing in your view too? Hm, so much hypocrisy.

Their loyalities were with us.

Their loyalties were with Al-Qaeda when they decided to ignore our advice and stick with Al-Qaeda and put the whole region in jeopardy. Their loyalties were not with us when they violated our borders too and made war with the PA when the PA asked them to leave.

They fought for us.

That is hardly the case, we used them to achieve stability in Afghanistan just like they used us to gain power. They didn’t ‘fight for us’ because of the good graces of their hearts, the subsequent contempt for us and our advice is ample proof of that.

We supported them. We nurtured them

Again with the sweeping unbalanced rhetoric. I’m sure the Indians would have loved to thank these particular claims of yours, if they could. But for the last time, we had nothing to do with Al-Qaeda or the TTP, if you can’t read my posts then stop wasting my time.

They defended our borders from soviets. They had strong links across the borders with military who supported them throughout in Mujahideen shape and in Talibans shape.

This is how professional military and intelligence services work, there is nothing personal, only business. The country’s well being comes first, besides for the last time we are not fighting the Haqqani/Hekmatyar groups because they’re not fighting us. We owe NO LOYALTY to Taliban or anyone else. If the Taliban government was taken down by the help of the Afghan people, why the hell should we try to change that? On one hand you accuse us of immoral interference and imposing the Taliban on Afghanistan, and now you accuse us of not helping them at all? Your words are blatant hypocrisy. You are tripping over your feet to come up with Anti-Pakistan rhetoric but you’re making no sense.

They did not run away from Americans. It's a strategy, sometimes you are on a backfoot, soemtimes on front foot. The fight is still on. Can't you see west claiming already they can't win the war? how can you say then those fighters ran away?

I know you have a soft spot for the Taliban, but yes they ran away. They have only been able to make a comeback because of lack of government in Afghanistan and the Karzi governments terminal corruption and incompetence, and also because of the pathetic amount of troops and equipment NATO have/had committed to securing the whole of Afghanistan. Ofcourse they are resurgent, but they’re never going to win the war as long as the Americans stay. They ran away, and they still run away every day. They can’t stand up to the US face to face or retain any amount of territory Uncle Sam wants to contest. They are a weak insurgent force made strong in contrast to western commitment and government strength.

It's a general pereption of the country and a fact for everyone who research through unbiased eye, that america alter our leadership. America controls many things in our country including ISI DG appointments, which is the very famous one. A little googling on the matter will reveal a lot of analysis about this covert operation of America.

LOL, please give us some proof for these wonderful revelations. So you think the Army’s leadership is like appointees of the US just because they fight your Taliban friends eh? Not surprising. I would like to ask you to grow up, your point of view has the maturity of a 14 year olds. You have a lot in common with Anti-Pakistani militant ideology.

Do you ahve any idea how many citizens are missing, for which our CJ took a stand and now he is out as well?

Not nearly as many as you claim, I’m sure of that.

Army is not suppose to be patrolling the borders in tribal lands as per the agreement (neither they were) and if they don't like the agreement, work it out and get a new agreement, but for now thats the agreement. They are not suppose to interfere in the tribal business.

And the tribals were supposed to protect our western flanks, which they didn’t. They were not supposed to let foreigners in, which they did. They are not supposed to kidnap and murder and mutilate FC men, which they did and will continue to do so until they are stopped. The Agreement calls for the punishment of tribes and tribesmen responsible for breaking said agreements, which is what the Army is doing.

The agreement states, the borders will be protected by the tribes (and they have for 60 years)

Erm, no they didn’t, read up on some history for once in your life. The tribes always tried to misbehave whenever they thought they could get away with it. The PA has long had contingency plans to deal with tribes should they ever go overboard and declare conquest. The Al-Qaeda was just enough to tip the system, what we got is along over due.

So when you attack someone in tribal lands, expect an opposite or equal reaction. Expect that no debts will be left unpaid. That's how the things are there. So correct your information that they fired on army for patrolling the border, when army never patrols the border.

The Army patrolled the border because they needed to, terrorists were getting across. The Army did not expect the tribes to be so hostile. When first the Army came, they hardly came in with the intention of combat. They were unarmored, lightly armed. Almost naked. Most of them were equipped with logistic and construction vehicles for reinforcing road networks and making bridges and schools and communication infrastructure. Only problem is that the tribes-men, arrogant and inhumane as many of them are, tried to evaporate the first unarmored convoy they saw. And then began the war. The Pakistan Army never expected this when they went in, naïve of them no doubt, but they expected to be greeted and helped. ‘Invasion’ of tribal areas was never their plan.

This is your Army that has protected YOU from much larger and dangerous enemies for half a century. Why do you insist on acting like a barbarian? ‘Blood debts’ and what not. It was an instinctive animalist reaction to what the tribes perceived was a threat to their medieval and primitive way of life. In a way it was, it was best for the country. But they don’t care about that…

And talk about runing country's soverignty, whatever happen to drone attacks. I guess they are throwing flowers from across the border and not openly runing the soverignhty of the country?

DID you read nothing of what I say in regards to taking things in proportion and context? If Al-Qaeda gets out, the drones don’t come. Simple as that. But do you really want Al-Qaeda out? Are the drones just an excuse for you to want the PA out?

Not really. I read the Hamood ur rahman commission report and other Pakistani official sources about how they reacted to bengali disobedience.

I have read that report, it has credibility. But your quotes and claims do not. You fail to comprehend the concepts of proportionality and relativity. You attribute inevitable excesses of some to all and use that as a defining justification for your twisted views. PA has changed much since 71, but I suppose you’d know nothing about that.

Mujib Ur rahman, whoever he was, won the most seats in bangladesh. Why did we refuse him what he earned? Rest is all your anger, so I don't want to get into a you said I said thing.

Bhutto refused, the same Bhutto you just claimed a few paragraphs back is incapable of single minded ambition and hunger for power. The Army responded to threats to the Pakistan’s sovereignty by Mujibs lot. The only mistake Yahya the ‘dictator’ made was ordering the only completely free and fair elections Pakistan had seen and did see for a long time. I do not excuse our military failures, but politically, the Army is far from the only ones responsible.

why would you? Its beutiful to be a Punjabi, Sindhi, balochi or a Pakhtun. Beautiful cultures, languages, food, attire. Why would you want to put an end to such beautiful mixture of ethnical identities that are bonded in Pakistan already?

I agree, as a compound Pakistan is strong. Every culture has something to offer and is what makes our nation great. BUT Punjabis, Pathans or Balochis are not a nation. Pakistan is a nation, remember that Pashtun. Loyalty to nation comes first, which is exactly what I said if you had bothered to read any of my post. I guess some people might feel more loyalty to ideas of ‘Paukhtunistan’ instead of Pakistan, or a greater Afghanistan. Maybe you know what I’m talking about eh Pashtun? Well that’s wrong. And those people are likely to indulge in the divisive Anti-Pakistani rhetoric I’ve seen here.

My anti-Pakistan affiliates?... hmmm. Hamood Ur rahman was commissioned to write a report by GoP and approved by Military. Is it anti-pakistan affiliate?

Then again the report or its author is not really your affiliate now is he? Don’t insult the man.

Why would Mujib Ur Rahman tried to manipulate the masses, who already voted for him and he won majority from there?

He manipulated the masses before they voted for him, which is why the Bengalis voted entirely based on ethnic dissimilarity. Mujib still used the masses after that ofcourse, because Bhutto was not giving him what he wanted and his game had been uncovered by the military. He wanted more obviously, instead of what was best for his country. And the unsecure and emotional people obliged. But look at what many Bengalis think of him now.

They cashed that gap between PA and the people of East Pakistan as an opportunity.

And what are you doing right now with all this crass talk? Helping Pakistan survive? Doesn’t look like that to a sane man.

It's our fault for providing such opportunity and that is why I brought up dhakka in the first place,

No doubt.

that we are doing again the same thing, creating gap between armed forces and civilian masses.

No that is exactly what you’re doing. The Army is doing their job and protecting the Pakistani people.

Actually I did not ask for withdraw from Swat. I asked for a surgial operation and stop in aerial bombardment and tank shelling.

There are no tanks in Swat. But I thought that the PA was doing America’s bidding by going after traitors like Mullah FM. You don’t give the Army legitimacy, or room for maneuver and help the Taliban with all this trash talk. Then you expect a miracle.

And yes for the record I too think the PA can do a much better job, and kill the likes of Fazrullah. But I also know that it will most certainly need an aggressive approach and operations the nature of which will almost certainly cause civilian casualties. Then people like you will call the PA America’s dogs again and encourage more youth to go and join the Taliban. I agree with you see, but I am not as naïve because I don’t hate the PA.

war with our own people? or war with eternal enemy? for the latter, PA has my all blessings and support.

Hypocrisy. You serve a Pakistan that only exists in your misplaced imagination. Not the Pakistan that needs you right now and is struggling with its enemies.

Correction, it was BB who approved the support for Talibans.

LOL, which his exactly what I said, you misread it. Do take some time to go over this post please.

Musharraf accepted he supported talibans because Northern Alliance was supported by Iran (his percieved enemy).

The NA is supported by India. The Shite Hazaras are supported by Iran. Your posts are getting lamer and weaker, Musharraf considering Iran to be an ‘enemy’ is the latest example. Iran doesn’t like the Taliban ofcourse, but that doesn’t mean Musharraf hates Iran.

I mean I am not really familiar with this place, so tell me if we are not to even speak about the facts... as long they are not against PA?

You can speak about the facts provided you have any. So far you haven’t qualified.

You unleash the animal only you trained, you don't decide how he will react to what you unleashed it on.

So now the Taliban become animals eh? As opposed to righteous loyal Pakistani civilians engaging in modest self-defense against the vile Pakistan Army as you claimed? You are man who is hard to get down, but I will try.

Okay WOW, this is getting boring. I’ll answer the rest later, though most of it is not worth it. It is too much for most people to read anyway. Sorry for all the digress AM.
 
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Army will purge Swat of Taliban: ISPR
* Prime minister, COAS discuss security issues
Daily Times Monitor

LAHORE/ISLAMABAD: ISPR spokesman Maj Gen Athar Abbas has said the army will complete its mission of purging the Swat district of Taliban, a private TV channel reported.

According to the channel, he said the security forces would not allow the Taliban to return to the Swat valley after they have been pushed out.

Meanwhile, Chief of the Army Staff (COAS) General Ashfaq Kayani called on Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani at the Prime Minister’s House on Thursday and discussed “the overall security situation of the country with particular reference to Swat”, according to a brief press statement by the Prime Minister’s House.

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan
 
pashtun there is such a person called a revolutionary who wants to overthrow the existing political system by force.

washington was a revolutionary so were lenin and castro. They were traitors who became the founding fathers of their new states.

If they had failed then they would have been traitors forced to run and hide to avoid being executed.

when we talk about al quaeda we are talking about people who wanted to make revolutions in egypt or in saudia arabia but couldnt because they too were weak and too unpopular.

I think the al quaeda has some things that the pashtuns don't have, that makes you vulnerable to being controlled and used as pawns, namely: organization, ideology, indoctrination, money and most important fame. Apparently there is nothing some people won't do for fame.

You fight your own army because they tell you to, because according to their ideology (and you have none of your own) you have to destroy your own country and attack other countries to become the muslim superpower ruled by a caliph. The alternative is to be an american slave like the house of Saud. It's all america's fault because the peoples of arabia all love and admire Osama and want them as their just ruler.

Reality is a little different. You destroy your own country you wind up living in a destroyed country.
100s of thousands of pakistanis living in tents permanently getting cholera, and a new generation of uneducated unemployable trigger pullers killing each other to loot the aid convoys.
 
You're right on the money and fame part, though it's more the money part than the fame part.

You're also right that these idiots have come from Arabia where they were unpopular, and they're using and abusing the hospitality of the tribals.

You'll get the standard responses "oh they helped defeat the Soviet Union", and to a degree that's true, but the price of defeating the Soviet Union was not worth what came afterwards.

They should just bugger off back to Arabia and Uzbekistan where they came from, and then destroy all the US/Saudi ideological madrassas from the 80s.
 
pashtun there is such a person called a revolutionary who wants to overthrow the existing political system by force.

washington was a revolutionary so were lenin and castro. They were traitors who became the founding fathers of their new states.

Although it took political scientists a long time to realize it, there was a fundamental difference between the American Revolution and the French Revolution and its descendants like the Russian Revolution. The American Revolution was a counterrevolution, seeking, as the Declaration of Independence took pains to point out, the return of politics to the norms that existed before George III attempted to assert royal "tyranny" in the 1750s, and consequently it kept national executive authority to a minimum. George Washington was no firebrand, but an enterprising businessman, property speculator, and arch-conservative.

The French Revolutions, on the other hand, sought to impose totally different systems of governance and social order. Extermination or exile of those who sought to retain the existing system was an eager tool of these revolutionaries, which is why they were so bloody and disruptive to the populace.

Washington, in short, was no traitor to the collections of local governments he represented, only his king. Castro, Lenin, and their ilk betrayed a lot more people than that!
 
Shouting at the Devil

Thursday February 05, 2009

Anwaar Hussain
eagleeye@emirates.net.ae

This time the Pakistan army confronts a devil that does not go away by merely shouting at. The devil shouts back.

What is Pakistan army doing in Swat? This is not how an insurgency is fought. Recently, for example, in a single day’s blitz, 45 innocent people were blown to bits to get just one militant. This is the kind of collateral damage even the Americans would shirk from. This is not, repeat NOT, how insurgencies are fought.

When insurgency is to be countered, certain abiding facts need to go down loud and clear with the aspirants. First, there has to be a will to win. No will, no win. Next, in a counterinsurgency the population will give its loyalty to the side that will best protect it. This is why the chief goal of insurgents is to deprive the population of that sense of security. Through violence and bloodshed insurgents seek to generate a climate of fear by demonstrating the authorities` weakness and inability to maintain order. At the same time, sham justice is provided through brute force to a few to further alienate the people from their governors. Last but not the least however, and for the reasons just mentioned, artillery shells lobbed from over the horizon have never won insurgencies, men with their boots on the ground have.

Counterinsurgency is an extremely complex form of warfare but initially counterinsurgency operations are similar to emergency first-aid for the patient. Stop the bleeding first.

And that means gaining and maintaining the population’s support. That is the real challenge. The protection, welfare, and support of the people are vital to success in counterinsurgency operations. This will not only break the insurgents’ initiative and momentum but will also set conditions for further engagement. This cannot be done by hurling in to-whom-it-may-concern fashion, lethal high trajectory projectiles from distant locations on innocent people just because a few insurgents are using them for cover.

What is needed first and foremost is a demonstration of force and will. This requires deploying the army to the streets from the current camped-in deployments in Swat. Presently, even when the army does get out of its encampments, it does so in vehicles buzzing at great speeds past deserted streets doing little more than becoming a minor nuisance for the militants while presenting a bunched up target to an occasional suicide bomber or to a sniping rocket attack. The army needs to get out of their camps and that too on foot. The troop traveling on foot would be better able to determine the attacking insurgents` position and engage them effectively.

Thus far the Swatis, by and large, are convinced that the Pakistan Army does not have the stomach for the fight, shies away from casualties, and ultimately will cut and run. The army’s foot patrols, therefore, would be a stunning visual depiction of its demonstration of force, resolve and effectiveness. That only could reverse the current downward slide toward complete loss of Swat and will give the Swatis confidence to return to their homes, farms and fields.

As the situation stands today, to a great degree, the insurgents already have seized and exploited the initiative. Pakistan Army only reacts to insurgent’s violent actions as and when it can. The fight needs to be taken to the enemy. Without further loss of time, the Army must undertake offensive and defensive operations on a massive scale to regain the initiative and create a secure environment. Killing the insurgents—while necessary, especially with respect to extremists—by itself cannot defeat an insurgency.

Gaining and retaining the lost initiative requires Pakistan Army to address the needs of the local populace by providing them with security first followed immediately by essential services. As security improves, military resources then must contribute to supporting reconstruction projects. Afterwards, when the initiative is regained, offensive operations can focus on eliminating the insurgent cadre, while defensive operations should continue to focus on protecting the populace and infrastructure from direct attacks. Victory will only be achieved when the general Swati populace consents to the government’s legitimacy and stops actively and passively supporting the insurgency.

For Pakistan army to succeed, therefore, the nature of the beast must be understood with complete clarity. The insurgents will, through terrorist tactics, continue to sow general disorder by inciting sectarian violence, weakening the government, intimidating the population, killing political leaders, intimidating police and military forces limiting their ability to respond to attacks and creating a false impression of governmental repression. Those are standard insurgent tactics.

For the army to adapt effective counter-tactics, priorities need to be sorted out post haste. First and foremost, the army needs to bring their attention and firepower to bear onto the insurgency’s leadership. There is no point in killing the wretched foot soldiers when Mullah Fazlullah continues to rant from his FM radio stations. He has to be silenced first while maintaining only a secondary focus on general combatants, political cadres and active followers who provide important support to the insurgency, moving finally to engage its mass base. Cut off the snake’s head first, the remaining body is then merely a piece of protein to be dispensed with as necessary.

All this while, continued efforts need to be made to exploit some potential vulnerabilities of the militants. Some of these are their need for secrecy, secure communications, an established base of operations, reliance on external support, obtaining financial resources etc. etc. It would do no harm to use, for once, the ISI for the job for which it was actually trained i.e. to sow internal divisions within the militants and recruit informants from their ranks.

The insurgents will do anything to preserve their greatest advantage--the ability to hide among the people. These amoral and barbaric enemies survive by their wits, constantly adapting to the situation. Defeating them would require the army too to develop the ability to continuously learn, adapt rapidly and deliver. The contrary is unimaginable.

This time the Pakistan army confronts a devil that does not go away by merely shouting at.

The devil shouts back.

Shouting at the Devil
 
pashtun there is such a person called a revolutionary who wants to overthrow the existing political system by force.

washington was a revolutionary so were lenin and castro. They were traitors who became the founding fathers of their new states.

If they had failed then they would have been traitors forced to run and hide to avoid being executed.

Well extending what Soloman have said, there's no such incident in entire hsitory that have overthrown an oppressor/political system without using the force. No struggle for independence (from an oppressive political system or entity) has ever been won by "non-violent" means. The French resistance to the Nazis was violent, the Algerian resistance to the French was violent, the Vietnamese resistance to the French, and the Americans was violent, the Thai's to their govt. was/is violent, the Burmese saw the first signs as well, so did the Tibetan Monks picked up the ruckus.

You see, No Ruler have ever ended its oppression/unpopular control, because it was asked nicely. The violent protests, the angry staging, the civilian disobedience, strikes, boycotts, all are one way or the another, related to force.

when we talk about al quaeda we are talking about people who wanted to make revolutions in egypt or in saudia arabia but couldnt because they too were weak and too unpopular.

Not really unpopular people, but unpopular regimes of the Egypt, Saudi Arabia etc. If you haven't noticed, they are not popularly elected governments, rather brutal dictatorships or monarchy's (directly supported by the US), that are constantly crushing the popular resistance from past 30 years in Egypt's case alone with that Butcher of the west Hosni Mobarak being the most unpopular person in Egypt alone.

If today, an election is to be held in saudi Arabia and Egypt, 'these' people you refer as 'weak & unpopular' will win hands down, I tell you that.

And moreover, those people did not come to Afghanistan for money and fame or because they did not have any room in their own countries (being unpopular as you alleged). They were mobilised on the name of Islam by Anglo -Americans, and trained and brainwashed in pakistan by saudi funded camps against the soviets, so Americans can give soviet their Vietnam and britain can get rid of their long time adversary, the Red Menace.

So why blame these people who were mobilised and brainwashed for their simple understanding for ending the oppression of an occupying menace, when you are the ones who mobilised them in the first place for your petty interests?

I think the al quaeda has some things that the pashtuns don't have, that makes you vulnerable to being controlled and used as pawns, namely: organization, ideology, indoctrination, money and most important fame. Apparently there is nothing some people won't do for fame.

I beg to differ. Let's not mock the intellect of the world like that. There's no Al-Qaeda, it's just a scapegoat, and all the commonalities are cooked up to justify the mass murders the occupation forces are comming under the pretext of Al-Qaeda that they created the hoax in the first place. Let's go through from it together (if you have tendency to see through beyond your usual acceptance of CNN/Fox:

In the words of former British Foreign Secretary Robin Cook:

"Al-Qaida, literally “the database”, was originally the computer file of the thousands of mujahideen who were recruited and trained with help from the CIA to defeat the Russians"

He further said: "The truth is, there is no Islamic army or terrorist group called Al Qaida. And any informed intelligence officer knows this. But there is a propaganda campaign to make the public believe in the presence of an identified entity representing the 'devil' only in order to drive the TV watcher to accept a unified international leadership for a war against terrorism. The country behind this propaganda is the US."
There Is No 'Al Qaeda' says Ex UK Foreign Secretary | Pakistan Daily

The origins of the name "Al-Qaeda," is specifically the interesting one. Its real arabic connotations prove that every time the Bush administration, Fox News, or any individual who cites the threat of "Al-Qaeda", as a mandate for war and domestic authoritarianism, they are propagating the myth that such a group ever existed.

You have heard before that "Al-Qaeda" roughly translates into "the base," but were you aware that "Ana raicha Al Qaeda" is arabic colloquial for "I'm going to the toilet"?

Would hardened terrorists hell bent on the destruction of the west name their organization after a euphemism for taking a dump? :p

Furthermore, Paul Joseph Watsons' "Al-Qaeda Does not Exist" have a medicen that can wake people up from their slumber.

"BBC’s killer documentary called “The Power of Nightmares“ - Top CIA officials openly admit, Al-qaeda is a total and complete fabrication, never having existed at any time. The Bush administration needed a reason that complied with the Laws so they could go after “the bad guy of their choice” namely laws that had been set in place to protect us from mobs and “criminal organizations” such as the Mafia."

And this in particular by Thom Hartmann is an interesting read: Hyping Terror For Fun, Profit - And Power : 'The Power of Nightmares': Hyping Terror For Fun, Profit - And Power

So I don't know why would you say that Al-Qaeda/Pakhtuns are in for money and fame, when there's clear evidence that, Afghanistan was invaded by America for their own "Money and Fame" reasons. They pre-planned that attack on our region long before 9/11 (that they too decided to pull to reap unlimited benefits to extend their imperialist plans).

Anglo-American imperialism tactics of Incite Terror, to create Terror, in order to react to Terror - is everything but a secret.

You fight your own army because they tell you to, because according to their ideology (and you have none of your own) you have to destroy your own country and attack other countries to become the muslim superpower ruled by a caliph. The alternative is to be an american slave like the house of Saud. It's all america's fault because the peoples of arabia all love and admire Osama and want them as their just ruler.

You are mistaking Muslim Unity struggle with your propogandised Media's islamophobia. No Sir, there's no such thing as that "attacking other countries to become super muslim power, ruled by a caliph". If you haven't noticed, the only people had been attacked left n right are Muslims. In particular, Pakhtuns have been on defense since past few centuries (if one is not to go back to Alexander era).

Moreover, the Muslim unity to form a caliphate, should not be mistaken as imperialist agendas such as Anglo-American dreams of re-drawing borders of middle east etc. by imposing their style of democracy on everyone.

Muslim union is It's union among Muslim countries (not attacking other countries), happen to be over 50 in number, yet most of them are directly under attack or occupation through direct puppets or indirect puppet regimes.

If European Union can have a Union of their ideological countries, if North Ameirca can lick on NAFTA, if Latin America can weigh in for UNSAUR, if Africa can form an African Union, then why not Muslims?

Reality is a little different. You destroy your own country you wind up living in a destroyed country.
100s of thousands of pakistanis living in tents permanently getting cholera, and a new generation of uneducated unemployable trigger pullers killing each other to loot the aid convoys.

However, this is not how "every" Muslim (or non' for that matter) will look at it after scanning the events (not from 2001) but from 90s.

The reality is completely different that you'd like me to believe in. The reality is, it is a war against Islam and the resources Muslims are sitting on.

The New York Times confirmed on January 21st, 1996: "The Red Menace Is Gone. But Here's Islam."

Few things today are more shallow than the reasons most people have for supporting Bush and Blair war on "terrorism" and accepting their claims that it is not a war on Islam, rather the problem lies with the Muslims (locals per each diaspora).

Apart from the massive air strikes, commando raids and a prolonged "dirty war" against Islamic movements, the police repression, deportation, torture, censorship and death squads that we are certainly going to face are certainly not planned after the September 11 attacks. The US "war on terror" is no more than translation to the physical level, of the systematic approach that started with

(1) introduction of the rancid notion of "Islamic fundamentalism,"
(2) classification of Islam;
(3) equating "fundamentalism" with extremism and then terrorism;
(4) removal of governments, like Mr. Erbakan in Turkey, for having affiliations with Islam
(5) support of governments' cracking down on "Islamic extremists" such as Egyptian and Algerian regimes;
(6) development of agendas for government's like Musharraf;
(7) initially supporting the Taliban and then demonizing them to show the world the failure of Islam.

The Economist sensed "The Islamic Threat" way back in its March 13, 1993 edition whereby it declared:

"It is the mightiest power in the Levant...Governments tremble before it. Arabs everywhere turn to it for salvation from their various miseries. This power is not Egypt, Iraq, or indeed any nation, but the humble mosque."

Mr. Bush with a slip of tongue tells his mind in 2001 by describing the US recent missions in the lands of Islam as "crusade."

A above mentioned examples show that during the past 11-12 years systematic efforts have been directed to relegated Islam from its holistic perspective, encompassing all facets of human conduct and behavior to a mere set or rituals, something what the west has done to Christianity itself.

Over the last decade the western propaganda successfully divided Muslim into "Moderates," "Liberals" and "Fundamentalists" for whom there is no basis or justification in Islam.

The strength of Islam lies in the fact that despite having far less military and economic power, the western war-makers do not have the courage to declare it an open war on Islam.

All that "local people have problem" talk might just be a lame attempt to justify and glorify their single-minded pursuit of profit. They attack Islam the religion out of the need to de-humanize their victims. We got attacked because both the process and result of attacking us could enrich many individuals associated with the US regime.

So you see, how we ended up in the tents? And you see why the resistance is getting stronger everyday?

But I do agree with you that problem lies with us, for not seeing this design of imperialism from the core of it's agenda and directly playing their hands by thinking we are part of the problem and we must react to the terror (that they created in the first place by blaming us).

Thank you!
 
Last edited:
"If today, an election is to be held in saudi Arabia and Egypt, 'these' people you refer as 'weak & unpopular' will win hands down, I tell you that."

if my grandmother had wheels she would be a bus.

the test of whether or not someone is fit to wield power is if they can seize it.

in your part of the world that requires a bloodbath.

which is the heart of the problem.
 
Very nice read.
So very true...
The collateral damage for civilians is very unfortunate.

Shouting at the Devil

Thursday February 05, 2009

Anwaar Hussain
eagleeye@emirates.net.ae

This time the Pakistan army confronts a devil that does not go away by merely shouting at. The devil shouts back.

What is Pakistan army doing in Swat? This is not how an insurgency is fought. Recently, for example, in a single day’s blitz, 45 innocent people were blown to bits to get just one militant. This is the kind of collateral damage even the Americans would shirk from. This is not, repeat NOT, how insurgencies are fought.

When insurgency is to be countered, certain abiding facts need to go down loud and clear with the aspirants. First, there has to be a will to win. No will, no win. Next, in a counterinsurgency the population will give its loyalty to the side that will best protect it. This is why the chief goal of insurgents is to deprive the population of that sense of security. Through violence and bloodshed insurgents seek to generate a climate of fear by demonstrating the authorities` weakness and inability to maintain order. At the same time, sham justice is provided through brute force to a few to further alienate the people from their governors. Last but not the least however, and for the reasons just mentioned, artillery shells lobbed from over the horizon have never won insurgencies, men with their boots on the ground have.

Counterinsurgency is an extremely complex form of warfare but initially counterinsurgency operations are similar to emergency first-aid for the patient. Stop the bleeding first.

And that means gaining and maintaining the population’s support. That is the real challenge. The protection, welfare, and support of the people are vital to success in counterinsurgency operations. This will not only break the insurgents’ initiative and momentum but will also set conditions for further engagement. This cannot be done by hurling in to-whom-it-may-concern fashion, lethal high trajectory projectiles from distant locations on innocent people just because a few insurgents are using them for cover.

What is needed first and foremost is a demonstration of force and will. This requires deploying the army to the streets from the current camped-in deployments in Swat. Presently, even when the army does get out of its encampments, it does so in vehicles buzzing at great speeds past deserted streets doing little more than becoming a minor nuisance for the militants while presenting a bunched up target to an occasional suicide bomber or to a sniping rocket attack. The army needs to get out of their camps and that too on foot. The troop traveling on foot would be better able to determine the attacking insurgents` position and engage them effectively.

Thus far the Swatis, by and large, are convinced that the Pakistan Army does not have the stomach for the fight, shies away from casualties, and ultimately will cut and run. The army’s foot patrols, therefore, would be a stunning visual depiction of its demonstration of force, resolve and effectiveness. That only could reverse the current downward slide toward complete loss of Swat and will give the Swatis confidence to return to their homes, farms and fields.

As the situation stands today, to a great degree, the insurgents already have seized and exploited the initiative. Pakistan Army only reacts to insurgent’s violent actions as and when it can. The fight needs to be taken to the enemy. Without further loss of time, the Army must undertake offensive and defensive operations on a massive scale to regain the initiative and create a secure environment. Killing the insurgents—while necessary, especially with respect to extremists—by itself cannot defeat an insurgency.

Gaining and retaining the lost initiative requires Pakistan Army to address the needs of the local populace by providing them with security first followed immediately by essential services. As security improves, military resources then must contribute to supporting reconstruction projects. Afterwards, when the initiative is regained, offensive operations can focus on eliminating the insurgent cadre, while defensive operations should continue to focus on protecting the populace and infrastructure from direct attacks. Victory will only be achieved when the general Swati populace consents to the government’s legitimacy and stops actively and passively supporting the insurgency.

For Pakistan army to succeed, therefore, the nature of the beast must be understood with complete clarity. The insurgents will, through terrorist tactics, continue to sow general disorder by inciting sectarian violence, weakening the government, intimidating the population, killing political leaders, intimidating police and military forces limiting their ability to respond to attacks and creating a false impression of governmental repression. Those are standard insurgent tactics.

For the army to adapt effective counter-tactics, priorities need to be sorted out post haste. First and foremost, the army needs to bring their attention and firepower to bear onto the insurgency’s leadership. There is no point in killing the wretched foot soldiers when Mullah Fazlullah continues to rant from his FM radio stations. He has to be silenced first while maintaining only a secondary focus on general combatants, political cadres and active followers who provide important support to the insurgency, moving finally to engage its mass base. Cut off the snake’s head first, the remaining body is then merely a piece of protein to be dispensed with as necessary.

All this while, continued efforts need to be made to exploit some potential vulnerabilities of the militants. Some of these are their need for secrecy, secure communications, an established base of operations, reliance on external support, obtaining financial resources etc. etc. It would do no harm to use, for once, the ISI for the job for which it was actually trained i.e. to sow internal divisions within the militants and recruit informants from their ranks.

The insurgents will do anything to preserve their greatest advantage--the ability to hide among the people. These amoral and barbaric enemies survive by their wits, constantly adapting to the situation. Defeating them would require the army too to develop the ability to continuously learn, adapt rapidly and deliver. The contrary is unimaginable.

This time the Pakistan army confronts a devil that does not go away by merely shouting at.

The devil shouts back.

Shouting at the Devil
 
@Pashtun
(1) introduction of the rancid notion of "Islamic fundamentalism,"
(2) classification of Islam;
(3) equating "fundamentalism" with extremism and then terrorism;
(4) removal of governments, like Mr. Erbakan in Turkey, for having affiliations with Islam
(5) support of governments' cracking down on "Islamic extremists" such as Egyptian and Algerian regimes;
(6) development of agendas for government's like Musharraf;
(7) initially supporting the Taliban and then demonizing them to show the world the failure of Islam.
(3) equating "fundamentalism" with extremism and then terrorism;
is the most powerful reason why more and muslims feel america is anti-Islamic.
Fundamentalists are everywhere in every religion.
They need very powerful and close reasons to turn extreme.
America is providing them and complaining that the root is 'fundamentalism'. It is only a catalyst.
 
ANP female MPs to visit Swat

* To form ‘women peace jirga’ and two committees to monitor deteriorating law and order

By Zakir Hassnain

PESHAWAR: A delegation of female parliamentarians from the Awami National Party (ANP) will soon visit Swat to assess the damage caused to girls’ schools there and to express solidarity with women who suffer the most in the current law and order situation in the restive valley.

The parliamentarians on Friday announced formation of a ‘women peace jirga’ and two committees to monitor the deteriorating law and order in Swat, assess damage to girls’ schools and suffering of women and children and raise funds.

“Militants are targeting girls’ schools and destroying them and women are suffering. We condemn destruction of schools,” MPA Shagufta Malik said at a press conference at the Peshawar Press Club.

Shagufta said ANP leader Zahra Khattak was the convener of the organising committee while ANP MPA Zubaida Ehsan and former MPA Farah Aqil Shah were the committee members. She said the organising committee would contact other democratic parties and civil society organisations to cooperate with the ANP MPs and help them find a solution to the problems of women in Swat.

Shagufta said National Assembly Member Jamila Gilani was the convener of the fund-raising committee while ANP Peshawar District President Nasreen Bukhari and MPA Musarrat Shafi were its members. “To start with, ANP female MPs would donate their one-month salary and appeal to party workers to provide financial assistance for the women and displaced people of Swat,” she said.

Shagufta said the delegation would consist of the organising committee and ANP female MNAs and MPAs. “The delegation will shortly go to Swat to assess the damage caused to girls schools, express solidarity with women and collect details of the internally displaced persons,” said MNA Bushra Gohar.

Bushra denied that ANP parliamentarians did not visit the troubled areas themselves and said, “We go to Swat. We have got votes from Swat,” she said. However, Bushra added, it was not ANP’s responsibility alone. “It’s everyone’s responsibility to restore peace in Swat,” said the ANP MNA.

She said schools would open in March and the government would make alternative arrangements for schools, which were completely destroyed.

Jamila said the ANP ‘women peace jirga’ would contact other political parties and civil society activists within a month and provide them one platform to find a solution to the conflict in Swat.
 
Present Government is responsible for not accepting right demand of shariah in SWAT,that system remained inforced uptill 1970 ,even ANP suggested to GOP to restore shariah courts in SWAT.

Why Zardari is not taking action?????:hitwall:
 
Perhaps many Pakistanis thought Sharia in Swat was fine as long as they didn't have to live under it, but now that militants are out expand their influence, it must be fought?
 
It is as if the Zardari Administration set a house on fire and then blocked the fire trucks trying to put that fire out. After endorsing the Mushar-ruffian polices, these villians are now cajoling with the nation by merely putting up cosmetics gestures against the very dangerous and alarming challenges. Biggest of them is the anarchy and militancy in Swat and FATA region.

It seems that we have left that for Americans to resolve. We are repeating the same old blunders, by thinking that this time it would be different. Not only did these policies of the past fail royally, they helped create the crisis we now find ourselves in badly with no way out seemingly. Yet many in Islamabad believe we should go down that road yet again in hopes that this time it will be different.

Preventing wildfires is something that desperately needs to be done in any crisis condition anywhere in the world. What we need to understand is that having our country entangled in terrible crisis is not something new in the history. It happens to the nation and it is where the resolve of the nations and the caliber of the leaders is tested. Those who get over these crisis shine through the pages of history and secure their future, which also holds many new challenges for them. Nothing is for granted in this world.

Enough of the lip service and enough of the smiles and enough of the apathy of Pakistanis. If Iftikhar Mohammad Chaudhary is reinstated, it is very well, but if he is not then there must not be any agitation in the so-called peaceful areas of Pakistan. This very denial of promises by the PPP would combust any support for them and would automatically wipe the Zardari mafia from the scene. Justice Iftikhar issue must not be our top priority right now, though no doubt it’s a frontline issue.

The real issue is of survival. Enemy is at our doors and we have got every right to know as what is happening in Swat and FATA. How come some few thousands of Talibans are managing to survive and fight out our well-trained armed forces? What actually is happening over there? What’s the use of all this media frenzy and scores of channels when we don’t have live, proper, thorough and true coverage of the area? We must not blanket the Swat issue lest it becomes another East Pakistan. God Forbid, it was the same PPP in 71 when Pakistan was dismembered, and now it’s the same PPP when Swat is burning.

Stop Swat from Becoming East Pakistan | The Pakistani Spectator
 
Too alarmist.

With all due respect, the author expects Pakistan to do that which the US + NATO has not managed in seven years. No understanding of the complexities of waging a COIN campaign in mountainous terrain, nor of the role or lack of, being played by the civvies.

Merging thread with Swat thread.
 
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