What's new

Swat Operation II

Status
Not open for further replies.
Quite true.

The Taliban should not be forgiven for it, just like they should not be forgiven for the countless other atrocites and 'heinous crimes' they have committed.

The souls of the victims of 'Butcher Square' and their families cry out for justice and vengeance against the Taliban terrorists responsible.

How though...........Quiet frankly, as much as i admire and adore the Pakistani war machine, it has not lived upto my expectations in the Swat valley whatever the reasons may be.

Taliban should be punished but in my humble opinion but i think the government will try restoring calm in areas one by one. I think as soon as the USA and NATO wind their operations down in Afghanistan and the scene there is quiet, The PA will im sure i think enter the valleys and agencies and conduct operation similar to 2005 or the 70's pretaining to Balochistan to eliminate the pests. Flush the bad ones out, keep the moderates and open-minded individuals. Its going to come, the PA is waiting for a time for pressure to subside, economic situation to improve..........
 
.
How though...........Quiet frankly, as much as i admire and adore the Pakistani war machine, it has not lived upto my expectations in the Swat valley whatever the reasons may be.

Taliban should be punished but in my humble opinion but i think the government will try restoring calm in areas one by one. I think as soon as the USA and NATO wind their operations down in Afghanistan and the scene there is quiet, The PA will im sure i think enter the valleys and agencies and conduct operation similar to 2005 or the 70's pretaining to Balochistan to eliminate the pests. Flush the bad ones out, keep the moderates and open-minded individuals. Its going to come, the PA is waiting for a time for pressure to subside, economic situation to improve..........

We should keep the pressure on by stopping money, arms flow and supplies which can be done from outside. To basically deprive them of the necessities and will not be able to carry on fighting.
 
Last edited:
.
We should keep the pressure on by stopping money, arms flow and supplies which can be done from outside. To basically deprive them of the necessities and will not be able to carry on fighting.

Who are the outside elements you think supporting the TTS?
 
.
TNSM in talks with Swat TTP to end fighting
Friday, February 20, 2009
By our correspondent

MINGORA: The leaders of the Tanzim Nifaz Shariat-e-Muahammadi (TNSM) held talks with the Swat chapter of the Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) somewhere in Matta Tehsil of the troubled Swat Valley on Thursday to convince them to lay down their arms after the enforcement of the Nizam-e-Adl Regulation.

Till the filing of this report, two rounds of talks were held while the third round was reported to be in progress. Maulana Sufi Muhammad, along with his hundreds of black-turbaned activists, marched through the troubled areas — Kabal, Matta and Khwazakhela — to garner the people’s support for peace after the promulgation of the Nizam-e-Adl.

A 12-member negotiating committee held talks with the representatives of Maulana Fazlullah at an undisclosed location in Matta, the stronghold of the militants. Sources said two rounds of talks were held but the father-in-law and the son-in-law, both head of their own banned organisations, did not participate in it. They said representatives of the two sides were trying to create a conducive atmosphere and develop a strategy for talks between the two stalwarts.

It could not be learnt as to what was discussed in the two rounds of talks. The Swat militants had expressed their willingness to lay down their arms if the Shariah, agreed by Sufi Muhammad, was introduced in the mountainous Malakand division.

Sufi Muhammad had also assured the government to disarm Maulana Fazlullah and his militia if the Nizam-e-Adl, with his recommendations incorporated, was promulgated.

The people as well as the government have attached high hopes to the outcome of the talks between Fazlullah and Sufi Muhammad amid growing international pressure on truce with the militants. Sufi would inform Fazlullah of the details of the regulation and ask him to lay down arms and maintain peace in the region.


TNSM in talks with Swat TTP to end fighting
 
.
Troika decides to keep Army in Swat
Friday, February 20, 2009
By Asim Yasin

ISLAMABAD: The troika — President Asif Ali Zardari, Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani and Army Chief Gen Ashfaq Parvez Kayani — on Thursday decided to keep the Army in Swat till complete restoration of peace in the area.

In a meeting at the presidency, they discussed matters pertaining to the regional situation, including the Swat peace accord and the military operation in the tribal areas. It was the second meeting of the president, the prime minister and the COAS during the last 10 days in which they discussed matters relating to the national security.

According to sources, after reviewing the Swat situation, it was decided to adopt wait and see policy and keep the Army in Swat till complete restoration of peace and writ of the government.

Sources said they expressed the hope for a positive impact of the peace deal in Swat. “The issue of the ongoing military operation in Fata was also discussed at the meeting,” they added. Earlier, Gen Kayani held a one-on-one meeting with President Zardari and discussed professional matters.


Troika decides to keep Army in Swat
 
.
Swat: doctrine of necessity (in its purest form)
Islamabad diary
Friday, February 20, 2009
by Ayaz Amir

Those armchair warriors -- and there's no shortage of them out here -- who are wringing their hands over the Swat accord should ask themselves whether the government had any alternative. Necessity, and iron necessity at that, is the mother of this accord. The authorities were left with no other option because the Swat Taliban under the command of Maulana Fazlullah had fought the army to a standstill.

In Pakistan, as indeed elsewhere, sending in the army is the option of last resort. We had tried this option in Swat and it hadn't worked. In fact the Taliban, far from being defeated, were in the ascendant, their grip on Swat tighter than before the operation began. The army was there, as it still is, taking distant artillery shots at the Taliban, and occasionally sending in helicopter gunships, but for all that confined largely to its bunkers.

Guerrilla insurgencies are not defeated by such long-range or long-distance tactics. So what was the ANP government in Peshawar to do?

It impressed upon the federal government and the army the need for declaring some kind of Sharia law for the Malakand division (of which Swat is a part) so as to take the wind out of the sails of the insurgency. This was the demand of Sufi Muhammad -- Fazlullah's father-in-law and the founder of the Tanzim Nifaz-e-Shariat-e-Muhammadi (Movement for the imposition of Sharia) -- and if it was accepted Sufi Muhammad could be induced to call upon the Taliban to lay down their arms, something he is already trying to do.

It needs little genius to figure out that the Americans would be upset by such a deal. President Asif Zardari, as the nation suspects only too well, is very much America's man, as Pervez Musharraf was before him. But even he has had to go along with this deal because the deteriorating situation in Swat left no other choice. This has everything to do with what was possible, very little with Islam, Sharia or speedy justice.

Tired of all the killing, the people of Swat have welcomed this accord. Whether it survives or not -- my hunch is that it won't survive for long -- it already has had the effect of pitting Maulana Sufi Muhammad against his son-in-law. Sufi Muhammad's task is not easy, it being hard to persuade a victorious force to disarm voluntarily. Herein lie the seeds of discord between Sufi Muhammad and the Taliban.

So this is hardly capitulation. It is more like sensible politics, more like strategy, the indirect approach. When you can't beat your opponent head-on, it is best to try a flanking manoeuvre, the continuation of war by other means, although I don't think anyone in the Frontier government would have quite put it this way. Maulana Fazlullah can't have been overjoyed by the reception received in Mingora by his father-in-law, Sufi Muhammad. So something that discountenances the Swat Taliban, something that puts them out of humour and plants suspicion in their minds, is it good or bad?

The Swat accord is certainly proving more effective against the Swat Taliban than anything done by the army. Armchair warriors and critics in distant lands should therefore hold their fire until they see this latest saga playing itself out fully. The government should be extra careful not to give the Taliban any excuse to break the accord. If they do so nevertheless, the onus will be upon them to justify the return to arms.

So whether Sharia law in the real sense is imposed in Malakand or not, it is in our interest to say that Islamic justice has come. Instead of sowing doubts about the accord, we should put the best face on it.

The Americans of course are being stupid and sotto voce are muttering capitulation but for once we should ignore their signals of distress. This is not our war but it is our country and the Americans are not going to save it for us. We have to do this ourselves. Let the presidency and the army, the two key players from our side, resist American bullying and stick to the Swat accord. This is the only thing available on the table and minus it we go back to the pre-accord bloodletting.

Indeed, this accord is defensive philosophy at its best: declaring victory and getting out, a line the Americans may have to follow in Afghanistan when all their other gambits fail. The situation there is already beyond the repair of American arms and no surge -- no fresh troop induction like the 17,000 troop increase just decreed by President Obama -- is going to fix it.

This should be a time for introspection and the study of history, that of the Vietnam conflict and the Soviet intervention in Afghanistan above all.

At the height of their involvement in Vietnam the United States had half a million troops there. They threw more bombs on North and South Vietnam than the total tonnage of bombs thrown in the Second World War. They lost over 3,000 aircraft over the skies of Vietnam. Nothing worked because the population was against them, a people primed for resistance by the great Ho Chi Minh and the Vietnamese Communist Party.

The Soviet army was a tough army. Their special forces, Spetznatz commandos, were second to none. They had more troops in Afghanistan than those presently fielded by the western allies. They had a more effective grip on the major cities of Afghanistan than anything the Americans can claim. Even when they withdrew in Feb 1989, their protégé, Najibullah, survived for another three years and only fell when Boris Yeltsin's Russia stopped gasoline supplies (and also because Abdul Rashid Dostum defected to the mujahideen).

Nonetheless, through a deadly combination of Afghan geography, CIA and Saudi money, Pakistani help and Pakhtoon hardihood, the Soviets suffered defeat in Afghanistan. Let it be noted in passing that on his own terrain the Pakhtoon is amongst the toughest guerrilla fighters in the world.

Two factors have changed in this equation. Firstly, CIA and Saudi money has been replaced by poppy money. Pakistan may be facing bankruptcy but the Taliban are in a position to finance their own jihad. Secondly, against the Soviets Pakistan as a state was a sponsor of jihad. Not any more. Pakistan is now tied to America's apron strings because in a crunch its elite, civil and military, will always be a pawn in America's hands, the ethos of this elite predisposing it to play this role.

But the two other factors remain constant: Afghan geography and Pakhtoon hardihood. The Obama administration is welcome to try but all the signs suggest that in Afghanistan it is about to replicate the monumental failure in Vietnam. It will get tired -- of this we can be certain if Iraq is any guide, and before it Vietnam--but not before inflicting more punishment on Afghanistan. And more damage on Pakistan which is also caught up in this conflict.

Al Qaeda will remain an abiding American concern but the question likely to come to the fore sooner rather that later is whether Al Qaeda is best fought covertly, using the tremendous array of resources at America's command, or by putting forty or fifty thousand boots on the ground. An empire best fights distant wars through indirect means. Getting bogged down on the ground is a troubling sign, evidence of blundering.

So let us be careful in rushing to judgment over the Swat accord. It may fall apart tomorrow but it is still a model that the Pakistan army may have to follow in other parts of the tribal belt and which the Americans may have to follow when belated wisdom dawns about the futility of further conflict in Afghanistan.

Tailpiece: Who killed Musa Khankhel, Geo's correspondent in Mingora, Swat, a brave and dedicated journalist by all accounts? His family blames the security forces and he himself when alive spoke of threats to his life from the security forces. But he was killed in an area under the tight control of the Taliban. Clearly, someone was trying to send a message. But what precisely? TV channels reported the scenes of jubilation witnessed in Mingora on Sufi Muhammad's arrival. In whose interest was it to cut short those expressions of joy? His death underscores the tragedy Pakistan is going through. This is a time to think for ourselves rather than dance to the tune of distant powers.

Email: winlust@yahoo.com


Swat: doctrine of necessity (in its purest form)
 
.
Sufi, Mullah Fazlullah discuss peace in Swat

* TNSM delegation tries to convince Taliban leaders to lay down arms
* Fazlullah seeks one day to consult his shura

MINGORA: Swat Taliban chief Mullah Fazlullah discussed with TNSM chief Sufi Muhammad the Swat peace deal in a meeting at an undisclosed location in the Matta tehsil of the restive district on Thursday.

TNSM spokesman Izzat Khan told Daily Times Sufi and his delegation tried to convince Fazlullah and other Taliban leaders to disarm. He said that the TNSM chief told the Taliban that he too had given up his protest after the announcement that sharia law would be implemented in the Malakand division.

The spokesman said Fazlullah has sought one day for consultation with his shura (council). He would talk to his aides after the Friday prayer today to make a decision, Izzat Khan said.

NWFP Information Minister Mian Iftikhar Hussain visited the main Swat city of Mingora on Thursday and praised an earlier Taliban decision of a 10-day ceasefire.

He condemned the killing of a reporter in the city, warning that a ‘third hand’ could be trying to disrupt the peace process.

Sufi Muhammad had promised to use his influence to push the Taliban in the former tourist resort of Swat to stop fighting in exchange for a public vow by the government to impose sharia law in the region.

“They are discussing how to ensure peace and how to ensure the provision of speedy justice to the people,” Taliban spokesman Muslim Khan told AP. ghulam farooq/ap

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan
 
.
Maulana Sufi’s one-on-one peace talks with Maulana Fazlullah
Updated at: 1410 PST, Friday, February 20, 2009


SWAT: Defunct Tahrik-e-Nifaz Shariat Muhammadi (TNSM) and Tahrik Taliban leaders continued remaining engaged in third round of their talks.

Sources said that the defunct TNSM Chief Maulana Sufi Muhammad and defunct Tahrik Taliban Amir, Maulana Fazlullah were presently holding one-on-one peace talks at some unknown place at Matta here, which mainly focused on the enforcement of the Sharia Regulations.

Sources further said that the pulling out of forces, release of the prisoners and general amnesty to Taliban was demanded from the Fazlullah side during negotiations.

Maulana Sufi’s one-on-one peace talks with Maulana Fazlullah
 
.
are we sure talibans killed him????
i dont think so. its a third party which wants swat to stay as a battle field

We avoid giving fatwa or declaration ,until criminal or suspect trailed and court give any decision

In WAR both parties PA and Talaban killed each other, victory of Talaban proved that they were at right side ,now through peace they have to prove that shariah law is best for muslim society.

You have noticed many members in this forum are apposing shariah law ,which is alarming sign, they are murtad(kadaiani) or munafaqeen or mushrik but not muslim.
 
.
You have noticed many members in this forum are apposing shariah law ,which is alarming sign, they are murtad(kadaiani) or munafaqeen or mushrik but not muslim.

"Let everyone sweep infront of his own door and the whole world will be clean." - Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe

I advise you not to make such statements about other forum members. Their beliefs are their business NOT yours.

Coming back to the thread how will a Sharia court work?

Is it possible to ensure a fair trial for the defendant?
 
.
Coming back to the thread how will a Sharia court work?

Is it possible to ensure a fair trial for the defendant?

I believe that the bill as currently proposed will merely rename the existing magistrates as 'Qazi's'.

Lawyers will still be used and existing laws will be applicable, unless the Council On Islamic Ideology rules a law as being 'Un Islamic'. On the latter count there is reason to be hopeful, since the CII has been more progressive than our 'progressive politicians' recently.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JK!
.
Well, all I can determine that's really occurred is that the government has bought Sufi Mohammad for the price of the implementation of Sharia. What did your government receive? An agent to negotiate with the real holders of power and the decision as to whether SWAT will be at peace or not.

Additional terms, of course, now follow from THESE negotiations. The final bill shall be much higher.

Ayaz Amir writes,

"The authorities were left with no other option because the Swat Taliban under the command of Maulana Fazlullah had fought the army to a standstill."

Standstill indeed! Fighting? No. Not by any comparison to Bajaur earlier last fall. THAT was fighting. In truth, Amir agrees here,

"In fact the Taliban, far from being defeated, were in the ascendant, their grip on Swat tighter than before the operation began. The army was there, as it still is, taking distant artillery shots at the Taliban, and occasionally sending in helicopter gunships, but for all that confined largely to its bunkers."

That's not fighting. We've read the reports of Taliban and army checkpoints with eyesight of each other. We've read reports of taliban justice being meted in view of the military who had no orders to act...but there they were nonetheless.

The notion of victory even should the treaty collapse as it will divide Sufi Mohammad's followers from the TTP presumes that they'll throw their tangible support behind the government. Aren't they disarmed? Should they be re-armed, if so? That's not their responsibility and wouldn't those people best serve the nation's needs by staying out of the military struggle altogether?

It would be great if your government would take the lead in securing the nation's citizens instead of continually looking for local accomodation. It only contributes to the continued erosion of sovereign domain in my view.
 
.
Who are the outside elements you think supporting the TTS?

I hear sometimes Afghans, some times Tajiks and Uzbeks and or even Chechen also Indians too.

Who soever is doing this should not create trouble in a Pakistani territory, there is only one govt. and not a govt within a govt. All matters of concern should be solved amicably and in accordance with the Muslim law.

Who soever sheds the blood of Muslim is no more acting like a Muslim, Pak Govt have tried and continue to try to offer peace to those who are bent on killing, I have heard that this was one of those countless times that GOP has offered peace.

I would for once like to realy know who they are and what is there agenda. No body has told me clearly as to who they are, i am only speculating the above.

Cna somwone tell who they really are?
 
Last edited:
.
Somehow, I see this as a victory for the taliban in SWAT.
I get the strong feeling that our government is slightly going on it's knees for the Taliban to end this war, and if this is a good sign, I don't know.
Perhaps we need the restoration of peace and stability, so that we can grow and become stronger, and perhaps in future years to come, we'll be economically and politically be stable enough to root out this pesticide.
Anyways, in the "meantime", I would be hoping that girls for example are allowed to go to school and that things come under our government's control because it is a damn part of our country and it's a shame that we cannot control it, let us be a 3rd world country or not, if we can keep India out, then we can surely destroy these taliban pigs, be it a different type of war or not.
 
.
My thoughts exactly.


Terms of Surrender

By Irfan Husain
21 Feb, 2009

When Gen Niazi and his army of 93,000 surrendered to Indian forces in Dhaka in December 1971, there were angry demonstrations from Karachi to Rawalpindi.

Public fury was directed at the military high command and Gen Yahya Khan for having led the nation to this humiliating defeat.

However, in the wake of another surrender, this time in Swat, there has been no outpouring of grief and anger; just a sullen acceptance of the inevitable. Clerics, barely able to contain their glee, sat across the table from the NWFP’s chief minister, Amir Haider Hoti, and beamed at the cameras.

The federal and provincial governments have tried to put a brave face on this stinging reversal. Everybody from Asif Zardari downwards has protested that far from being a defeat, the imposition of the nizam-i-adl, or Sharia law, is somehow a great blessing for the people of Swat. And it is true that for now, the possibility of peace is what the valley needs after months of bloody conflict that has seen hundreds of civilians killed.

Although the 10-day truce generously announced by the local Taliban led in Swat by Maulana Fazlullah may provide some relief to a hard-pressed government, the insurgency is not going to disappear any time soon. The reality is that we are at the beginning of a very slippery slope. To imagine that the thugs who have been rampaging at will in Swat will meekly lay down their arms when the Pakistani state has rolled over is to delude ourselves.

A couple of years ago, when writing about Swat, I had used one of Lenin’s revolutionary maxims: ‘Probe with a bayonet: if you meet steel, stop. If you meet mush, then push.’ Time and again, extremists, terrorists and just plain criminals have been meeting mush, and they have been pushing. The result of this aggressive probing is that the state’s writ now barely extends beyond the boundaries of Mingora.

Once political space has been conceded to a group, it is very difficult to claw it back. We witnessed a similar surrender to Maulana Sufi Mohammad in the mid-1990s when another PPP government was in (nominal) charge. Then, too, there was an agreement to impose Sharia law in Malakand Division that got bogged down in the courts. But as far as the government of the day was concerned, it was willing to surrender as it was unable to put down the cleric’s revolt then, as it could not put down Maulana Fazlullah’s uprising this time around.

The major difference is that now, the militants who defeated the Pakistan Army are tougher, better armed and strengthened by the presence of Afghan, Chechen and Tajik fighters. Above all, they are far more cruel than their predecessors. They have routinely beheaded innocent people, and blown up approximately 200 girls’ schools. These are the killers the government is abandoning the people of Swat to.

Clearly, the first duty of any government is to protect its people. In this, the PPP and its allies have clearly failed. Despite its secular credentials, the ANP, the leading coalition partner in the NWFP, has cravenly surrendered a large part of its population and its territory to the most benighted elements in the country. To be fair, in the face of the army’s failure to crush the militants despite months of fighting and hundreds of civilian casualties, Hoti had few viable options.

For months now, Asif Zardari has been saying to anyone who will listen that the world should help Pakistan in its fight against the terrorists. But when the Americans offered to train our soldiers in anti-insurgency warfare, they were told we did not need their help. When their drones kill militants in the tribal areas, we lodge protests, and media commentators go ballistic. So how exactly should the world help?

Recently, President Zardari has appealed for a kind of Marshall Plan to support Pakistan’s socio-economic development. He argues that such an initiative would undercut the appeal of the jihadis. But this argument loses sight of the fact that the whole world is currently trying to cope with the economic mess it is in, and there is little spare change around. More importantly, the Taliban slaughter government officials engaged in any kind of development activities in the vast area they now control.

Increasingly, Zardari resembles a man with a begging bowl in one hand, and a gun in the other pointed at his own head. The reality is that for decades, we have sacrificed the bulk of our resources to support a vast defence apparatus we could ill afford. The extremist menace that threatens to destroy us was largely a creation of our own military establishment. And now that we need the army to defend us, we find it is not up to the task.

We need to face up to the fact that a lack of money is not the problem. What we really need is the political will to fight the monster confronting us today. Despite the concern of millions of Pakistanis, a vocal section of the establishment and the media are either in denial, or are cheering on the militants. Some have argued that the deal signed recently in Swat is actually good for the people.

Hoti is arguing that somehow, the ‘quick justice’ promised by Sufi Mohammad justifies his government’s surrender. The truth is that the Islamic courts to be set up are not based on case law and precedents. They rest, instead, on the wisdom and learning of the qazis presiding over the courts. From our knowledge of Pakistani clerics, it would need a brave or foolish person to place much faith in the justice provided by these worthies if they take over the courts.

In most countries, a single body of law governs all citizens. By handing over the people of Swat to the tender mercies of militants, the government has created a dangerous precedent. Now, any group of armed thugs can extort Pakistani territory as their fiefdom. Citizens will then have the choice of suffering their oppression, or fleeing. Soon, no area will be free from the Taliban, and their victory will be complete. Already, they are saying they will turn their attention to the rest of the country once they have consolidated their hold over Swat.

If the Taliban bayonet keeps meeting mush, it will soon be at every Pakistani’s throat.
 
.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom