Swaraj’s suggestion on Gita against secularism: NCP, SP

[Indian_Devil]

"Kamasutra is also religious Book"

 

[Black Widow]

I am an atheist and a cow eater, and i do not relate myself to any faith. But i was born in a Hindu household, so can comment on the faith and culture practiced by my families. And i am not preaching the greatness of hinduism nor do i believe it is, but the assimilation of several ideas into a greater ideology of hinduism.

Still it's Pagan worshiping in a way, Atheism (and Satan worshiping)still trumps any religion for any matter.

Aethism is also one way of Hinduism. Eating beef is also not a problem. Hinduism is based on recommendation, It recommend you the do and donts. Since we were agrarian and cattle was our asset, Hinduism recommended to save cattle.


Your statement summarize entire discussion.

And please call it Dharmic not Pagan.. Pagan word is invented by western who didn't understand our ideology...

 

[Indrani]

Yes and I never understand since when it became "religious Book". Religious books are those book which talk about KarmKandas (Method of religious living)

Religious and Non religious Book
1. Vedas :- Non religious book. Its just book of knowledge.
2. Geeta:- Non religious book
3. Mahabharata and Ramayana : Non religious book, it is epic poem, (If some one believe in Rama then its Biopic/Biography)
4. Puranas :- Few puranas are religious book since they talk about the religious work u do.
5. Manusmriti: religious book
6. Koran: religious book as it talk about how to become Muslim
7. Bible: religious Book , since it talk about how a christian live.
8. Aryabhattium, and other Science books: non religious book...

Just like "All glitter not gold" , "All books written in sanskrit is not Religious Book"




your very first statement is wrong.. "All book written in sanskrit is not religious book".. ppl like you will one say "Kamasutra is also religious Book"

Don't see Hinduism with Islam's/christianism's eye. Most of our books teach about Moral/Science/Philosophy/Economics/Medicine. Very few qualify as religious book in Hinduism.

How does a a book talking of religious living become a non-religious book? What are karma, dharma, moksha talked about in Gita if not principles of Hinduism. So now since you say Gita is a non-religious book, can I make a toilet seat with writings from Gita and sell on Flipkart? Are you sure it wont hurt anyone's religious sentiments?

Also Lord Krishna gave the sermons of Gita. Is Lord Krishna also not a religious figure? Is he the God of Muslims or an atheist or secular?

 

[Black Widow]

How does a a book talking of religious living become a non-religious book? What are karma, dharma, moksha talked about in Gita if not principles of Hinduism. So now since you say Gita is a non-religious book, can I make a toilet seat with writings from Gita and sell on Flipkart? Are you sure it wont hurt anyone's religious sentiments?

Also Lord Krishna gave the sermons of Gita. Is Lord Krishna also not a religious figure? Is he the God of Muslims or an atheist or secular?

First of all understand what is religious book...

Religious books: Those books which talk about religion Karmkand (way to live in a religion) are religious Book.

Non religious Book: The book giving generic knowledge, moral values to all etc. A biography of christ can not be considered as religious book . Biograohy is Mujammad is not religious book. Even you do something bad with Biography of Muhammad/Jesus you will be targeted by ppl.

Tell me in Geeta which shlok says "As a Hindu" you should do this? Few shlok of Geeta
1. focus on work, don't get distracted by result, if u work hard result will be good---Does it talk about Hinduism?


Similarly all shlokas are about moral values, All are inspiring, No shloka talk about "As a Hindu" u shud do this and don't do this...


So Geeta is not religious book...

How does a a book talking of religious living become a non-religious book? What are karma, dharma, moksha talked about in Gita if not principles of Hinduism. So now since you say Gita is a non-religious book, can I make a toilet seat with writings from Gita and sell on Flipkart? Are you sure it wont hurt anyone's religious sentiments?

Also Lord Krishna gave the sermons of Gita. Is Lord Krishna also not a religious figure? Is he the God of Muslims or an atheist or secular?

Sanjay narrated Geeta to Dhritrashtra. Lord Khrishna was a Human an by his great work he considered as lord.. Lord Krishna was born as a human and died as human.

He is Teacher of Humanity, He is not God of Hindus only.. Even Muslim and Christian should follow his teaching.

 

[Indrani]

First of all understand what is religious book...

Religious books: Those books which talk about religion Karmkand (way to live in a religion) are religious Book.

Non religious Book: The book giving generic knowledge, moral values to all etc. A biography of christ can not be considered as religious book . Biograohy is Mujammad is not religious book. Even you do something bad with Biography of Muhammad/Jesus you will be targeted by ppl.

Tell me in Geeta which shlok says "As a Hindu" you should do this? Few shlok of Geeta
1. focus on work, don't get distracted by result, if u work hard result will be good---Does it talk about Hinduism?


Similarly all shlokas are about moral values, All are inspiring, No shloka talk about "As a Hindu" u shud do this and don't do this...


So Geeta is not religious book...

That is your artistic definition of a religion which is not agreed to by the Muslims or the Christians. Islam is Quran plus Mohammad's life story and his behavior. More than Quran it is Mohammad that Muslim look towards when seeking how to live. So his biography is sacred for the Muslims.

Hindus too take inspiration from Mahabharata and Ramayana. Ram remains the maryada purshottam and more than referring to Puranas, it is Ramayana which molds the consciousness of Hindu society. Ram's life is the ideal we seek to in our society. Likewise Gita which talks about right and wrong is talking about Dharma and Karma which are the guidance for living in Hindu society. When they form the guidance of living itself, how do you say they do not, they are not speaking of a way to live?

Also the chicanery of the word Hindu. No, even our puranas do not talk about Hindu, so how do they become religious book according to you?

Did Shiva claim to be a Hindu? Did Hanuman claim to be a Hindu? So now all these divinities are non-Hindu? Who are they? Congrezzies?


Even Quran and Bible talk about everything from marriage to how to deal with enemies. Are these exclusive to Muslims? If not exclusive, then how do they become religious teachings?

 

[PlanetWarrior]

First of all understand what is religious book...

Religious books: Those books which talk about religion Karmkand (way to live in a religion) are religious Book.

Non religious Book: The book giving generic knowledge, moral values to all etc. A biography of christ can not be considered as religious book . Biograohy is Mujammad is not religious book. Even you do something bad with Biography of Muhammad/Jesus you will be targeted by ppl.

Tell me in Geeta which shlok says "As a Hindu" you should do this? Few shlok of Geeta
1. focus on work, don't get distracted by result, if u work hard result will be good---Does it talk about Hinduism?


Similarly all shlokas are about moral values, All are inspiring, No shloka talk about "As a Hindu" u shud do this and don't do this...


So Geeta is not religious book...





Sanjay narrated Geeta to Dhritrashtra. Lord Khrishna was a Human an by his great work he considered as lord.. Lord Krishna was born as a human and died as human.

He is Teacher of Humanity, He is not God of Hindus only.. Even Muslim and Christian should follow his teaching.

You clearly didn't read the Bhagvad Gita now did you ?

 

[Indrani]

Sanjay narrated Geeta to Dhritrashtra. Lord Khrishna was a Human an by his great work he considered as lord.. Lord Krishna was born as a human and died as human.

He is Teacher of Humanity, He is not God of Hindus only.. Even Muslim and Christian should follow his teaching.

Sanjay narrated Gita to Dhritarashtra because he had divine sight to see what was happening in the battle field. He also saw the swaroopa of Krishna that he showed Arjuna. So Lord Krishna while being in human form was no ordinary mortal. He was aware of his cosmic self and could attain that roop whenever where ever he wanted.

So now, according to you, even Krishna is not a god. Maybe we should print Krishna's face on toilets and sell too.

Yeah, yeah, now Muslims should follow Krishna. Do you follow Mohammed too, huh?

 

[scrumpy]

I don't see any harm in making it a national scripture, as it represent the culture of the civilisation. But Vedas should have been an ideal candidate.

Scripture by definition is a religious text. This would be against the secular principles on which the country was founded. Maybe it wouldn't have been as controversial if the suggestion was for it to be declared a national literature, national treasure or any such other nonsensical label.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

I am not denying its a religious text. And I am not asking minorities to study. And if you had studied in Tamil Nadu, you would have studied poetry on Hindu, Buddhist, Jain, Muslims and Christian poetry in Tamil language.

But declaring it as a National Scripture doesnt mean schools must forcefeed to kids. Its just a "status" that one literature written by Indians , within the boundaries of ancient India have been declared as a protective source. It means that we can take up the issue with other countries if they take action against like Banning Gita in Russia. Nothing more than that.
If Koran or Bible have been written in India, I would have asked them to be declared as National Scripture. I also support "Thirukkural" the world's most translated Indian literary work to be declared as one.

Of course not. This is not giving some 'written in India' type status. This is placing the Gita as an equivalent to QUran in Pakistan. The rest your arguments don't make sense. This isn't some tiger that needs 'protected' status. The Russians will ban whatever they want no matter what we say. On the other side these kinds of uneducated 'bans' can be easily reversed- the text and its content is usually enough to justify not inviting any such move. Russia example is the only one to have taken place in several centuries, even that was quickly overturned. We don't need to change our constitution to protect it. Besides the idea of national scripture itself is a stupid notion- none of the developed nations have national scriptures coz progress means separating state from religion- not umilically connect them for good. This is the equallent of imposing a hindu text on non-hindus.

Hmm, so we have atheists who have rejected Hinduism and now claim to be cow eaters unlike the abominable cow worshipers giving lectures on the greatness of Hinduism to a Hindutva party? Irony just checked itself into a mental asylum.

Old woman comes in with the most retarded arguments, like we're still in the 1930s. LISTEN GRANDMA KISHORE KUMAR DIED 40 YEARS AGO.

 

[Indrani]

Scripture by definition is a religious text. This would be against the secular principles on which the country was founded. Maybe it wouldn't have been as controversial if the suggestion was for it to be declared a national literature, national treasure or any such other nonsensical label.

The country was not founded on secular principles. It was founded on the principles of Hindutva. The first constitution written was replete with Hindu images from Ramayana and Mahabharata.

The word secular was sneaked into the constitution in the 1970s when the entire opposition party members were imprisoned by the Congress govt. It was neither debated nor passed by the act of parliament. It is illegal and invalid.

Of course not. This is not giving some 'written in India' type status. This is placing the Gita as an equivalent to QUran in Pakistan. The rest your arguments don't make sense. This isn't some tiger that needs 'protected' status. The Russians will ban whatever they want no matter what we say. On the other side these kinds of uneducated 'bans' can be easily reversed- the text and its content is usually enough to justify not inviting any such move. Russia example is the only one to have taken place in several centuries, even that was quickly overturned. We don't need to change our constitution to protect it. Besides the idea of national scripture itself is a stupid notion- none of the developed nations have national scriptures coz progress means separating state from religion- not umilically connect them for good. This is the equallent of imposing a hindu text on non-hindus.



Old woman comes in with the most retarded arguments, like we're still in the 1930s. LISTEN GRANDMA KISHORE KUMAR DIED 40 YEARS AGO.

You manage to creep out from whichever bridge you live under time to time to utter some inanities on PDF. Stop doing drugs and get a bath hobo. Shoo......

 

[Black Widow]

That is your artistic definition of a religion which is not agreed to by the Muslims or the Christians. Islam is Quran plus Mohammad's life story and his behavior. More than Quran it is Mohammad that Muslim look towards when seeking how to live.

Hindus too take inspiration from Mahabharata and Ramayana. Ram remains the maryada purshottam and more than referring to Puranas, it is Ramayana which molds the consciousness of Hindu society. Ram's life is the ideal we seek to in our society. Likewise Gita which talks about right and wrong is talking about Dharma and Karma which are the guidance for living in Hindu society. When they form the guidance of living itself, how do you say they do not, they are not speaking of a way to live?

Also the chicanery of the word Hindu. No, even our puranas do not talk about Hindu, so how do they become religious book according to you?

Did Shiva claim to be a Hindu? Did Hanuman claim to be a Hindu? So now all these divinities are non-Hindu? Who are they? Congrezzies?


Even Quran and Bible talk about everything from marriage to how to deal with enemies. Are these exclusive to Muslims? If not exclusive, then how do they become religious teachings?

Yes teaching of Koran and Bibile are Exclusively for Muslims and christians.. (or potential Muslim/christians)

I am inspired by biography of M K Gandhi.. So now Gandhi biography is religious book what stupid logic.

 

[Indrani]

Yes teaching of Koran and Bibile are Exclusively for Muslims and christians.. (or potential Muslim/christians)

I am inspired by biography of M K Gandhi.. So now Gandhi biography is religious book what stupid logic.

Gandhi's biography can be used by you as toilet paper and I do not think anyone will give a damn. But do not try to do that with Gita. Results will be telling.

That should tell you what is religion and what is not.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

Of course not. This is not giving some 'written in India' type status. This is placing the Gita as an equivalent to QUran in Pakistan. The rest your arguments don't make sense. This isn't some tiger that needs 'protected' status. The Russians will ban whatever they want no matter what we say. On the other side these kinds of uneducated 'bans' can be easily reversed- the text and its content is usually enough to justify not inviting any such move. Russia example is the only one to have taken place in several centuries, even that was quickly overturned. We don't need to change our constitution to protect it. Besides the idea of national scripture itself is a stupid notion- none of the developed nations have national scriptures coz progress means separating state from religion- not umilically connect them for good. This is the equallent of imposing a hindu text on non-hindus.



Old woman comes in with the most retarded arguments, like we're still in the 1930s. LISTEN GRANDMA KISHORE KUMAR DIED 40 YEARS AGO.

Actually this is what I had advocated. Its about written in India kinda status. But still I agree, making this book a national heritage one doesnt make food for poor people. Its for consumption for Hardcore ideological right wingers.

Since someone have started this debate, though unnecessarily, my point remains the same. Making this "National book" wont make India a Hindu nation, nor make kids learn Gita forcefully, nor our laws need to be in principle with Gita. Its just a status. And personally, I don care if BJP gives it or not. All I want is development.

Yes and I never understand since when it became "religious Book". Religious books are those book which talk about KarmKandas (Method of religious living)

Religious and Non religious Book
1. Vedas :- Non religious book. Its just book of knowledge.
2. Geeta:- Non religious book
3. Mahabharata and Ramayana : Non religious book, it is epic poem, (If some one believe in Rama then its Biopic/Biography)
4. Puranas :- Few puranas are religious book since they talk about the religious work u do.
5. Manusmriti: religious book
6. Koran: religious book as it talk about how to become Muslim
7. Bible: religious Book , since it talk about how a christian live.
8. Aryabhattium, and other Science books: non religious book...

Just like "All glitter not gold" , "All books written in sanskrit is not Religious Book"




your very first statement is wrong.. "All book written in sanskrit is not religious book".. ppl like you will one say "Kamasutra is also religious Book"

Don't see Hinduism with Islam's/christianism's eye. Most of our books teach about Moral/Science/Philosophy/Economics/Medicine. Very few qualify as religious book in Hinduism.

Doesnt Matter. If someone asks you to read Bible or Koran by not considering it as a religious text, how will be your response. ?
According to them, and many of the Hindus (who have not read it, including me) broadly speaking its a religious text. Only those who have read can tell its not.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

Actually this is what I had advocated. Its about written in India kinda status. But still I agree, making this book a national heritage one doesnt make food for poor people. Its for consumption for Hardcore ideological right wingers.

Since someone have started this debate, though unnecessarily, my point remains the same. Making this "National book" wont make India a Hindu nation, nor make kids learn Gita forcefully, nor our laws need to be in principle with Gita. Its just a status. And personally, I don care if BJP gives it or not. All I want is development.



Doesnt Matter. If someone asks you to read Bible or Koran by not considering it as a religious text, how will be your response. ?
According to them, and many of the Hindus (who have not read it, including me) broadly speaking its a religious text. Only those who have read can tell its not.

If in Scandinavia they didn't have to make a book national scripture, then it is clear that we can progress without that. Maybe instead of making us waste time on such silly debtes, govt can clarify Adani got a $ billion loan.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

If in Scandinavia they didn't have to make a book national scripture, then it is clear that we can progress without that. Maybe instead of making us waste time on such silly debtes, govt can clarify Adani got a $ billion loan.

I would put onus on people on developing a country. I can still see people spitting on roads even after Swach Bharat much publicised initiative. Unless people change, whatever the politicians try is not gonna work.