Suspend Nato supply in reaction to drones: Parliamentary Committee

[FaujHistorian]

.....


I only meant it in the context of Pakistan using Afghanistan as a training ground for terrorists against India during the Talibunny period.

Pakistan does not need Afghanistan to setup training camps against India. The camps there were Alqaida and some anti-Pakistan groups recruited Pakistanis and used those camps.

Taliboobies like Mullah Umer were anti-Pakistan as they saw us as infidels. Many Pakistanis and Indians settled in the West do not understand the true intentions of the likes of Mullah Umer.

Do you know what Mullah Umer did to our soccer team that went to Kandhar for a friendly game?

 

[Vinod2070]

You can see the reason India wants to be in Afghanistan in that article.. and its pros and cons to some extent..

OK, so what about it?

 

[Vinod2070]

Pakistan does not need Afghanistan to setup training camps against India. The camps there were Alqaida and some anti-Pakistan groups recruited Pakistanis and used those camps.

Well, it is a fact that terrorist camps were all over the place during that period and many of anti India terrorists were trained in Afghanistan and used by Pakistan.

Pakistan did try to force those militants who had no cause after Afghanistan into India and they caused much bloodshed in Kashmir before the tide was turned on them.

Taliboobies like Mullah Umer were anti-Pakistan as they saw us as infidels. Many Pakistanis and Indians settled in the West do not understand the true intentions of the likes of Mullah Umer.

Do you know what Mullah Umer did to our soccer team that went to Kandhar for a friendly game?

Even now, on this very forum, you will see many Pakistanis (settled in the West and in Pakistan and elsewhere) who are openly supportive of the return of AT and Mullah Umer.

I know a little about that incident with the soccer team. He perhaps didn't like them in shorts.

He didn't turn out as pliable as expected may be?

 

[FaujHistorian]

I have been to the Wagah border and seen that funny drill.

.....

Good. So you know that there is no "natural barrier" at the border. No mountains and no big oceans.

And those jawans on Pakistani side who do that funny -rooster like drill are the ONLY barrier between Afghan hoards and the mainland India.

And for a minute if you could put away all the conspiracy theories about ISI and Pak army, then and only then you would know that in the last 10 years, 100s and 1000s of these Jawans and their officers have given the ultimate sacrifice to stop the hoards from descending down to India.

This is from Indian perspective though.

For Pakistani perspective the same jawans have been fighting to protect their motherland aka Pakistan.

And how close the Taliboobies have come to the border gates where you were?

Let me give you a geographical perspective.

If you had gone few more miles on the GT Road past those gates on Wagah, you would have seen on the left hand side of the road a huge training academy of the Punjab police. This very academy has been attacked by the tribal hoards.

Few miles. Just few miles.


If these hoards can demolish few more places, they will be in your country and then you will realize the importance of Pakistan. But it will be too late.

What I am writing here is based on centuries of history about the Indian subcontinent. Mind you, not the 5th grade peela school sarkari text book history. But the real history that is free from religious and ethnic bias.

I hope you now understand that India will not be living isolated lives if Pakistani police and army are defeated.

peace.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Well, it is a fact that terrorist camps were all over the place /...

No all over the place. Just Khost. That was the hide out of severely anti-Pak groups and Ben ladeen and his terrorist Arabob friends.

......

Even now, on this very forum, you will see many Pakistanis (settled in the West and in Pakistan and elsewhere) who are openly supportive of the return of AT and Mullah Umer.

I know a little about that incident with the soccer team. He perhaps didn't like them in shorts.

He didn't turn out as pliable as expected may be?

Mullah Omer got "plowed" by the salfi Arabs, and thus he didn't care about "infidel Pakistan".

Pakistanis who support the likes of Mullah Umer have been plowed by the Salafis as well. And thus they have become traitors to their motherland (Pakistan) and traitors to their adopted homelands (US UK).

Peace.

 

[Vinod2070]

Good. So you know that there is no "natural barrier" at the border. No mountains and no big oceans

I agree that the Radcliffe line is an artificial one, though many on your side think it is a historical line that neatly separates the two people and their histories.

If that is what they want to believe, so be it. Whatever the past, we are two different people now. The last 60 years have made us so.

And those jawans on Pakistani side who do that funny -rooster like drill are the ONLY barrier between Afghan hoards and the mainland India.

And for a minute if you could put away all the conspiracy theories about ISI and Pak army, then and only then you would know that in the last 10 years, 100s and 1000s of these Jawans and their officers have given the ultimate sacrifice to stop the hoards from descending down to India.

This is from Indian perspective though.

For Pakistani perspective the same jawans have been fighting to protect their motherland aka Pakistan.

And how close the Taliboobies have come to the border gates where you were?

Let me give you a geographical perspective.

If you had gone few more miles on the GT Road past those gates on Wagah, you would have seen on the left hand side of the road a huge training academy of the Punjab police. This very academy has been attacked by the tribal hoards.

Few miles. Just few miles.


If these hoards can demolish few more places, they will be in your country and then you will realize the importance of Pakistan. But it will be too late.

What I am writing here is based on centuries of history about the Indian subcontinent. Mind you, not the 5th grade peela school sarkari text book history. But the real history that is free from religious and ethic bias.

I hope you now understand that India will not be living isolated lives if Pakistani police and army are defeated.

I am not denying that I am happy that Pakistan is a barrier between us and those tribal uncivilized hordes.

Of course, it is just because of accident of geography. As you also mentioned, they are working for Pakistan, not India.

Anyway, this is not the middle ages and we are not divided now like we were. If those hordes came, they will be hunted down to the last.

peace.

Don't mistake me, I want peace as well. Peace is what we need to make the lives of our people better.

I just don't want that peace to depend on the whimsies and fancies of anyone though. I would rather like that we work to secure it for our people.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Oh really? .. here something for you to read

A Nexus for Instability

This article is correct in stating what India is doing.

However it is deficient in documenting what Pakistan's response should be.


Pakistan cannot win in Afghanistan by keeping Afghan Pashtuns as tribal, ignorant, uneducated, and unstable.

Instead of sending taliboobies to Afghanistan, we need to send doctors and teachers to Jalalabad and Kandhhar. If India is developing roads in the North, we must take up work in developing Afghanistan's East and South.

Otherwise Afghanistan will remain unstable and so do we.

peace.

 

[FaujHistorian]

.....

Anyway, this is not the middle ages and we are not divided now like we were. If those hordes came, they will be hinted down to the last.
.......

This statement again is based on bravado. 700,000 strong Indian army has not been able to "hunt down" few thousand Kashmiri militants. You think they will be able to "hunt down" much more tribal hoards? Perhaps in the short run. But the resulting instability will dry up businesses in India and cause economic and agricultural collapse. The result will not be too different than the "middle ages".



Peace.

 

[Vinod2070]

No all over the place. Just Khost. That was the hide out of severely anti-Pak groups and Ben ladeen and his terrorist Arabob friends.

Now, what do you have to say about this report!

The Zia regime crushed the Shia movement ruthlessly. In August 1988, the Pakistan Army inducted a large Sunni tribal force from the NWFP and the Federally-Administered Tribal Areas (FATA), led by Osama bin Laden, into Gilgit and it massacred hundreds of Shias and crushed their revolt. The hatred of the Shias for Osama bin Laden and his Al Qaeda dates from this period.

MASSACRES OF SHIAS IN IRAQ & PAKISTAN---THE BACKGROUND

There are even more links for this issue.

So it seems Bin Laden was close to the PA at some time.

Mullah Omer got "plowed" by the salfi Arabs, and thus he didn't care about "infidel Pakistan".

Pakistanis who support the likes of Mullah Umer have been plowed by the Salafis as well. And thus they have become traitors to their motherland (Pakistan) and traitors to their adopted homelands (US UK).

Peace.

I appreciate your thoughts.

 

[Vinod2070]

This statement again is based on bravado. 700,000 strong Indian army has not been able to "hunt down" few thousand Kashmiri militants. You think they will be able to "hunt down" much more tribal hoards? Perhaps in the short run. But the resulting instability will dry up businesses in India and cause economic and agricultural collapse. The result will not be too different than the "middle ages".

Peace.

The militants have been hunted down. Now there is hardly any terror in the valley. Anyway, an insurgency is more difficult to deal with as you need to avoid the damage to your own people.

Anyway, the threat of those hordes to India is speculation at this point. They have their hands full in their own places.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Now, what do you have to say about this report!



MASSACRES OF SHIAS IN IRAQ & PAKISTAN---THE BACKGROUND

There are even more links for this issue.
......

My heart fills with deep anguish anytime I see the horrendous treatment of Pakistani minorities.

Shias like other minorities must be protected treated as equal. However we the majority folks in Pak have done a terrible job in this.

Coming back to the link, I read through it. But Mr. Raman a retired Indian Baboo seems to be f@rting and spinning a lot of constipated conspiracy theories using all the key words that would bring up his anti-Pakistan articles in the google search.

I have to find some independent news sources that would corroborate Mr. Raman's assertions about Gilgit. I have family members posted in Kashmir both in civilians and military positions and they all are professional folks who would not kill or conspired to kill a Shia purely for any distorted religious reasons. Thus Pak army allowing Ben Ladeen to physically lead a massacre may not be correct.

Mr. Raman also fails to give any background (perhaps he doesn't know, or he doesn't want to) of Shia Sunni conflict in Pakistan.

Thanks to the funding by Khomeni regime in the post-1979 era, Shias were first to setup of militant terrorist outfits in Pakistan. Quetta incident happend long before SSP came into being. As a result there was a Shia-sunni tussle not only in Gilgit but in other parts of Pakistan.

Pakistani Shias got money form Iran formed militant and political organizatoins througout Pakistan in cities and in colleges and universities. A bit later Pakistani Sunnis got money from Saudi and then butchered each other in many many places throughout Pakistan. 100s of miles away from gilgit, even Karachi had a HUGE Shia-Sunni tussle.

Money coming from Iran has dried up thanks to the international sanctions. So Shia militants have not been active. But Sunni-salafis are still getting money so the carnage is still on.

ben Ladeen being a salafi, could have been involved in funding Sunni terrorists like SSP, but making him a commander supported by PA is a long stretch.

peace.

 

[khurasaan1]

The US/NATO routes shold be shut down cuz US/NATO dont have right to kill the innocent civilians of Afghanistan..even they r Talibaans or whoever that is their land . They belong there, they can do whatever they want to do ..they have their own way of life, dont take dictations from anybody...US/NATO should stay away from Afghanz business...and get the hell outa there before its too late for them...

 

[Vinod2070]

I have to find some independent news sources that would corroborate Mr. Raman's assertions about Gilgit. I have family members posted in Kashmir both in civilians and military positions and they all are professional folks who would not kill or conspired to kill a Shia purely for any distorted religious reasons. Thus Pak army allowing Ben Ladeen to physically lead a massacre may not be correct.

Talibanization of the heart | Pak Tea House

A Pakistani source for the same events.

You can go a few more years earlier in 1984 when General Zia sent his notorious lashkar led and supervised by no other than Brigadier Musharraf aka General Musharraf, the enlightened, the moderate. This proto-Talibanic lashkar not just burnt alive hundreds of the Shias of Gilgit, it burnt alive the animals too owned by the Shias. Of course, this can be justified because those animals were not human, Muslim, or Pakistani.

 

[mjnaushad]

Talibanization of the heart | Pak Tea House

A Pakistani source for the same events.

PAKTEAHOUSE

 

[Vinod2070]

PAKTEAHOUSE

Well, it is obviously not a well publicized event.

Is it not a Pakistani site?