Super Su-30MKI: From Air Dominance To Air Supremacy

[Skull and Bones]

Hey buddy am sorry for confusion but i think i posted pic of su 33 as su 35 has no canards ..

That's Sukhoi 34 Fullback.

It can ring Hell's bell

 

[redrj]

Unless a Twin seat variant is available IAF wont' think about it i guess...

And moreover, MMRCA and PAK FA will be our last Induction of foreign planes i think... IAF with current orders will have about 300 su30mki, 130-160 MMRCA, AMCA and more than 150 of 250 PAK FA ordered as their frontline fighters... so another expansion after this might be indigenous....

 

[GORKHALI]

Why would you want a technological demonstrator only when the Su-35S is already available.But I am sure IAF won't go for the Su-35S unless the Russians make a twin seat variant even then I suppose it would be highly unlikely for the IAF to go for them.

Plz delete that image mate of su 35 as it's more likely to be su 33 as it got canards .........

 

[lepziboy]

But su-35 is already a close cousin of su-30mki they have only liitle difference in hardware and software.maybe after these upgrades they will be the same

 

[GORKHALI]

Everybody plz do edit your post who quoted my Su 35 image...

Regards,
Pandora

 

[saumyasupratik]

Hey buddy am sorry for confusion but i think i posted pic of su 33 as su 35 has no canards ..

Su-27M/Su-35 has canards.The Su-35BM/Su-35S has no canards this is the deep modernisation variant of the Su-35/Su-27M.

 

[sancho]

Su-27M/Su-35 has canards.The Su-35BM/Su-35S has no canards this is the deep modernisation variant of the Su-35/Su-27M.

That's correct, our MKI got the changes from the initial Su 35 and to some extend from the Su 37, (canards, TVC, radar), the Russians instead did not fielded the Su 35 and went with the modernised version the BM, or as the serial production version seems to be called, Su 35S.

Su 35:

Su 35BM:

 

[lepziboy]

after these upgrades will MKI be at par with 35BM?

 

[sancho]

after these upgrades will MKI be at par with 35BM?

In some fields yes, in other no. The radar side for example. The BM uses the IRBIS - E PESA radar, a further development of BARS in the MKI, but the upgraded MKIs will get AESA (BARS AESA, or Zhuk AE). IRST should be the same, if the Trishul blog is right, MKI will get a further upgrade of the AL 31 engine, but I don't think the figures they stated are correct. The BM has the S117 engines, same that are used in the T50 prototypes and both proved supercruise capabilities. The BM is also said to get 3D TVC, which is better then the version of MKI and it also gets ECM wingtip pods, to integrate more EWS capabilities. Sudhir007 once posted an MKI model, that showed similar pods and other sensors, but developed by DARE, so we might get an indigenous/Israeli upgrade here.
The biggest difference should be the RCS, because the BM not only will integrate more composites and therfor more RAM materials, but also lacks the canards and twin seat config. The MKI most likely will remain with the canards, to make it more maneuverable at slow speeds and dogfights, where the BM has advantages with a better TWR anyway.

At the end it might be the same as it is right now, the MKI is the most advanced Su 30 version and in terms of capability somewhere between Su 35BM and Su 34.

 

[Kinetic]

Sengupta is very unreliable source. Pls think before posting his innovative ideas those are far from reality.

 

[koushik]

But su-35 is already a close cousin of su-30mki they have only liitle difference in hardware and software.maybe after these upgrades they will be the same

su-30MkI is a mixture of the Su-30,the Su-35 and the Su-35.For eg- the MKI uses the N-011M Bars radar just like the Su-37 as well as 2D TVC of the Su-37.on the other hand the MKI has airframe similarities and software similarities with the Su-35.

 

[saumyasupratik]

This might be of help give a rough idea about the history of flanker variants.

MARS Computer Systems

 

[sancho]

Sengupta is very unreliable source. Pls think before posting his innovative ideas those are far from reality.

I am still undecided on that actually. I do think that he is not the most reliable source, but he often has very interesting infos, especially when it's about the specs of Indian developments, or procurments.

In regard to the MKI upgrade I also had some reservations, but I do think if we go for more thrust it will be a modification of the engine that HAL already produces, instead of a new licence production of the S117 engine (although that is an upgrade as well). IAF seems not to want the S117 engine for Pak Fa / FGFA and puts pressure on the development of the new AL41 engine, that's why I think if we see HAL producing a new Russian engine, it will only be that one and not the S117 inbetween.

 

[Kinetic]

I am still undecided on that actually. I do think that he is not the most reliable source, but he often has very interesting infos, especially when it's about the specs of Indian developments, or procurments.

Sorry for late reply. Earlier wrote a reply but failed to post it due to some net problem.

I am more confirmed now that Prasun is very unreliable. His second incarnation is worse. Few days back he wrote an article where he said IA is buying or bought Skyranger air defence gun while there is no single news report about it and the company Rheinmetall is actually black listed by MoD. I will be more happy than anyone else to see Skranger for Indian armed forces and I have talked about it many times in this forum. There are few other areas where he is lying caught red handed.

In regard to the MKI upgrade I also had some reservations, but I do think if we go for more thrust it will be a modification of the engine that HAL already produces, instead of a new licence production of the S117 engine (although that is an upgrade as well). IAF seems not to want the S117 engine for Pak Fa / FGFA and puts pressure on the development of the new AL41 engine, that's why I think if we see HAL producing a new Russian engine, it will only be that one and not the S117 inbetween.

Actually its true that there is a project called 'Super-30' for upgrading MKI to new standard, AESA and new sensors, engines etc are part of it but not sure about the RCS. What PS wrote in the article was already known mostly expect his usual few titbits which will be wrong as usual.


I think S117 not capable enough to meet the requirements of IAF thats why they are pitching for new engine. But PAK FA/FGFA engine is not yet ready for test, so its a long way. I think they as you said new version of AL41 will be good.

 

[sancho]

Sorry for late reply. Earlier wrote a reply but failed to post it due to some net problem.

I am more confirmed now that Prasun is very unreliable. His second incarnation is worse. Few days back he wrote an article where he said IA is buying or bought Skyranger air defence gun while there is no single news report about it and the company Rheinmetall is actually black listed by MoD. I will be more happy than anyone else to see Skranger for Indian armed forces and I have talked about it many times in this forum. There are few other areas where he is lying caught red handed.

Hi Kinetic, I noticed that article too and was eagerly searching for an confirmation, because I am all for JV with Rheinmetall and the Skyranger, so it was interesting to read about it. AFAIK Rheinmetall was not blacklisted, only recommended, but no charges, or investigations have been laid against them.

According this report:

Rheinmetall was dropped from the list when Indian procurement authorities realized it was working with banned South African company Denel.

Indian towed-gun deal hits another snag


If you get more news on Rheinmetall, or the Skyranger please let me know!