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Sukhoi PAK-FA / FGFA: Updates,News & Discussions

India and Russia Reach Agreement Over 5th Generation Fighter Aircraft

New Delhi and Moscow purportedly have finally agreed to a work-share agreement for the co-production of a new warplane.

L1001025
By Franz-Stefan Gady
September 12, 2016


After repeated delays, India and Russia have agreed to a detailed work-sharing agreement for the joint production of design and production of a new fighter jet under the so-called joint Sukhoi/HAL Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) project, known in India as the Perspective Multi-role Fighter (PMF), according to Indian media reports.

“From a preliminary document that was barely two dozen pages, we have agreed on a 650 page detailed plan that specifies exactly what all will be shared,” an unidentified Indian defense official told The Economic Times. A final contract is expected to be signed in early 2017.

The talks between Indian and Russian defense officials were allegedly accelerated ahead of an Indian-Russian summit to be held in Goa on October 15. As I reported in January, Russian President Vladimir Putin and Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi failed to reach an agreement during a bilateral meeting in Moscow in December 2015.

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The FGFA/PMF project has been hampered by repeated delays since the start of the project in 2007 and the signing of a preliminary $295 million design contract in 2010. In 2015, Indian Defense Minister Manohar Parrikar decided to make one last push toward reaching an agreement with Russia. I explained:

Delays were caused by New Delhi and Moscow disagreeing over many fundamental aspects of the joint development project including work and cost share, aircraft technology, as well as the number of aircraft to be ordered. After evaluating the first PAK FA T-50 prototype (the Russian prototype of the PMF), the Indian Air Force (IAF) wanted more than 40 changes addressing, among other things, perceived weaknesses in the plane’s engine, stealth, and weapon-carrying capabilities.

Russia announced in late 2015 that it would only induct a squadron (18-24 aircraft) of PAK FA fighter aircraft, and procure additional Sukhoi Su-35 aircraft instead. The original deal involved Russia procuring 250 and India 144 aircraft at a cost of around $30 billion by 2022. As a result, India threatened to abandon the project in its entirety. Russia in turn made a number of concessions including an offer to cut down its financial contribution from $6 to $ 3.7 billion for three PAK FA T-50 prototypes and substantial technology transfers.

Despite the agreeing on a work-share plan, problems with the FGFA/PMF project nevertheless will remain (See: “Russia Tests Components of New 6th Generation Fighter Jet on 5th Generation War Plane”):

Russia’s defense industry is still facing technical (as well as financial) hurdles including designing a new engine for the aircraft, given that PAK FA prototypes are currently using engines also installed on Sukhoi Su-35S 4++ generation multi-role fighter jets, calling into question whether the PAK FA can genuinely be classified as an 5th generation aircraft

As part of the effort to salvage the defense deal, Moscow has also agreed to let Indian test pilots fly the PAK FA T-50 prototype currently undergoing flight trials in Russia. Hundreds of flight tests have taken place over the last months and the Russian Air Force expects the first aircraft to be inducted into its ranks in 2017. Nevertheless, many senior officers in the IAF remain skeptical about the aircraft’s affordability and capabilities.


http://thediplomat.com/2016/09/indi...reement-over-5th-generation-fighter-aircraft/

i am skeptical russians and chinese can build a 5th generation fighter
 
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One thing I know that India desperately need an engine tech,to be precise the know how aka art of making/designung a working jet engine. And India is collaborating with Russian in developing fgfa. Then why the hell we are not clubbing with them in fgfa engine development,AFAIK it will be having beastly capable engine. I think it will be more logical than begging(most of the other Indians may not agree with me regarding this word ) for the tech from uncle Sam on a decades old engine like f404 .
@PARIKRAMA @Abingdonboy @Ankit Kumar @kurup
 
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One thing I know that India desperately need an engine tech,to be precise the know how aka art of making/designung a working jet engine. And India is collaborating with Russian in developing fgfa. Then why the hell we are not clubbing with them in fgfa engine development,AFAIK it will be having beastly capable engine. I think it will be more logical than begging(most of the other Indians may not agree with me regarding this word ) for the tech from uncle Sam on a decades old engine like f404 .
@PARIKRAMA @Abingdonboy @Ankit Kumar @kurup
True, let HAL take part in the engine development. It will be invaluable experience to them.
Considering our $3.7 billion Investment why not some more for engine workshare?
Its still not late, production engine is 5+ years away.
 
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One thing I know that India desperately need an engine tech,to be precise the know how aka art of making/designung a working jet engine. And India is collaborating with Russian in developing fgfa. Then why the hell we are not clubbing with them in fgfa engine development,AFAIK it will be having beastly capable engine. I think it will be more logical than begging(most of the other Indians may not agree with me regarding this word ) for the tech from uncle Sam on a decades old engine like f404 .
@PARIKRAMA @Abingdonboy @Ankit Kumar @kurup

I guess it's more to do with their lack of interest in involving us in engine R&D than our interest to collaborate with them for developing the engine. Russians helped us for many things over the past, however they never ever let us close to the engine tech. Not even the Chinese received any help from Russians for engines, and I guess that's not set to change in future too.

Good Day!
 
. . .
One thing I know that India desperately need an engine tech,to be precise the know how aka art of making/designung a working jet engine. And India is collaborating with Russian in developing fgfa. Then why the hell we are not clubbing with them in fgfa engine development,AFAIK it will be having beastly capable engine. I think it will be more logical than begging(most of the other Indians may not agree with me regarding this word ) for the tech from uncle Sam on a decades old engine like f404 .
@PARIKRAMA @Abingdonboy @Ankit Kumar @kurup

I just want to share my view on this and hopefully, my flags wouldn't force you (anyone) take it as offensive.

Just calculate the time, money, manpower, dedication and devotion with respect to Russia achievements in this subject then, for the sake of science and to honour it, I feel atleast 75℅ of Russia's spending need to be spent by any country wanted such level achievements in Engine production. Or we can say that this tech deserves such respect being given by Russia and money alone is not the solution or tool for this so the day any nation/India spent all that or sufficiently, you will be seeing results.

I am not denying that India cannot do that but a view point to look at it by this as well

@PARIKRAMA
 
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Cq3SNiVWEAAXRoI.jpg



KURYER ‏@RSS_40
055 & 053 Jul 2016 via (c) V.Savitsky
 
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They have kept a lot of it secret. NPF Mikran set up production facilities 1-2 years ago. The new radar for the Mig-35 is also fully digital based on GaN. GaN doesn't have thermal issues.

Anyway-
https://www.rt.com/news/t50-missile-advanced-guidance-643/

https://www.rt.com/news/321738-russian-stealth-pak-fa/


PAK FA is ready for production with these technologies.

Otoh, Northrop recently won the contract to develop digital radars.
https://globenewswire.com/news-rele...tronically-Scanned-Array-AESA-Technology.html

Meaning, the F-22 and F-35 are still years away from these technologies.

Anyway, this is irrelevant to India because we have chosen optical radars, that's a step ahead. So no GaN for us, that will be obsolete too, in about 3-5 years. So this radar, when ready, won't just detect the F-22 and the F-35, but also detect a pimple on the pilot's face from hundreds of kilometres away.

We both know rt is not a reliable source. is there any patent related or western independent one?
If they are ready jump in to photonics why are they not marketing GAN tech aggressively ?
 
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We both know rt is not a reliable source. is there any patent related or western independent one?

The news is from KRET. It's on their website.

If they are ready jump in to photonics why are they not marketing GAN tech aggressively ?

They are. But it's all directly through the right channels. The Russians are making these technologies for RuAF and IAF first. So open marketing will come much later, once export versions are made for other countries, particularly through the PAK FA and Flanker upgrades.

So the GaN will become the basis for the initial version of PAK FA. The photonics may come in a little later, after 2021.
 
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