Sukhoi PAK-FA / FGFA: Updates,News & Discussions
- Thread starter DARKY
- Start date
kurup
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2012
- Messages
- 10,563
- Reaction score
- -2
- Country
- Location
Flat Nozzle for 3D TVC... a good art.
Very nice CGI .............looks great ...........
David James
BANNED
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2012
- Messages
- 541
- Reaction score
- 0
FGFA Quantum leap for Indian aerospace
The signing of the Sukhoi T-50 fifth generation fighter aircraft contract propels India to joint developer of the worlds most advanced stealth aircraft.
FGFA Quantum leap for Indian aerospace
Russian fifth-generation fighter jet - Sukhoi T-50. Source: ITAR-TASS
Two significant developments have stirred up the world of military aviation this year. In March, the U.S. Air Force revealed it had started work to field a new Long Range Strike Bomber by the 2020s. This will be first new American strategic bomber to be built after the Cold War.
How much the global balance of power has shifted since the Cold War days was clear when it was revealed that the aircraft the American bomber might encounter in the skies will have a large Indian signature in more ways than one. In August, the Indian Air Force announced that India and Russia are getting set to ink the final R&D contract for the Sukhoi T-50 fifth generation fighter aircraft (FGFA) by the end of the year or early-2013. The contract is worth more than US$ 11 billion, and according to the terms of the agreement both countries will share 50 percent of the costs.
That the FGFA would fly was never in doubt. (To meet its air defence requirements, Russia was committed to the T-50 but as the American F-35 programme has demonstrated, having partners translates into assured orders.) The only uncertain component of the programme was the extent of Indian participation. In the past couple of years there was a lot of speculation and derisive comments about Indias involvement. Sceptics felt it was limited to merely offering suggestions as to what the IAF wanted such as two seats or one while the more charitable ones believed Indias contributions would be in avionics and software.
The IAF chiefs visit to Moscow last month finally lifted the veil of secrecy about Indias participation in the worlds most eagerly awaited fighter aircraft. It is now clear that Hindustan Aeronautics Ltds Ozar facility at Nashik in western India will get three prototypes in 2014, 2017 and 2019, and they will be flown by Indian test pilots.
India moves into the big league
What defence observers have missed is that the FGFA is a quantum leap for Indias armaments industry, especially HAL. After decades of dabbling in joint production a euphemism for screwdriver technology Indias aerospace sector will finally step up to joint development.
This will catapult India to a new level where it will finally be able to develop advanced stealth aircraft on its own. Not even Americas leading partners in the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter programme, such as Turkey or the UK, have access to such red hot technology. Instead of being a sidekick, India will be a joint partner in a leading military project.
Russia has already given the draft R&D contract to HAL. It will include the cost of designing, infrastructure build-up at Ozar, prototype development and flight testing. India will soon have scientists and test pilots based both in Russia and Ozar during the R&D phase up to 2019.
An IAF official told Janes that the jointly developed aircraft draws upon the basic structural and system design of the Russian FGFA technology demonstrator with modifications to meet the IAF specifications, which are much more stringent.
The IAF is hopeful production fighters will roll out of the factory gates by 2022. Up to 250 of these aircraft will be inducted at an estimated cost of $35 billion. Russia will buy a similar number. While it is never easy to place a price tag on such a constantly evolving platform, the IAF estimates the cost per plane at $100 million. The total cost, including options and the value of production aircraft, will make this the biggest defence programme ever in Indias history.
Potent threat
Although the T-50s specifications remain classified, reports indicate it features advanced stealth capability and supersonic cruising speed. Here is what Air Power Australia says: The stealthy T-50, albeit in an early phase of development, is showing naked air combat power in the form of extreme plus agility and persistence that, with the addition of advanced sensors, countermeasures and weapons, will likely soundly defeat the F-22 Raptor but will certainly annihilate the F-35 and the Super Hornet.
This is an explosive statement but coming from ace aircraft experts, the FGFA portends a scary decade ahead for Western air defences and pilots.
Tuning the T-50
Clearly, the designers arent sitting idle. A series of developments suggests the FGFA has achieved irresistible propulsion. According to the website of Russias United Aircraft Group, which owns the Sukhoi bureau, the company has tested three T-50 prototypes in various modes, totalling around 180 sorties, including aerial refuelling hook-ups with a Russian Air Force Il-78 tanker, AESA radar scans, and large angle of attack and super manoeuvrability test flights.
Carlo Kopp of Air Power Australia and legendary aircraft analyst Bill Sweetman wonder whether the current T-50 represents the definitive configuration. Today's round nozzles and the curvature of the aft nacelles are not at first glance stealth-optimised, and the engine is not fully masked head-on by the inlet duct, they write in an article in Aviation Week.
To be sure, those are exactly the areas India and Russia will be working on in the months and years ahead. The IAF, for instance, has specified more than 40 improvements to the design following its observation of flying trials.
For instance, in the early stages of the programme, the IAF was keen on a two-seater fighter bomber, and in fact indicated a requirement for at least 166 single-seat and 48 twin-seat aircraft.
But since then it has jettisoned that demand will go in for only single-seat jets now. The reason is that a second cockpit will compromise the stealth capabilities by at least 15 percent, apart from adding to the weight and reducing fuel capacity.
Exploring exports
Unlike the dollar-guzzling F-35 which perhaps wouldnt fly without exports, the T-50 remains viable because of lower development costs and large pre-orders from Russia and India. Still exports cant hurt. According to the IAF, the broad scope of bilateral cooperation during the joint project covers the design and development of the aircraft, its production and joint marketing to other countries.
The Centre for the Analysis of Strategies and Technologies (CAST), a Moscow-based independent defence and foreign policy think-tank, says that while India will be the first FGFA export customer, Vietnam will be probably its second buyer. CAST Director Ruslan Pukhov believes every third user of the Su-27/30 family of aircraft could be a customer for the FGFA.
Russias legacy
For both Russia and India the FGFA programme will be a bold new gambit, as it will overshadow even the highly successful BrahMos missile project. For, while BrahMos is also a 50:50 India-Russia venture, it is basically Indias baby; Russia has turned down an offer to buy the missile as it has the equally capable Club.
However, the FGFA programme could be a template for further defence cooperation between India and Russia. As its economy grows, India is increasingly seeking quality armaments for its armed forces and is keen to wean itself away from imports. Russia on the other hand has the knowhow and experience to produce highly capable weapons platforms. Together, they can ensure that legacy remains intact.
FGFA
The signing of the Sukhoi T-50 fifth generation fighter aircraft contract propels India to joint developer of the worlds most advanced stealth aircraft.
FGFA Quantum leap for Indian aerospace
Russian fifth-generation fighter jet - Sukhoi T-50. Source: ITAR-TASS
Two significant developments have stirred up the world of military aviation this year. In March, the U.S. Air Force revealed it had started work to field a new Long Range Strike Bomber by the 2020s. This will be first new American strategic bomber to be built after the Cold War.
How much the global balance of power has shifted since the Cold War days was clear when it was revealed that the aircraft the American bomber might encounter in the skies will have a large Indian signature in more ways than one. In August, the Indian Air Force announced that India and Russia are getting set to ink the final R&D contract for the Sukhoi T-50 fifth generation fighter aircraft (FGFA) by the end of the year or early-2013. The contract is worth more than US$ 11 billion, and according to the terms of the agreement both countries will share 50 percent of the costs.
That the FGFA would fly was never in doubt. (To meet its air defence requirements, Russia was committed to the T-50 but as the American F-35 programme has demonstrated, having partners translates into assured orders.) The only uncertain component of the programme was the extent of Indian participation. In the past couple of years there was a lot of speculation and derisive comments about Indias involvement. Sceptics felt it was limited to merely offering suggestions as to what the IAF wanted such as two seats or one while the more charitable ones believed Indias contributions would be in avionics and software.
The IAF chiefs visit to Moscow last month finally lifted the veil of secrecy about Indias participation in the worlds most eagerly awaited fighter aircraft. It is now clear that Hindustan Aeronautics Ltds Ozar facility at Nashik in western India will get three prototypes in 2014, 2017 and 2019, and they will be flown by Indian test pilots.
India moves into the big league
What defence observers have missed is that the FGFA is a quantum leap for Indias armaments industry, especially HAL. After decades of dabbling in joint production a euphemism for screwdriver technology Indias aerospace sector will finally step up to joint development.
This will catapult India to a new level where it will finally be able to develop advanced stealth aircraft on its own. Not even Americas leading partners in the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter programme, such as Turkey or the UK, have access to such red hot technology. Instead of being a sidekick, India will be a joint partner in a leading military project.
Russia has already given the draft R&D contract to HAL. It will include the cost of designing, infrastructure build-up at Ozar, prototype development and flight testing. India will soon have scientists and test pilots based both in Russia and Ozar during the R&D phase up to 2019.
An IAF official told Janes that the jointly developed aircraft draws upon the basic structural and system design of the Russian FGFA technology demonstrator with modifications to meet the IAF specifications, which are much more stringent.
The IAF is hopeful production fighters will roll out of the factory gates by 2022. Up to 250 of these aircraft will be inducted at an estimated cost of $35 billion. Russia will buy a similar number. While it is never easy to place a price tag on such a constantly evolving platform, the IAF estimates the cost per plane at $100 million. The total cost, including options and the value of production aircraft, will make this the biggest defence programme ever in Indias history.
Potent threat
Although the T-50s specifications remain classified, reports indicate it features advanced stealth capability and supersonic cruising speed. Here is what Air Power Australia says: The stealthy T-50, albeit in an early phase of development, is showing naked air combat power in the form of extreme plus agility and persistence that, with the addition of advanced sensors, countermeasures and weapons, will likely soundly defeat the F-22 Raptor but will certainly annihilate the F-35 and the Super Hornet.
This is an explosive statement but coming from ace aircraft experts, the FGFA portends a scary decade ahead for Western air defences and pilots.
Tuning the T-50
Clearly, the designers arent sitting idle. A series of developments suggests the FGFA has achieved irresistible propulsion. According to the website of Russias United Aircraft Group, which owns the Sukhoi bureau, the company has tested three T-50 prototypes in various modes, totalling around 180 sorties, including aerial refuelling hook-ups with a Russian Air Force Il-78 tanker, AESA radar scans, and large angle of attack and super manoeuvrability test flights.
Carlo Kopp of Air Power Australia and legendary aircraft analyst Bill Sweetman wonder whether the current T-50 represents the definitive configuration. Today's round nozzles and the curvature of the aft nacelles are not at first glance stealth-optimised, and the engine is not fully masked head-on by the inlet duct, they write in an article in Aviation Week.
To be sure, those are exactly the areas India and Russia will be working on in the months and years ahead. The IAF, for instance, has specified more than 40 improvements to the design following its observation of flying trials.
For instance, in the early stages of the programme, the IAF was keen on a two-seater fighter bomber, and in fact indicated a requirement for at least 166 single-seat and 48 twin-seat aircraft.
But since then it has jettisoned that demand will go in for only single-seat jets now. The reason is that a second cockpit will compromise the stealth capabilities by at least 15 percent, apart from adding to the weight and reducing fuel capacity.
Exploring exports
Unlike the dollar-guzzling F-35 which perhaps wouldnt fly without exports, the T-50 remains viable because of lower development costs and large pre-orders from Russia and India. Still exports cant hurt. According to the IAF, the broad scope of bilateral cooperation during the joint project covers the design and development of the aircraft, its production and joint marketing to other countries.
The Centre for the Analysis of Strategies and Technologies (CAST), a Moscow-based independent defence and foreign policy think-tank, says that while India will be the first FGFA export customer, Vietnam will be probably its second buyer. CAST Director Ruslan Pukhov believes every third user of the Su-27/30 family of aircraft could be a customer for the FGFA.
Russias legacy
For both Russia and India the FGFA programme will be a bold new gambit, as it will overshadow even the highly successful BrahMos missile project. For, while BrahMos is also a 50:50 India-Russia venture, it is basically Indias baby; Russia has turned down an offer to buy the missile as it has the equally capable Club.
However, the FGFA programme could be a template for further defence cooperation between India and Russia. As its economy grows, India is increasingly seeking quality armaments for its armed forces and is keen to wean itself away from imports. Russia on the other hand has the knowhow and experience to produce highly capable weapons platforms. Together, they can ensure that legacy remains intact.
FGFA
Black Widow
BANNED
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2011
- Messages
- 6,130
- Reaction score
- -17
please merge it with exiusting thread...
Indian defense -- > FGFA-PAKFa sticky thread...
Indian defense -- > FGFA-PAKFa sticky thread...
Abingdonboy
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2010
- Messages
- 29,597
- Reaction score
- 46
- Country
- Location
^^ that is one flattering article!!
But the idea of 500+ PAK-FA/FGFA flying around that is on par with the F-22 and far superior to the F-35 must make the West's trousers get warmer.
But the idea of 500+ PAK-FA/FGFA flying around that is on par with the F-22 and far superior to the F-35 must make the West's trousers get warmer.
Abingdonboy
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2010
- Messages
- 29,597
- Reaction score
- 46
- Country
- Location
The F-35 has been designed to be able to carry "drop-tanks" bcause its range on internal fuel is pretty dismal.
Gessler
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2012
- Messages
- 3,579
- Reaction score
- -10
- Country
- Location
Yes, but doesn't that compromise stealth? The F-35 isn't the F-22, it's the Raptor that's the
trend-setter. Carrying so many weapons on outer wing pylons destroys the effort put into manufacturing
weapon bays, and stealth tech, RAM and other materials.
Abingdonboy
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2010
- Messages
- 29,597
- Reaction score
- 46
- Country
- Location
Of course it comprimises stealth! No "true" stealth platform will carry external weapons, it comprimises everything the plane was built for.
kurup
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2012
- Messages
- 10,563
- Reaction score
- -2
- Country
- Location
Thats not a problem for the chinese ......
They develop everything based on chinese physics ........
Yeti
BANNED
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2010
- Messages
- 7,400
- Reaction score
- -7
- Country
- Location
An Indian negotiating team is heading for Russia to finalize details of the country’s participation in development of the Sukhoi T-50, also known by the Russian acronym PAK FA and by India as the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA). India is providing half of the expected $11 billion cost to develop the aircraft, and earlier signed a preliminary design contract worth $295 million. The Indian development contract is expected to take six months to conclude, AIN has learned.
In an exclusive interview, Indian air force chief of staff Norman Anil Kumar Browne told AIN, “The contract incorporates our specifications, which are very demanding.” Browne drew a distinction between the FGFA version and the original PAK FA, three prototypes of which are already flying. “We still do not know what [our] final version will be like until we finish. What I can say is that it will be very different from the Russian version, including weapons, avionics and sensors.”
The PAK FA development program needs to complete 5,000 sorties, Browne said. “So we have work to do. The fourth prototype will fly soon,” he predicted. Government defense contractor Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) will be participating in design and development. Following signature of the contract, HAL officials and Indian Air Force (IAF) test pilots will be based in Russia for seven years during the R&D phase.
“[The IAF] will get three prototypes for testing–the first in 2014/15, the second in 2017 and in 2019 the final one, which will be the version we order,” said Browne. Russian air force commander Gen. Victor Bondarev said recently that his service would receive production aircraft in 2015.
The IAF had “preliminary thoughts” about acquiring the Lockheed Martin F-35 in 2004/2005, but signed the MoU with Russia for the FGFA in 2007. “I am confident the F-35 will be a good machine. But now we have a concrete plan. We have crossed the time [line] and cannot commit to more than one project,” said Browne when asked whether India could still consider the F-35.
India initially planned to have 166 single-seat and 48 two-seat FGFAs, but recently it decided to take all 214 as single-seaters. AIN understands that the decision was driven by the fidelity of modern simulation, as well as the additional cost of building two-seaters.
Indian Air Force Chief Outlines Fighter Jet Plans | Aviation International News
In an exclusive interview, Indian air force chief of staff Norman Anil Kumar Browne told AIN, “The contract incorporates our specifications, which are very demanding.” Browne drew a distinction between the FGFA version and the original PAK FA, three prototypes of which are already flying. “We still do not know what [our] final version will be like until we finish. What I can say is that it will be very different from the Russian version, including weapons, avionics and sensors.”
The PAK FA development program needs to complete 5,000 sorties, Browne said. “So we have work to do. The fourth prototype will fly soon,” he predicted. Government defense contractor Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) will be participating in design and development. Following signature of the contract, HAL officials and Indian Air Force (IAF) test pilots will be based in Russia for seven years during the R&D phase.
“[The IAF] will get three prototypes for testing–the first in 2014/15, the second in 2017 and in 2019 the final one, which will be the version we order,” said Browne. Russian air force commander Gen. Victor Bondarev said recently that his service would receive production aircraft in 2015.
The IAF had “preliminary thoughts” about acquiring the Lockheed Martin F-35 in 2004/2005, but signed the MoU with Russia for the FGFA in 2007. “I am confident the F-35 will be a good machine. But now we have a concrete plan. We have crossed the time [line] and cannot commit to more than one project,” said Browne when asked whether India could still consider the F-35.
India initially planned to have 166 single-seat and 48 two-seat FGFAs, but recently it decided to take all 214 as single-seaters. AIN understands that the decision was driven by the fidelity of modern simulation, as well as the additional cost of building two-seaters.
Indian Air Force Chief Outlines Fighter Jet Plans | Aviation International News
rockstarIN
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2010
- Messages
- 6,168
- Reaction score
- -2
- Country
- Location
Are we getting first T-50 prototype by 2014.???
sancho
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2009
- Messages
- 13,011
- Reaction score
- 27
- Country
- Location
It should be FGFA prototypes, since that the version we aim for and because we want different materials, avionics and maybe even different engines than Russia wants at the beginning. Taking T50 for tests to India the won't give any useful data.
Similar threads
- Article
- Article
