Sukhoi PAK-FA / FGFA: Updates,News & Discussions

[arp2041]

India-related news updates from Russia's military aviation industry [T-50 PAK-FA FGFA]

The third prototype of the T-50 PAK-FA [T-50-3] commenced flight testing on June 21, 2012.

Around 130 cumulative test flights have been completed by the PAK-FA prototypes. The 100th test-flight milestone was reached in around a year of the maiden flight of the first prototype - indicates a active testing programme.

The fourth prototype aircraft is being assembled and is expected to be ready for test flights in around the months of September-November [Autumn, as mentioned]. Unlike the earlier prototypes, which were taken from the factory to the location of flight test on-board transport aircrafts, the fourth prototype is expected to make the journey on its own - indicates confidence on part of the developers of its safety & reliability.

Two more T-50 PAK-FA prototype aircraft would join the flight test programme in 2013. A total of 14 prototypes would be involved in flight tests by 2015.

Around 60 production standard aircrafts are planned to be built between 2016-2020.

Preliminary design of the the Indian variant of the aircraft - the twin-seat Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft [FGFA]], is to be submitted this summer [Preliminary design phase of the FGFA was to end by June 2012].

Tikhomirov AESA Radar for the T-50 PAK-FA & FGFA

The third prototype has been equipped with the Tikhomirov-NIIP AESA radar being developed for the fighter - the first AESA radar to be fitted on any prototype. Having undergone ground tests, mated to the aircraft, flight test of the AESA radar is expected to commence by the end of 2012.

Tikhomirov-NIIP has been appointed the primary contractor for the development of an AESA radar for the FGFA too.

Other Radars

Tikhomirov-NIIP has proposed replacing the current radar equipping the IAF's Su-30 MKIs with an AESA variant. A positive response to this isn't yet forthcoming from India, thus far.

The BARS Phased Array radar mounted on IAF Flakers too are assembled in India.

The improved RD-33 Series-3 engine that would power the IAF's upgraded MiG-29 aircrafts [MiG-29UPG] would arrive in India in the form of knocked down kits [CKD], that would then be assembled in the country. Of the 120 engines contracted for, around 60 units have been supplied.

Radar on-board the Indian Navy's MiG-29K is identified as the Zhuk-ME FGM-129, whereas the ones to equip the Air Force's MiG-29UPG is the Zhuk-ME FGM-229.

Miscellaneous

The Russian Mi-26T2 that is bidding for the Indian Air Force's heavy-lift helicopter contract is said to have exceeded all requirements & has impressed the potential end-users,
"The potential customer is rather pleased with its assessment, and experts deem the Mi-26T2’s chances for winning in the Indian tender as high.

"We demonstrated the helicopter to the potential customer and it exceeded almost all the requirements, including operations in mountainous regions", told the General Designer of the Mil Moscow Helicopter Plant Alexey Samusenko. "Indian pilots, admitted to the flight tests, highly prized the upgraded helicopter, especially its new avionics."

The IAF presently operates around 3 older variants of these helicopters, of the 4 that were originally acquired.

The Russian Air Force [RuAF] is to induct 30 Sukhoi Su-30SM fighter aircrafts, starting 2013. The Su-30SM is a variant of the Indian Air Force's [IAF] Sukhoi Su-30MKI fighter, presently license manufactured in India.

Following the Indian Navy's acquisition, the Russian Navy too has placed orders for 24 MiG-29K/KUB [20 Ks + 4 KUBs] aircraft for its sole Aircraft Carrier, the Admiral Kuznetsov.

These examples of the Russian military deciding to induct two platforms that have seen prior service with India - the Su-30MKI & MiG-29K/KUB, perhaps, points to two points - validation of India's buying decisions [the Flankers & Fulcrums] & economies of scale leading to lower acquisition cost for the Russians [the MiG-29].

India-related news updates from Russia's military aviation industry [T-50 PAK-FA FGFA] - AA Me, IN

 

[sancho]

Preliminary design of the the Indian variant of the aircraft - the twin-seat Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft [FGFA]], is to be submitted this summer [Preliminary design phase of the FGFA was to end by June 2012].

Which would confirm my point that IAF don't get single seat versions.

Tikhomirov-NIIP has proposed replacing the current radar equipping the IAF's Su-30 MKIs with an AESA variant. A positive response to this isn't yet forthcoming from India, thus far.

Interesting, still no decision about the AESA.

The Russian Mi-26T2 that is bidding for the Indian Air Force's heavy-lift helicopter contract is said to have exceeded all requirements & has impressed the potential end-users,
"The potential customer is rather pleased with its assessment, and experts deem the Mi-26T2’s chances for winning in the Indian tender as high.

"We demonstrated the helicopter to the potential customer and it exceeded almost all the requirements, including operations in mountainous regions", told the General Designer of the Mil Moscow Helicopter Plant Alexey Samusenko. "Indian pilots, admitted to the flight tests, highly prized the upgraded helicopter, especially its new avionics."

Sounds good, but the performance advantages shouldn't be surprising, the key will be the logistics and maintenance support!

 

[arp2041]

Which would confirm my point that IAF don't get single seat versions.

well i have a strong feeling that IAF will go for 50-60 single seater PAK-FA, since it would be in tremendous pressure by induction of the Chinese stealth fighter around 2018 or so + if IAF is not able to induct LCA in large nos. by than + we should also take the worst case scenario into consideration which is mmrca nos. by 2018 does not turn up as per plans. This situation will make IAF left with no choice but to induct decent nos. of PAK-FA's. which would be ready by that time but FGFA will only be inducted in early 2020's, this will be same case as the su-30 deal of late 90's when IAF inducted it's early variant before MKI came to fruition, now IAF has demanded replacement for the earlier su-30s, same can be done with PAK-FA later.

 

[sancho]

well i have a strong feeling that IAF will go for 50-60 single seater PAK-FA, since it would be in tremendous pressure by induction of the Chinese stealth fighter around 2018 or so + if IAF is not able to induct LCA in large nos. by than + we should also take the worst case scenario into consideration which is mmrca nos. by 2018 does not turn up as per plans. This situation will make IAF left with no choice but to induct decent nos. of PAK-FA's. which would be ready by that time but FGFA will only be inducted in early 2020's, this will be same case as the su-30 deal of late 90's when IAF inducted it's early variant before MKI came to fruition, now IAF has demanded replacement for the earlier su-30s, same can be done with PAK-FA later.

That were twin seater Su 30s too and just a single squad, not to mention that it's must be seen first how fast China will have a 5th gen fighter operational and where it will be deployed, or of Pak Fa will be available by 2016 like the Russians plan. All in all, waaay too many ifs, so barely speculation.

 

[rockstarIN]

That were twin seater Su 30s too and just a single squad, not to mention that it's must be seen first how fast China will have a 5th gen fighter operational and where it will be deployed, or of Pak Fa will be available by 2016 like the Russians plan. All in all, waaay too many ifs, so barely speculation.

We should go for AMCA like how Russians are doing for their PAK-FA.

We should get the AMCA prototypes flying by 2016-17 period, even if it is not ready at all. They took time from Su-27 to Su-35, similar way we should develop AMCA instead of going for single engines PAK-FAs. PAKFA & Rafale should be the last jets we induct to IAF, next time all should be indigenous.

 

[DrSomnath999]

Here is an extract from a technical paper from Ufa State Aviation University (Уфа: УГАТ&#1059 regarding the development of the next generation engine (by referring to the "fifth generation engine"- it is, by all accounts, referring to the PAK-FA stage 2 engine in all but name), dated 2008:

QUOTE:

Разработка двигателя нового поколения требует создания и использования новых материалов с высокой удельной прочностью —композиционных материалов (К&#1052 на металлической матрице. ВФГУП НПП «Мотор» отрабатывались вопросы разработки лопаток компрессора из КМ (B-Mg), проводились обширные экспериментальные исследования по оценке механических характеристик КМ на образцах и моделях лопаток при разных видах нагружения и обеспечения эксплуатационных свойств материала…

...В двигателестроении России приоритетными являются такие задачи, как модернизация двигателей 4++ и создание научно-технического задела для разработки двигателей пятого поколения.

Development of the next-generation engine requires the creation and use of new materials with high specific strength, composite materials (cm) on a metal matrix. VFGUP NPP Motor undertook the development of compressor blades from composite materials (Mg-B), carried out extensive experimental study on evaluation of the mechanical characteristics of the samples and models of fan blades with different types of loading and operating characteristics of the material…

...the Russian aircraft engine industry has prioritised tasks such as upgrading engines of 4++ (generation) and the establishment of scientific and technological solutions to develop fifth-generation engines.
http://www.ugatu.ac.ru/publish/vu/stat/UGATU-2008-2(29)/07.pdf

So what they're talking about is developing a fan-blade composed of what they call 'Meta-Composites', in this case a magnesium matrix reinforced with boron-carbon fibre composite. This would replace the Titanium superalloy 1st stage of the compressor.



Here is a Chinese technical paper on magnesium (Mg) alloys which it describes as possessing "special radar-absorption characteristics, low density and high rigidity…".
Quote:

В ОАО «НПП «Мотор» создана рабочая лопатка первой ступени ком-
прессора ГТД на основе магниевой матрицы, армированной борными и углеродными волокнами.

OAO "NPP" Motor " have established a working fan-blade of the [engine] compressor's first stage based on a magnesium matrix, reinforced boron (Mg-B) and carbon fibre composite.
http://www.ugatu.ac.ru/science/dissov/d5/27.04.12/nusratullin_avtoreferat.pdf

So it appears to be a very high-tech and elegant solution, also involved in composite fan blade development are FGUP TsIAM and FGUP VIAM (ФГУП ЦИАМ & ФГУП ВИА&#1052, these are big on nanotech, so I guess the final composition will be very interesting indeed!

COURTESY :JO ASAKURA
THANK U FOR THE INFO MATE

 

[Abingdonboy]

Any idea whether the TVC will kick after a certain AoA is surpassed (like on F-22) or whether the TVC will be initiated by a the pilot whenever they like? And will there be covers to direct the thrust/hide the IR signature (like F-22) or be unexposed like on previous gen fighters?

 

[redpearl_75]

As far as I know or we all know that the FGFA will be caple of deploying TVC capability whenever the pilot would intend to use it and even during normal flight.. Moreover AL-41F1A possibly being used by FGFA offers a 3 dimentional TVC giving both horizental as well as virtical lift whereas Raptor with Pratt & Whitney F119 gives only the virtical TVC which is 2D. IAF uses MKIs and is employed with the TVC and is used in normal flights as well and its not that, if the aircraft reaches its AoA limit then it kicks in.. Im not sure but Russian jets have that capacity that makes maneuverability its key factor...

 

[DrSomnath999]

Any idea whether the TVC will kick after a certain AoA is surpassed (like on F-22) or whether the TVC will be initiated by a the pilot whenever they like? And will there be covers to direct the thrust/hide the IR signature (like F-22) or be unexposed like on previous gen fighters?

see no body can answer those questions right now about those stealth nozzles until & unless we see product 30 installed in
PAK-FA .We have to wait
that's it

Regarding TVC the problem if we go for stealth nozzles then we have to content with 2 axis TVC but if we go for round nozzles then we can have 2.5 /3 axis TVC

 

[arp2041]

Fifth generation fighters provide air superiority

According to American Air force officials "The F-22 is better than any other aircraft in the world at air-to-ground except for the F-35, and the F-35 is better than any other aircraft in the world at air-to-air except for the F-22".

The American Air Force with the integration of fifth generation aircraft is gaining new tactical advantages that transcend beyond just stealth into areas such as enhanced maneuverability, multi-role capabilities and fused sensor and avionics systems that can communicate with other weapons systems.

That's why it is imperative that U.S. forces continue to develop and begin to use fifth-generation fighters as they transition to the new Pacific-based strategy, according to Lt. Gen. Herbert J. "Hawk" Carlisle, Deputy Chief of Staff for Operations, Plans and Requirements, Headquarters U.S. Air Force.

"The threat environment is continuing to grow, so as we look at how we're going to maintain those competencies in the future, that's where fifth generation fighters come in," he said in mid-March. "It's not just about stealth."

The general said the Air Force can continue to maintain the most elite fourth generation aircraft in the world, but that won't prepare the U.S. to handle threats in the future.

"Our Air Force has got to keep evolving to meet these new challenges as we move forward into the future," said Carlisle.

To illustrate this evolution and fifth generation fighter jet technology, the general shared a scenario in which an F-22 data-links coordinates to a Navy submarine-launched tomahawk missile onto a target.

"Now you have two stealth platforms, a submarine and an F-22, communicating with naval ordnance," he said.

That level of interoperability is a large part of what makes the fifth generation Aircraft so vital to the Air Force and U.S. military in general, he added. Aircraft must not only be stealth, but also be highly maneuverable, be able to conduct multiple roles, and these aircraft must also be able to handle sensor and avionics information in a network integrated way not only for the pilot, but for the entire joint force.

"We have to have a fused system capability and have them networked and integrated across the force," he said. "To me, that's as important on a fifth-generation fighter as anything."

To tell the truth Russia has not found itself far behind the States/ more than two years ago- on December, 2010, a prototype Sukhoi T-50 fifth-generation fighter took off on its maiden flight in Komsomolsk-on-Amur, Russia's Far East.

This is the first warplane completely designed and built in Russia since the break-up of the Soviet Union. Only the United States currently operates Lockheed Martin/Boeing F-22 Raptor Stealth air-superiority fighters.

In 1981, the Mikoyan Design Bureau started developing the I-90 aircraft, better known as the Multifunctional Fighter (MFI). The project was launched soon after the MiG-29 Fulcrum, MiG-31 Foxhound and Su-27 Flanker fourth-generation fighters performed their first flights.

The I-90 which was to have been mass-produced in the 1990s overtook the U.S. Advanced Tactical Fighter (ATF) program which later gave rise to the F-22 Raptor.

Curtailed defense spending in the late 1980s and the subsequent break-up of the Soviet Union stopped the MFI program in its tracks. Flight tests planned for 1991 -1992 did not take place. Consequently, the MFI first took to the skies in 2000.

A prototype Sukhoi S-37/Su-47 Berkut fifth-generation fighter had been developed by then.

In 1998, the Russian Air Force issued a new request for proposal (RFP) for a fifth-generation fighter. As a concept it had remained unchanged since the MFI program got underway.

The new fighter's basic specifications included: greater agility, sustained supersonic-flight capability in non-afterburning mode, low radar visibility, low heat signature, as well as enhanced take-off and landing performance.The old designs were scrapped, and it was decided to develop an entirely new warplane fully taking into account the F-22's capabilities, merits and drawbacks.

In 2002, the Sukhoi Design Bureau won the pilot-project contest, after proposing a full-size and twin-engined fighter with a take-off weight of up to 35 metric tons under its Prospective/Promising Frontline Aviation System program (PAK FA program).

Although the new aircraft was expected to take off in 2007, the maiden flight deadline was delayed until 2008, 2009 and January 2010.

Given this new program's complexity and the scale of the scientific, engineering, organizational and financial problems that had to be tackled during the new plane's creation, this delay is quite understandable. All these problems are caused by Russia's crisis-ridden industry.

The new aircraft is designated the T-50, Product 701 or the I-21. The Indian Air Force also displayed an interest in this program soon after it was launched.

At first, New Delhi preferred the lighter and simpler Mikoyan-Gurevich MFI fighter. The Russian Aircraft Corporation MiG proposed the twin-engine and bobtailed I-2000, an upgrade of the basic MiG-29 model, and a single-engine aircraft closely resembling the Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II, a descendant of the F-35, which came out of the Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) program.

India wanted to receive this sophisticated aircraft as soon as possible therefore had no choice but to join the PAK FA program. The Indian version will feature a two-seat cockpit, a number of electronic systems and other auxiliary equipment.

These aircraft are expected to replace the Su-30MKI Flanker-H fighters currently serving with the Indian Air Force, in the 2020s and the 2030s. Moreover, it is likely they will be mass-produced in India.

The latest test flight reaffirms Russia's status as a leading aviation power. Only Russia and the United States currently have their own fifth-generation fighters, as well as aircraft industries capable of manufacturing all types of military and civilian aircraft ranging from light-weight aerobatic planes to strategic bombers.

All other countries, including France, Sweden, the EU as a whole, China and Japan, lack these capabilities and are forced to implement various cooperation plans in order to develop new-generation aircraft.

Despite their combined efforts the joint EU aircraft industry has failed to create a fifth-generation fighter in place of the Eurofighter Typhoon twin-engine multi-role aircraft. Most of the Eurofighter project participants intend to buy the U.S. F-35 fighter in future.

The future for new Swedish and French aircraft remains bleak. Both the Saab JAS 39 Gripen and the Dassault Rafale rank among the generation four-plus-plus warplanes. Neither Stockholm, nor Paris can afford to implement multi-billion-dollar fifth-generation fighter programs.

China's prospects also seem doubtful. Most analysts agree that Beijing can develop a fifth-generation warplane only if it utilizes foreign, notably Russian, experience.

Russian aircraft manufacturers must develop at least two competitive prototypes of a fifth-generation fighter jet, Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin said in mid-March.

“Two variants of the future fighter jet must be developed to encourage competition,” Rogozin said at a meeting with Russian lawmakers.

According to the Russian Defense Ministry, the future fighter must possess all technical characteristics of a fifth-generation fighter, including elements of stealth technology, supersonic cruising speed, highly-integrated avionics, electronics and fire-control systems.

There are currently three fifth-generation T-50 fighters in tests, and a total number of 14 aircraft is planned for test flights by 2015.

The T-50 is expected to enter service in 2016 and gradually replace MiG-29 Fulcrum and Su-27 Flanker fighter jets in the Russian Air Force.

Russia’s Sukhoi aircraft maker will remain among the top three exporters of fighter jets until at least 2015, the Moscow based Center for Analysis of World Arms Trade (CAWAT) said this Februaryon.

“Sukhoi will export 109 fighters in the next three years, while U.S. Lockheed Martin exports110 aircraft, and China’s Chengdu -112 aircraft,” CAWAT head Igor Korotchenko said.

The total amount of Sukhoi fighter contracts with foreign customers until 2015 is estimated at $5.45 billion.

Fifth generation fighters provide air superiority | Russia & India Report

 

[Dash]

see no body can answer those questions right now about those stealth nozzles until & unless we see product 30 installed in
PAK-FA .We have to wait
that's it

Regarding TVC the problem if we go for stealth nozzles then we have to content with 2 axis TVC but if we go for round nozzles then we can have 2.5 /3 axis TVC

That is a hexagonal nuzzle version and not a rectangular one. a hexa nuzzle like the one shown in this pic can support 3D thurst vectoring....

 

[KRAIT]

^ Is this model is confirmed one ????

 

[Dash]

check out the rectangular nozzle of Raptor. no where close to hexa nozzles...

^ Is this model is confirmed one ????

Till date its only speculation, and its not yet confirmed, however its most likely to be the last modification that will be done to PAKFA with an option that if Russians dont go for this, it might feature in FGFA.

 

[dbc]

Regarding TVC the problem if we go for stealth nozzles then we have to content with 2 axis TVC but if we go for round nozzles then we can have 2.5 /3 axis TVC

The current production F-22 nozzle was designed for multi-axis vectoring including thrust reversal. It was successfully tested but it never made it to the production F-22 because it increased the risk of pilot spatial disorientation.

 

[DrSomnath999]

That is a hexagonal nuzzle version and not a rectangular one. a hexa nuzzle like the one shown in this pic can support 3D thurst vectoring....

well i actually termed the nozzle by it's rectangular shape only ,may be hexagonal would
be the appropiate word.

Hmm can it support 3D thrust vectoring like this as shown in pic below I am not sure ????

The current production F-22 nozzle was designed for multi-axis vectoring including thrust reversal. It was successfully tested but it never made it to the production F-22 because it increased the risk of pilot spatial disorientation.

but madam i think F22 has 2 axis tvc nozzles in it's production model .