Su-30. Biggest and baddest two seater multi role.

[alee92nawaz]

JF-17 tweaked to make worse or better? I had seen a few videos in which JF-17 was beating the a$$ of almost every aircraft, then DCS made adjustments and made it worse - for some strange reasons. Is that what you talking about?

Yes exactly this

 

[Beast]

You have a problem with everything American it seems. Height of insecurity.

Sukhoi 27 design = Russian effort to bring Sukhoi at par with relatively older American F-14 and F-15 designs in the kinematics aspect. However, F-15 is superior aircraft on the whole by far. Refer back to the link in my previous post which you didn't even bother to read coz it is American.

J-16 is a Chinese amendment to Sukhoi 27 but still a largely untested aircraft. Not discussing this aircraft here.

WAIT...


Sukhoi 27 being able to [easily] outmaneuver an F-15 in low altitude situations? ABSOLUTELY...

Just some meters above the ground.

Those are actual evasive maneuvers of the jet - not largely irrelevant show stunts. Look how easily the jet turns and does not loose speed in the process.

"Low wing-loading (the ratio of aircraft weight to its wing area) is a vital factor in maneuverability and, combined with the high thrust-to-weight ratio, enables the aircraft to turn tightly without losing airspeed." - Dan Gleiter

F-15 have numerous variants A/B/C/D/E with distinct specializations. You cannot paint all with the same brush.

The insecurity is you. Using a biased article and try claim it as truth. Apple polish for American whenever there is any opportunities. I have seen too many of these kind of propangada article by American or their supporter to try misled readers. This kind of article is only for layman with low knowledge of military aspect. For true military fan,such article fools nobody.

 

[LeGenD]

The insecurity is you. Using a biased article and try claim it as truth. Apple polish for American whenever there is any opportunities. I have seen too many of these kind of propangada article by American or their supporter to try misled readers. This kind of article is only for layman with low knowledge of military aspect. For true military fan,such article fools nobody.

Biased to you but Neutral to me. Russians do much better than Americans in the propaganda front - my take. Russian jets are OVER-HYPED (high-maintenance) junks on average - I have reiterated this reality time and again.

Indians hyped Su-30 MKI beyond measure in their discussions in any platform through the years, to the point that any attempt to highlight shortcomings of Su-30 MKI to them was a FUTILE EXERCISE to no end (frustrating experience). When the time came to prove its mettle in combat situations, an old Pakistani F-16 MLU got the better of it. Now they are into Rafale POOJA.

You are Chinese version of an Indiot. Friendly advice: don't be one.

You show me proof of your claim - Sukhoi 27 easily outmaneuvering an F-15 variant in a low altitude combat situation. I am waiting.

 

[Beast]

Biased to you but Neutral to me. Russians do much better than Americans in the propaganda front - my take. Russian jets are OVER-HYPED (high-maintenance) junks on average.

Indians hyped Su-30 MKI beyond measure in their discussions in any platform through the years, to the point that any discussion about shortcomings of Su-30 MKI with them was a FUTILE EXERCISE to no end. When the time came to prove its mettle in combat situations, an old Pakistani F-16 MLU got the better of it.

You are Chinese version of an Indiot unfortunately.

You show me proof of your claim - Sukhoi 27 easily outmaneuvering an F-15 variant in a low altitude combat situation. I am waiting.

See how you get angry and start personal attack cos I hit right on your nerves of bragging.

 

[LeGenD]

See how you get angry and start personal attack cos I hit right on your nerves of bragging.

You are dragging this exchange unnecessarily. Focus on providing evidence to validate/corroborate your claims about Su-27 in this thread.

This is your original claim: "Far better than F-15 and other peers."

That's right.

 

[Beast]

You are dragging this exchange unnecessarily. Focus on providing evidence to validate/corroborate your claims about Su-27 in this thread.

This is your original claim: "Far better than F-15 and other peers."

That's right.

Why I need to prove anything when so far any of your provided evidence are nothing but biased self bragging article from American delusionist.

 

[KungFuLee]

Why I need to prove anything when so far any of your provided evidence are nothing but biased self bragging article from American delusionist.

He actually and literally just did......

On the other hand, you still haven't, all you have in 5 post is your word and calling other people insecure or I hit a nerve, those aren't prove........

 

[graphican]

listen @0:26
And listen carefully and then tell us about the Biggest, baddest two seater fighter jet of the world

Indians admit that results would've been different if Rafael was operational with IAF. What are they trying to say?

Yes exactly this

I think some basic information must be released by the manufacturer which is their criteria of adjustments. But I also do not expect exact information would be provided by any of the manufacturers to prevent expose of strengths and weaknesses of any platform.

We as Pakistani will be happier when IAF receives spanking in real life than a virtual game.

 

[LeGenD]

Why I need to prove anything when so far any of your provided evidence are nothing but biased self bragging article from American delusionist.

What is there to brag about? Mostly Russians, Indians, Iranians, and Chinese BRAG about their largely unproven STUFF here on PDF.

BASED on lessons drawn from the Vietnam War, Americans created a NEW GENERATION of combat aircraft (F-14; F-15; F-16; F-18) with both 'super-maneuverability' (powerful engine(s); incredible kinematics) and 'air-superiority' (state-of-the-art avionics; armaments) considerations in mind. Better than anything Soviets could field in the near future. F-15 received the best of both aspects by design in particular.

F-15 have a remarkable combat record in strictly Air-to-Air clashes: https://migflug.com/jetflights/the-combat-statistics-for-all-the-aircraft-currently-in-use/

F-15 kills include Mig-29, MiG-25, MiG-23, MiG-21, Su-25, Su-22, Su-7, and Mirage F1.

In view of the characteristics of F-15, post-USSR Russia designed Su-27 to achieve parity with F-15 in the 'super-maneuverability' aspect (Americans openly admit as much). However, independent observers cannot PROVE that Su-27 can easily outmaneuver F-15 in low-altitude situations (ONE OF YOUR CLAIMS in this thread). I have posted footage of F-15 variants being capable of excellent maneuvers in low-altitude flight situations and otherwise, in this very thread. Reminder: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/su-30-biggest-and-baddest-two-seater-multi-role.651180/#post-12047274

As for which of the two is the superior design? Depends upon what parameters you have in mind. If you look at a jet as a SUM OF ALL ITS PARTS then F-15 is superior by far because Americans have superior grasp of AVIATION-related matters and are able to equip their aircraft with superior avionics and technologies.

F-16 MLU outgunned much hyped Russian-origin Su-30 MKI in strictly Air-to-Air clashes over IOK on 27-02-19, forcing the former to retreat although one was shot down in the exchange. This in itself is sufficient indication that F-15 variants are very likely to outgun Su-27 and other Flankers in strictly Air-to-Air clashes.

Anything else?

 

[StormBreaker]

J-16 is Su-30 family. It is a Chinese bastardized version.

The only bastardized version i know are MKIs

 

[Piotr]

I agree Sukhoi 27 design is the most successful heavy weight fighter modern jet ever produced. Attain great agility despite its big size, long range flight even without drop tank and huge payload.

Far better than F-15 and other peers.

But best multi-role flanker series will goes to J-16. its digital glass cockpit and AESA radar are unrivaled.

There are some aspects where Su-35 (latest derivative of Su-27) has clear advantage over F-15:
-ability to supercruise
-TVC
-rear-facing radar

Also Russian and Chinese aircrafts have superior quality over US aircrafts. Boeing 737 MAX 8 is best example of typical US cheating.

 

[Beast]

What is there to brag about? Mostly Russians, Indians, Iranians, and Chinese BRAG about their largely unproven STUFF here on PDF.

BASED on lessons drawn from the Vietnam War, Americans created a NEW GENERATION of combat aircraft (F-14; F-15; F-16; F-18) with both 'super-maneuverability' (powerful engine(s); incredible kinematics) and 'air-superiority' (state-of-the-art avionics; armaments) considerations in mind. Better than anything Soviets could field in the near future. F-15 received the best of both aspects by design in particular.

F-15 have a remarkable combat record in strictly Air-to-Air clashes: https://migflug.com/jetflights/the-combat-statistics-for-all-the-aircraft-currently-in-use/

F-15 kills include Mig-29, MiG-25, MiG-23, MiG-21, Su-25, Su-22, Su-7, and Mirage F1.

In view of the characteristics of F-15, post-USSR Russia designed Su-27 to achieve parity with F-15 in the 'super-maneuverability' aspect (Americans openly admit as much). However, independent observers cannot PROVE that Su-27 can easily outmaneuver F-15 in low-altitude situations (ONE OF YOUR CLAIMS in this thread). I have posted footage of F-15 variants being capable of excellent maneuvers in low-altitude flight situations and otherwise, in this very thread. Reminder: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/su-30-biggest-and-baddest-two-seater-multi-role.651180/#post-12047274

As for which of the two is the superior design? Depends upon what parameters you have in mind. If you look at a jet as a SUM OF ALL ITS PARTS then F-15 is superior by far because Americans have superior grasp of AVIATION-related matters and are able to equip their aircraft with superior avionics and technologies.

F-16 MLU outgunned much hyped Russian-origin Su-30 MKI in strictly Air-to-Air clashes over IOK on 27-02-19, forcing the former to retreat although one was shot down in the exchange. This in itself is sufficient indication that F-15 variants are very likely to outgun Su-27 and other Flankers in strictly Air-to-Air clashes.

Anything else?

Lol.. all your quote and article are nothing but biased twisted statistic to boast American made ego. There is absolutely no doubt US is master of manipulating data and propangada.

https://migflug.com/jetflights/mcdonnell-douglas-f-15-vs-sukhoi-su-27/

Let me quote one reply from one reader of that link to sum up everything.


Andrea on 22. January 2013 at 23:14
You cannot make a comparison of victories and losses in this case. The USA has been fighting 3rd world countries, against poor export version fighters and untrained crew. Also there’s not enough data about Su-27. Without considering the economics, the best way to know the best fighter, is to make a 10 F-15 vs 10 Su-27, americans vs russians, but both nations at their highest potential (not like Russia in 90s…).

 

[gambit]

Let me quote one reply from one reader of that link to sum up everything.

Andrea on 22. January 2013 at 23:14
You cannot make a comparison of victories and losses in this case. The USA has been fighting 3rd world countries, against poor export version fighters and untrained crew. Also there’s not enough data about Su-27. Without considering the economics, the best way to know the best fighter, is to make a 10 F-15 vs 10 Su-27, americans vs russians, but both nations at their highest potential (not like Russia in 90s…).

As usual, you do not know what you are talking about.

Back in Korean War, Chinese pilots flew North Korean jets. So why not Russian or Chinese pilots fly for these 3rd world air forces?

These ideal scenarios are not likely to occur. They exists only in the minds of ignorant fanboys like you and that person that you quoted. In air combat, it is desirable to have 2 v 1. That is, lead and wingman against a single target. So what would 10 F-15s against 10 Su-27s prove? That whoever planned that scenario is an idiot. But then, idiotic arguments have always been your stock in trade.

So absent the presence of Russian and Chinese pilots against American pilots who fought against 3rd world air forces, do you really believe yours and Andrea's arguments are in the minds of observers? No. They will see Russian and Chinese products failing against American products. They will see Russian and Chinese training failing against American training. Bully for US.

Also Russian and Chinese aircrafts have superior quality over US aircrafts. Boeing 737 MAX 8 is best example of typical US cheating.

Yeah...We see Russian and Chinese airliners all over the world.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

Yeah...We see Russian and Chinese airliners all over the world.

Boeing sale numbers are nothing compared to God. God is infinite. You know nothing about infinite.

 

[gambit]

Boeing sale numbers are nothing compared to God. God is infinite. You know nothing about infinite.

God is my copilot.