Study: Turkey remains a committed Muslim society despite 94 years of secularism

[-SINAN-]

unlike many Kemalists

Hope Kemalists on the form of stone, would fall on your head....

These are values from our Ottoman and Seljuk heritage. And they will survive the test of time

Hohohoh, what's up pinky...Will you now login from your backward brother's account ?

 

[pts_m_h_2016]

Turkey is easily the most religious/conservative high-income ($20k+), industrialized developed country in the OECD. In the world, Turkey is only surpassed by other Muslim nations like Malaysia or GCC Arab countries etc in terms of being more religious countries in high-income bracket. But these Muslim countries are Islamic by their constitution...so the comparison is not entirely correct and hence I didn't make it.

I see you need a good dose of fantasy to keep you ecstatic, no problems with it.

When reality is bitter, fantasy can help you. Maybe.

Just for those members and lurkers who are not into fantasy, let's get clear some facts.

Turkey by no means is a developed country.

It has nothing of worth to show or share to the world that is world leading and high technology or scientifically advanced at the top echelons of world's research capabilities.

Nothing to show for all of Erdogan's shenanigans of military indigenous capabilities.

They bragged and boasted like Indians, and ended up going to some European country or the other for help. For their tank engine, for their imaginary fighter programme, for their nuclear power plant (like Iran), or like China for their aircraft carrier (from Ukraine, purchased as casino, LOL) and Turquie does the same from Spain for its landing helicopter dock as did Russia for two Mistral BPC from France.

Russia's "indigenous" SuperJet-100 (what a name!) contains 80% French and Western components.

I believe educated people don't necessarily become less religious. Unlike you I think educated people can even become more religious. They learn more sciences and they see how exact this world is created. They see how amazing substance, anti substance, energy etc are created. How great substance and energy work together. They learn more & more and they become more amazed.
How great Human body, human brain, animals, galaxy, discovered and none discovered hidden power like gravity, dispersion force, subatomic etc work. They can't be designed out of nothing. Any sane understand inexistence can't design this great system. There should be a superme existence that has created this systems. So education didn't necessarily decrease faith. In post-Islamic era Iranians scientists who discovered many unknown forces in the world, knew medical, astronomy etc not only didn't become less religious but their belief developed. Most of them had memorized whole Quran and were practical.

Tell this to the copycat Chinese whose copycat Commie regime has imposed anti religious anti Muslim veil and beard ban.

I burst out in laughter each time Pakistani members express bonhomie and untiring love and brotherhood for these despicable commies. In fact, the Chi-commies are cowards of the highest order. The moment they see a bigger stick, they bow their heads down like Deng Xiaoping and now Xi Jinping.

French police did the necessary thing against their national, they dare not say a thing except moaning and crying. We took Shanghai and French concession, again more crying and whining. Vietnam taken from under their nose. More crying from them, again.

But...

when it comes to powerless Muslims in Xinjiang and weak countries like Malaysia, those poor copycats don't spare a chance to interfere and impose their ideology.

The time is now before you Muslims experience what Malaysia experienced. Singapore was carved out of Malaysia as the Israel of the East because the Malays were easy going friendly and unsuspecting. And now the Chinese ambassador threatens intervention in Malaysia's internal matters.

http://www.malaysiakini.com/letters/314807

Although some Umno ministers condemned the Chinese government for not allowing Muslims to practice their fasting rituals during the month of Ramadan in certain areas in China, the fact is Malaysian voice does not matter. China is such a powerhouse that they do what they feel like doing.

If Umno has a disagreement with the Chinese government’s action in China, why not urge the Malaysian ambassador in China to pay a visit to Muslims in those areas and make public statements. Would our Malaysian ambassador in China dare to even attempt doing such a thing?

But God Forbid, any Muslim speak out against Chinese atrocities in Xinjiang and other areas conquered by invader foreign Hans who were never natives of that region.

I laugh at the double standards and hypocrisy of third worlders here.

 

[AUz]

This is why it pains me to see Turkey slide in to a conservative ultra religious society under Erdogan.

Lol, Erdogan has nothing to do with it.

You seem to not know the basic fact taught at political science classes...

"Politics" downflows from culture, NOT the other way around.

Erdogan might have exploited Islam's high position in Turkish society's eyes---but there's no way he somehow made Turkey more religious.

Also, I don't think Turkey is some sort of ultra conservative nutjob country. Turkey is a very 'relaxed' country with people choosing to follow their religion in many aspects of their lives.

Basically, secular elites tried to 'force out' Islam out of Turkish peoples. In the end, Islam swept away the roadblocks and shaped Turkey's culture as it was always supposed to do. Dumb laws like 'no hijab in university' or proposal for "Azaan in Turkish instead of Arabic" etc were rendered obsolete--and Turks went on to live the normal life---where some choose bars and alcohol, while others choose Turkish tea...and everybody lives their life respectfully.

Although there are few funny instances. I remember last year the "gay parade" fell in the middle of Ramadan. The authorities told the organizers that parade should be held a bit later because it'll be offensive to hold in during the month of Ramadan. But no, dumb wanna be gay "activists" did not respect the social contract between citizens of Turkey---and decided to do the parade regardless without giving any heed to the sensibilities of their fellow citizens.

Oh boy, their a$$es were handed to them by the authorities and common people The dumb parade was put into ground even before it started and organizers taken away by militarized cops.

 

[The SC]

Islam is outdated, just like any other religion out there.

Islam can never be outdated, because it has universal values, it is democratic and is based on moderation, extremism is not Islam it is simply extremism borrowing Islam's religion power for some political end..

It is the most resilient religion or way of life that exists..one can not compare it with other outdated religions, the proof is clear to see, while these religions have lost most of their followers to atheism or agnosticism, Islam followers are increasing in numbers..And this is the main cause for creating these terrorist groups by the people who fear this Islamic peaceful and natural expansion, be it in Turkey or elsewhere in the Muslim world..
One does not have to mix religion with everything in his life, Islam is "Din wa Donya", it is worldly (Donya; secularism) here and now, and (Din; religion, way of life, ethics, values etc...) for the hereafter, one has to find this equilibrium to fully benefit from it, the same goes for nations..

 

[xenon54 out]

Basically, secular elites tried to 'force out' Islam out of Turkish peoples.

It was Atatürk himself who established Diyanet which is financing every single Mosque, Imam, Cleric and other infrastructure in the country.

 

[Luffy 500]

Islam is the only true religion and way of life ordained by Allah (swt) and kufr beliefs like secularism can never overcome it naturally. Human conscience is attracted to Islam. But forced secularization did destroy turkish society though. Turkey most likely has the highest % of athiest, liberals and islamophobes in the Muslim world.

Islam and Secularism are not opposed things. Secularism is Freedom of Belief, which ordered by Allah in Quran. So if Turkey as a Secular Nation holds Islam in their hearts, it shouldnt be suprising thing.

I suggest you please go learn the very basic definition of Islam and what it means to be a Muslim. One hint - Islam has nothing to do with desires and what you think and want religion to be. Islam is NOT "west's trauma with the church".

I'm a liberal guy. I support LGBT rights and unlike many Kemalists I also support the freedom of every Muslim women to wear whatever she wants to wear. It's not my business to decide who's a good Muslim. Being a secular Muslim is no contradiction in itself to me.

A secular but liberal state and society system is the best option to realize Islamic values like justice, freedom and equality between men and woman.

Terms "liberal Muslim" & "secular Muslim" are oxymoron. But going by your previous post I believe it would be a waste of both of our time to argue on this point. You have already made up your mind and have some preconceived notion about basic fundamentals of life. Simply put your world view is totally different from a Muslim's world view. It would never meet. May Allah (swt) guide you brother.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

The Turkish folks are just breaking the seal put over their souls, being glued form 1700 to 1950, bit by bit...

I see you need a good dose of fantasy to keep you ecstatic, no problems with it.

When reality is bitter, fantasy can help you. Maybe.

Just for those members and lurkers who are not into fantasy, let's get clear some facts.

Turkey by no means is a developed country.

It has nothing of worth to show or share to the world that is world leading and high technology or scientifically advanced at the top echelons of world's research capabilities.

Nothing to show for all of Erdogan's shenanigans of military indigenous capabilities.

They bragged and boasted like Indians, and ended up going to some European country or the other for help. For their tank engine, for their imaginary fighter programme, for their nuclear power plant (like Iran), or like China for their aircraft carrier (from Ukraine, purchased as casino, LOL) and Turquie does the same from Spain for its landing helicopter dock as did Russia for two Mistral BPC from France.

Russia's "indigenous" SuperJet-100 (what a name!) contains 80% French and Western components.




Tell this to the copycat Chinese whose copycat Commie regime has imposed anti religious anti Muslim veil and beard ban.

I burst out in laughter each time Pakistani members express bonhomie and untiring love and brotherhood for these despicable commies. In fact, the Chi-commies are cowards of the highest order. The moment they see a bigger stick, they bow their heads down like Deng Xiaoping and now Xi Jinping.

French police did the necessary thing against their national, they dare not say a thing except moaning and crying. We took Shanghai and French concession, again more crying and whining. Vietnam taken from under their nose. More crying from them, again.

But...

when it comes to powerless Muslims in Xinjiang and weak countries like Malaysia, those poor copycats don't spare a chance to interfere and impose their ideology.

The time is now before you Muslims experience what Malaysia experienced. Singapore was carved out of Malaysia as the Israel of the East because the Malays were easy going friendly and unsuspecting. And now the Chinese ambassador threatens intervention in Malaysia's internal matters.

http://www.malaysiakini.com/letters/314807




But God Forbid, any Muslim speak out against Chinese atrocities in Xinjiang and other areas conquered by invader foreign Hans who were never natives of that region.

I laugh at the double standards and hypocrisy of third worlders here.

Don't forget Somme, Dresden, Leningrad/Stalingrad etc. When the West reaches pinnacles they usually try to destroy one another. Nothing else can come even light-years within it!!!!

 

[xenon54 out]

Atatürk is the best thing that happened to Turkish people, the events of today show what kind of a genious he was 100 years ago, he banned religious cults exactly for the reason what has happened today with the gülen cult, even Erdogan got this simple fact but some of his admirers still didnt as it seems.

Majority of Turks are greateful for his foresight that has prevented Turkey to become a theocratic state, looking at the majority of muslim world i can not thank him enough for his legacy which is the Republic of Turkey, democratic and secular at the same time!

Love or hate Atatürk doesnt matter he proved that a muslim society can be modern, democratic and liberal, Turks embraced the secularism that he introduced, thats what matters.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

People on PDF get away by routinely slandering and disrespecting Islamic symbols and beliefs BUT "disrespecting" ataturk even by stating facts can be reported? Seriously? That's a sad state of affairs. Is ataturk any different than stalin, hitler, mosolini, pol pot? If anything he is 100 times worse considering how passionately he hated Islam. @WAJsal @Horus brothers Does PDF fall under the jurisdiction of Turkey? If talking critical of political figures is banned on PDF, how come people are allowed to state facts about hitler, stalin, bush, trump, bagdadi, modi etc etc.

And takling abt ignorance, you should be the last person on earth to talk about ignorance. You are hopelessly ignorant about Islam and philosophies like secularism. And you are uttering non-sense about my religion based on your ignorance. Rather than showing your ignorance on PDF if you Spend time gaining very basic islamic knowledge - it would do you more good.

Btw Ataturk openly & passionately hated Islam. DO you think he would have considered the label "enemy of islam" an insult? He would have been proud of that label just like today's islamophobes. Why hide behind Islam when it comes to defending ataturk? Do you feel ashamed of what your prophet Ataturk stood for and did?

Idolization of Kemal Pasha started in 1950s. And, it did the greatest harm to his legacy and his supporters. As for his understanding of Din, he thought that Din is the root cause of backwardness and the poor economic condition of the Turkish folks. As an irony of fate the moderately Dindar folks are the catalysts for the current economic surge (GDP/year today = 3x of GDP in 2002)!!!!

 

[The Eagle]

Any type of insult is not allowed, hence, members are advised to refrain from as such. Discuss the matter with civility and in manners and avoid violations of Rules.

Thanks.

 

[The Sandman]

Atatürk is the best thing that happened to Turkish people, the events of today show what kind of a genious he was 100 years ago, he banned religious cults exactly for the reason what has happened today with the gülen cult, even Erdogan got this simple fact but some of his admirers still didnt as it seems.

Majority of Turks are greateful for his foresight that has prevented Turkey to become a theocratic state, looking at the majority of muslim world i can not thank him enough for his legacy which is the Republic of Turkey, democratic and secular at the same time!

Love or hate Atatürk doesnt matter he proved that a muslim society can be modern, democratic and liberal, Turks embraced the secularism that he introduced, thats what matters.

Only if Mr Jinnah had lived a bit longer we would've been a secular, liberal and tolerant society like yours you guys got really lucky.
@Azlan Haider @Hell hound @Zibago @LA se Karachi

 

[Attila the Hun]

These are values from our Ottoman and Seljuk heritage. And they will survive the test of time

I thought Seljuks were mostly non-Muslim?? Especially the warriors.

 

[lastofthepatriots]

Can't speak for Turks living in Turkey but I've met religious ones in the US. All with different views. One was very religious and hated Ataturk. Another guy I'm friends with doesn't drink nor does his family, but they own a liquor store.

 

[Attila the Hun]

Can't speak for Turks living in Turkey but I've met religious ones in the US. All with different views. One was very religious and hated Ataturk. Another guy I'm friends with doesn't drink nor does his family, but they own a liquor store.

The Turks on PDF maybe. but outside of here, Turks all love Ataturk.
And we all Know Pakistanis are religious , don't we

 

[lastofthepatriots]

The Turks on PDF maybe. but outside of here, Turks all love Ataturk.
And we all Know Pakistanis are religious , don't we

No seriously this guy was older religious guy. He really disliked Ataturk.