Strength of alliance between India-Isreal

[Vinod2070]

Neither America nor China are anti-Muslim. There are times when the US has acted against Muslim countries, mostly at the behest of the Israeli lobby, but America has also been very helpful to Muslim countries throughout the world. Similarly, China has helped a lot of Muslim countries and continues to do so.

OK, let me catch you the next time when you claim that USA is anti-Islam. You will do that soon enough.

BTW, wasn't the 9/11 conspiracy anti-Islam?

 

[Developereo]

You also want to "force" them out. For you their last 100 years don't matter? What makes the Arab occupation of any land so special?

60 odd years.
The Arabs didn't evict anybody to "occupy" the land. It was the Romans who evicted the Israelites 2000 ago. Maybe they should go and settle a part of Italy in revenge

So these drones were your "high altitude aircraft"? It has been replied already. Won't add to your misery.

A drone is an aircraft and these drones flew at high altitude, hence "high altitude aircraft". What part are you having trouble understanding?

Bringing in Indian Muslims and Buddhism was on topic but when you are confronted with facts, it becomes off topic.

Buddhism was brought in only in response to your post about Indian history.

You don't decide what is off topic or not. When a topic is discussed, it is the arguments and counter arguments that matter more than some fuzzy definition of "topic" that you want to use as a shield.

I certainly do when you keep bringing in Parsis and neocons and 9/11 and ....

You had brought in Buddhism when trying to justify what happened in Iran and the subcontinent.

No, I mentioned Buddhism when you presented a litany of historical religious oppression in the region. I pointed out that nobody's hands were clean and crimes were committed by everybody, hence it was irrelevant to delve into ancient history.

For the last time, don't declare your own victory.Only make you look stupid.

But I am not the one who keeps bringing in new and far flung distractions. Only people who can't respond to the topic at hand tend to wander off into derailment mode.

Lol. The drones could only have hurried things up. No more.

OK, we'll take your word over the air marshall who said that India was not able to obtain imagery on Pakistani locations. Not sure where you would lob your artillery if you don't know where the enemy is located.

I have every confidence that your military expertise is right on par with your expertise in geopolitics.

And you believe every word of every Indian article? I am not saying we didn't buy anything from Israel. You are over-hyping it's importance to again explain your own failures.

So the Indian air marshall is lying and downplaying his own capabilities? Okie dokie..

You are OK to lose to Jewish kaffirs but not Hindu kaffirs. Apparently.

Ooh, 'kaffirs'. Yay...
Say 'infidel' now. Come on, you can do it.
And 'ummah'...

Again mental gymnastics. I never condoned Palestinian issues. I already clarified my position which is exactly the position of India.

You excused it. The same way you excused IDF harassment of Palestinian teenagers by referring to Benazir's assassins. What in God's name is the connection, only you know...

You are again tying knots all around you. Just now you claimed it was their "discrimination on the basis of religion" that was you problem!

Yes. Discrimination on the basis of religion, i.e. against non-Jewish, i.e. against Muslim.

They help in describing what one is dealing with.

They help in avoiding what one is dealing with.

Israel's enemies are Arabs, not all Muslims.

Those Arabs happen to be Muslims as well but most Muslim countries are not Israel's enemies.

So you fail.

Yet again.

OK, logic lession number 1: The statement "All A are B" does not imply "All B are A".

I'll let you ponder that one...

 

[Vinod2070]

Absolutely. I never claimed that India is anti-Islam or that it's motivation in dealing with Israel is anti-Islam.

You have been exposed on this count already.

I will grant you this though. You have flip flopped so many times that even you don't know what you claimed or didn't claim.

What I am saying is that Israel discriminates against Muslims on the basis of their religion and, by supporting Israel, India is rewarding this behavior.

Is Israel anti-Islam or not?

Is your problem "discrimination on the basis of religion" or something else?

Does India have anything that can "reward" Israel? You claimed something else earlier?

 

[Vinod2070]

Agree with everything you wrote except the last part. I have my doubts about who is controlling whom in that equation. The Zionists have convinced the evangelical Christians that supporting Israel is their duty in preparation for Jesus' return and the 'rapture'.

And you surely have a credible source for this?

Something more credible than your 9/11 conspiracy theories perhaps!

 

[KS]

Oh, for the love of god...
Do I have to quote the entire article?

Here: IntelliBriefs: How Israel helped India win the Kargil War

New Delhi: There were those who applauded the Indian restraint in Kargil War, and pressured Pakistan to blink and pull back after three months of combat. And there were those who actually jumped into the war zone to help India hunt down the aggressors.

Israel sprung to India's aid for providing the desperately-needed imagery about Pakistani positions on the Kargil heights.

"The terrains where they came from was all stones. The intruders merged in the background and it was not very easy to locate them. Secondly the targets where they had occupied the peaks, were also on the other side of the hills," Air Marshal PS Ahluwalia told CNN-IBN.

Tel Aviv stepped in with unmanned reconnaissance aircraft or drones in the battle zone to assist India direct its war effort. This was one force multiplication Pakistan had not reckoned with.

"Unmanned UAVs make a lot of difference. They fly for much longer - up to 24 hours and are able to sense even simple movements on the ground,” he said.

The Israeli Heron and Searcher UAVs were critically useful for target information, as most of India's aerial surveillance aircraft were either too quick, or vulnerable to enemy missile fire.

An Indian Air Force Canberra snooping over the Batalik was hit by a Pakistani stinger on May 21, exposing the limitations of India's photo reconnaissance platforms.

Did the operation show India’s desperation? “In war you have to try everything and come across with whatever methods you have got,” said Air Marshal PS Ahluwalia.

The Israeli Heron and Searcher UAVs are now flown by the Indian Armed forces. And strategic ties with India's undeclared war ally are on fast track.

For the love of God where does the Article say Israel gave India the UAVs for the war ??

I'll repeat again - Israel fulfilled the deal before the war. The article just says Israeli in the context of the Origin of the UAVs

Given that most (all?) of Israel's enemies are Muslim, just who do you suppose will be the target of Israel's military preparedness?

All enemies are Arab. Israel has no problem with Indonesia or Malaysia.

I dont care about that - I am concerned with your lies and flip-flops.

You first say this is an anti-Islam alliance, then flip flop to this is a Pakistan-centric alliance and then when exposed type something for only God-knows-why

Enough with this. You are just arguing for the heck of it with a flip flop in each passing page, reducing yourself to a laughing stock.

 

[Vinod2070]

60 odd years.

You sure all those Jews came only sixty years back?

There were several waves of "hizarat" (to make it easy for you). There were at least two major ones before WW-2 itself.

The Arabs didn't evict anybody to "occupy" the land. It was the Romans who evicted the Israelites 2000 ago. Maybe they should go and settle a part of Italy in revenge

And evict Italians? You don't mind that? Why?

Do you have the same issues with Turks occupying Anatolia? They are from Central Asia as well?

Another diversion? I know. Just to expose you. Yet again.

A drone is an aircraft and these drones flew at high altitude, hence "high altitude aircraft". What part are you having trouble understanding?

A drone is just a piece of equipment. You earlier post sounded like there was no plane with India that could fly at "high altitude".

I am not saying it was not helpful. Just don't over-emphasize it at the cost of the real heroes, the Indian army.

Buddhism was brought in only in response to your post about Indian history.

And it was not off topic or apologist?

I certainly do when you keep bringing in Parsis and neocons and 9/11 and ....

Yes, one needs to check the consistency of your position. You fail big time in that.

No, I mentioned Buddhism when you presented a litany of historical religious oppression in the region. I pointed out that nobody's hands were clean and crimes were committed by everybody, hence it was irrelevant to delve into ancient history.

That's why I gave you the example of Halaku Khan and Mongols. To see the absurd position you have taken on the issue.

But I am not the one who keeps bringing in new and far flung distractions. Only people who can't respond to the topic at hand tend to wander off into derailment mode.

Each of your "argument" has been exposed in this thread.

OK, we'll take your word over the air marshall who said that India was not able to obtain imagery on Pakistani locations. Not sure where you would lob your artillery if you don't know where the enemy is located.

The enemy's arse only got kicked quicker. He would have been kicked out in any case. We would have taken the war to whatever areas necessary to force you back. You mistook our determination like you did in 1965 and 1971.

Musharraf was "surprised" that India brought in IAF in 1999 like you were surprised at the "night attack" on your "defense day".

I have every confidence that your military expertise is right on par with your expertise in geopolitics.

Seem to be doing alright so far. At least against rank amateurs.

So the Indian air marshall is lying and downplaying his own capabilities? Okie dokie..

The IAF didn't have too much of a role in Kargil. The war did expose the need for some specialized equipment though.

Ooh, 'kaffirs'. Yay...
Say 'infidel' now. Come on, you can do it.
And 'ummah'...

But the fact remains.

You excused it. The same way you excused IDF harassment of Palestinian teenagers by referring to Benazir's assassins. What in God's name is the connection, only you know...

Check your comprehension skills again.

Yes. Discrimination on the basis of religion, i.e. against non-Jewish, i.e. against Muslim.

Earlier you claimed it was for Christians as well? So it is against Arabs, not Muslims?

They help in avoiding what one is dealing with.

Helps in exposing hypocrisy and doublespeak.

OK, logic lession number 1: The statement "All A are B" does not imply "All B are A".

I'll let you ponder that one...

Exactly. Not all Muslims are Palestinians or even Arabs.

There goes your argument.

Yet again!

BTW, you seem highly impressed with your own supposed intelligence. Probably topped in your Madressa class?

Welcome to the real world. Don't be so impressed with yourself. Will help you avoid some embarrassment.

 

[Developereo]

OK, let me catch you the next time when you claim that USA is anti-Islam. You will do that soon enough.

I never claimed the US is anti-Islam. Certainly its foreign policy, in parts where it is controlled by the Israeli lobby, is anti-Muslim but that doesn't mean the country is anti-Muslim.

Is Israel anti-Islam or not?

Is your problem "discrimination on the basis of religion" or something else?

You really seem to have trouble with reading comprehension and logic, so let me spell it out for you.

Israel discriminates against people on the basis of religion.
One of those religions is Islam.
Hence, Israel is anti-Muslim.

Does India have anything that can "reward" Israel? You claimed something else earlier?

No need to keep repeating what is already covered, Feel free to read the thread to refresh your memory.

And you surely have a credible source for this?

I have already alleviated your ignorance on Turkey, Egypt, China...
Earlier you claimed you knew all about Zionism. Now you admit you don't even know this basic fact.
This is beyond pathetic.

Tell you what, you just sit there and wallow in your hatred around the ancient Islamic invasion of India.
Never you mind what happens in the rest of the world...

You sure all those Jews came only sixty years back?

There were several waves of "hizarat" (to make it easy for you). There were at least two major ones before WW-2 itself.

There was a trickle of Jewish migration until the 1917 Balfour Declaration, at which time Jews numbered 3-7% of the population in Palestine, depending on whom you believe.
It was only after 1917 that more robust Jewish migration was instituted by the British, but the vast majority of Jewish migrants came after 1948.
Of course you could have taken two seconds to learn yourself instead of making a fool of yourself...

And evict Italians? You don't mind that? Why?

I'm saying it was the Romans who evicted the Israelites. If their descendents want revenge, take it out on the guys who did the deed, not the Palestinians who had nothing to do with it.

A drone is just a piece of equipment. You earlier post sounded like there was no plane with India that could fly at "high altitude".

I am not saying it was not helpful. Just don't over-emphasize it at the cost of the real heroes, the Indian army.

I don't care what it sounded like to you. You made a fool of yourself by falsely claiming knowledge and then trying to backpeddle out of it.

And it was not off topic or apologist?

It was neither. My reference to Buddhism was in response to your insinuation that India has a history of complete religious tolerance.
Post #156 in case you want to refresh your memory.

Yes, one needs to check the consistency of your position. You fail big time in that.

The only thing failing here is your ability to stay on topic.

That's why I gave you the example of Halaku Khan and Mongols. To see the absurd position you have taken on the issue.

No, it was yet another one of your diversionary forays when you couldn't respond to the topic at hand.

Each of your "argument" has been exposed in this thread.

Just repeating something doesn't make it true. Once again, I am not the one who keeps resorting to off-topic distractions.

The enemy's arse only got kicked quicker. He would have been kicked out in any case. We would have taken the war to whatever areas necessary to force you back. You mistook our determination like you did in 1965 and 1971.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Superman would have come flying in and saved the day.
Less daydreaming, more reality.
Bottom line: India was floundering until Israel came in and saved your as$.

Seem to be doing alright so far. At least against rank amateurs.

Like I said, you are a legend in your own mind.

The IAF didn't have too much of a role in Kargil. The war did expose the need for some specialized equipment though.

Duh, you think?

Check your comprehension skills again.

Here's your post $330

That is bad. As bad as the terrorists firing rockets into civilians, blowing up trains and markets to get their 72 virgins or using an infant to try and blow up Benazir in Pakistan

Earlier you claimed it was for Christians as well? So it is against Arabs, not Muslims?

It's religious discrimination against non-Jewish religions. Get it? Religion, not ethnicity.
Let me know if you need a English refresher to explain this one to you also.

BTW, you seem highly impressed with your own supposed intelligence. Probably topped in your Madressa class?

Welcome to the real world. Don't be so impressed with yourself. Will help you avoid some embarrassment.

Let's see:
You failed history (Kargil, Zionism), geopolitics (Turkey, China), math (2011-1948 = 100?) and logic.

I really wouldn't bring up the topic of intelligence if I were you.

 

[Developereo]

Exactly. Not all Muslims are Palestinians or even Arabs.

There goes your argument.

Yet again!

and

All enemies are Arab. Israel has no problem with Indonesia or Malaysia.

Since both of you have trouble with simple logic, let me spell it out.

My original statement was "Given that most (all?) of Israel's enemies are Muslim," (All A are B)
And you logic Lilliputians turned it into "All Muslim countries are Israel's enemies". (All B are A)

The first statement does not imply the second.

 

[Developereo]

For the love of God where does the Article say Israel gave India the UAVs for the war ??

I'll repeat again - Israel fulfilled the deal before the war. The article just says Israeli in the context of the Origin of the UAVs

Sigh. Here it is. Try reading it slower next time.

Israel sprung to India's aid for providing the desperately-needed imagery about Pakistani positions on the Kargil heights.

Get it? "desperately needed"
As in "during the war".
Imagery was "desperately needed", much like common sense and reading comprehension on the part of you guys.

You first say this is an anti-Islam alliance, then flip flop to this is a Pakistan-centric alliance and then when exposed type something for only God-knows-why

What makes you think both statements cannot be true? They are not incompatible and are both true.
No flip flop. One is a subset of the other.

 

[Developereo]

The basic premise is very straightforward.

When the Nazis did their Holocaust, the principled approach was to defeat the Nazis, not "We will work with the Nazis, but also donate money to Jewish charities".

When South Africa had apartheid, the principled approach was to boycott the apartheid regime, not "We will work with the South African government, but also donate money to black charities".

When Israel ethnically cleanses Palestinians, the principled approach is to boycott the Israelis, not "We will work with the Israelis, but also donate money to Palestinian charities".

 

[Dalai Lama]

The basic premise is very straightforward.

When the Nazis did their Holocaust, the principled approach was to defeat the Nazis, not "We will work with the Nazis, but also donate money to Jewish charities".

When South Africa had apartheid, the principled approach was to boycott the apartheid regime, not "We will work with the South African government, but also donate money to black charities".

When Israel ethnically cleanses Palestinians, the principled approach is to boycott the Israelis, not "We will work with the Israelis, but also donate money to Palestinian charities".

When China kills Uyghurs, the principled approach is to boycott the Chinese, not "We will buy military equipment from them and support them in every cause while completely ignoring the Uyghurs".

But, what's the use. The others went through this already with you didn't they?

PS: No offence to the Chinese members. I was just using it as an example to showcase the blatant double standards.

 

[Vinod2070]

I never claimed the US is anti-Islam. Certainly its foreign policy, in parts where it is controlled by the Israeli lobby, is anti-Muslim but that doesn't mean the country is anti-Muslim.

And that is the lobby that conspired for 9/11?

You really seem to have trouble with reading comprehension and logic, so let me spell it out for you.

Israel discriminates against people on the basis of religion.
One of those religions is Islam.
Hence, Israel is anti-Muslim.

Your own country and almost all Islamic countries discriminate on the basis of religion. You seem to have a trouble seeing that?

Should the world boycott you all?

No need to keep repeating what is already covered, Feel free to read the thread to refresh your memory.

Good. You were exposed here already.

I have already alleviated your ignorance on Turkey, Egypt, China...
Earlier you claimed you knew all about Zionism. Now you admit you don't even know this basic fact.
This is beyond pathetic.

You arrogance combined with ignorance is amusing. An explosive mix.

Tell you what, you just sit there and wallow in your hatred around the ancient Islamic invasion of India.
Never you mind what happens in the rest of the world...

I asked for a credible link for your assertion.

The Zionists have convinced the evangelical Christians that supporting Israel is their duty in preparation for Jesus' return and the 'rapture'.

Seems you don't have one? Another lie exposed?

There was a trickle of Jewish migration until the 1917 Balfour Declaration, at which time Jews numbered 3-7% of the population in Palestine, depending on whom you believe.
It was only after 1917 that more robust Jewish migration was instituted by the British, but the vast majority of Jewish migrants came after 1948.
Of course you could have taken two seconds to learn yourself instead of making a fool of yourself...

It is you who made a fool of yourself. You said the Jews were there for only 60 years. Who fought off the 7 Arab countries in 1947 then (before 1948)?

I'm saying it was the Romans who evicted the Israelites. If their descendents want revenge, take it out on the guys who did the deed, not the Palestinians who had nothing to do with it.

But they were evicted from Palestine, no?

I don't care what it sounded like to you. You made a fool of yourself by falsely claiming knowledge and then trying to backpeddle out of it.

Karthic has already exposed you on this. No need to repeat your misery.

It was neither. My reference to Buddhism was in response to your insinuation that India has a history of complete religious tolerance.
Post #156 in case you want to refresh your memory.

Hallucination again.

The only thing failing here is your ability to stay on topic.

Ah, again the fuzzy "topic". The best weapon of the hidden Islamist?

No, it was yet another one of your diversionary forays when you couldn't respond to the topic at hand.

You wish. I preempted you as I am familiar with how you Islamists operate.

Just repeating something doesn't make it true. Once again, I am not the one who keeps resorting to off-topic distractions.

Karthic has made a good summary of your misery already. No point repeating it.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-...ance-between-india-isreal-26.html#post1538909

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Superman would have come flying in and saved the day.
Less daydreaming, more reality.
Bottom line: India was floundering until Israel came in and saved your as$.

Well, if you insist. OK, it was the Israeli kaffir who helped kick your arse. That makes you feel better?

BTW, again Karthik has alreadu exposed you is post #410.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-...ance-between-india-isreal-28.html#post1539354

Like I said, you are a legend in your own mind.

Trying to learn something here.

Duh, you think?

Well, we are not already final and perfect you know. We learn from our mistakes.

Here's your post $330

Yes. So? It was to expose your self-righteousness.

It's religious discrimination against non-Jewish religions. Get it? Religion, not ethnicity.
Let me know if you need a English refresher to explain this one to you also.

Your misery continues!

http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-...ance-between-india-isreal-26.html#post1538909

Let's see:
You failed history (Zionism), geopolitics (Turkey, China), math (2011-1948 = 100?) and logic.

Only in your dreams. You have been exposed thoroughly and made a total fool of yourself.

I really wouldn't bring up the topic of intelligence if I were you.

Don't even try again. The outside world is a lot different from your Madressa.

 

[MilSpec]

both of you need a tape measure to settle it... now calm down and dont hijack the thread

 

[Vinod2070]

and



Since both of you have trouble with simple logic, let me spell it out.

My original statement was "Given that most (all?) of Israel's enemies are Muslim," (All A are B)
And you logic Lilliputians turned it into "All Muslim countries are Israel's enemies". (All B are A)

The first statement does not imply the second.

Mr. peanut brain, you also claimed this:

Absolutely true. It doesn't mean all Muslims around the world since they have no interaction with Israel. But the Arabs were evicted from their homes in Palestine because they are Muslim (or Christian) and they are refused to return because they are Muslim (or Christian)

So, not all enemies of Israel seem to be Muslims!

Also as not all Muslims are Israel's enemies, it can't be anti-Islam.

Try again.

 

[Developereo]

When China kills Uyghurs, the principled approach is to boycott the Chinese, not "We will buy military equipment from them and support them in every cause while completely ignoring the Uyghurs".

But, what's the use. The others went through this already with you didn't they?

PS: No offence to the Chinese members. I was just using it as an example to showcase the blatant double standards.

Once again, China doesn't kill Uighurs just because they are Uighur. They kill certain Uighurs who commit crimes.

The situation is not at all analogous, as much as Indians want to make it sound that way.