Strange death of Sufism!

[Destranator]

Exactly show me in Qur'an and Hadith where it says to practice Sufism or mystical rituals which have nothing to do with Islam.

Sufis are nothing but innovators. Bid'dah is a major sin in Islam.


Show me in Qur'an or the Sunnah where it is acceptable to practise, preach, and behave like this:
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This is what you get after misunderstandings and misinterpretations.

These are heretics.

Just because some baboon with UK flags trying to misguide people on a Green Pakistani forum.

I agree some of the Sufi practices are unIslamic but I would rather live next door to them than people who want to behead others.
Bottom line is, these man made Sufi/Sunni/Shia/Salafi/Wahabi/Wasabi/Siracha/Peri Peri sects are idiotic. Muslims should study Islam along with modern science and philosophy (history, etc.) and learn to adapt their Islamic practice to modern times.

 

[Maira La]

I think Salafism is closer to original Islam. But it is less interesting than traditional Sunni Islam (including Sufism).

Salafists are just trying to throw away everything that's been added to Islam since the Prophet's (pbuh) passing away. Basically return to a simpler version of Islam.

One of the reasons Islam won converts like wildfire in it's early expansionist days (even converting from within it's biggest enemies like Mongols) is because of it's simplicity. It's easy to follow, egalitarian, devoid of complicated rituals and offers direct connection to God minus the middlemen (unlike Christianity).

Salafism is also spreading like wildfire today, among Muslims, because of it's simplicity. All it's doing is asking for a return to the original Islam and abandon bid'ah. It doesn't add anything new, just returns focus to core Islam (in principle). This idea appeals to most Muslims, existing and converts, who are more into Islamic theology than the average oblivious Muslim. So it will continue to grow in the foreseeable future, at the cost of Traditional Sunni Islam.

The funny thing, though, is that (IMO) Islam wouldn't have spread so fast and so far had it been always Salafi-like. During the early days Hanafi flavor made it more palatable and more attractive for the non-Muslims. Later Sufism gave Islam it's soft power.. charismatic Sufi leaders were able to draw large number of followers and were able to immerse them in a spiritual setting that Salafism lacked. A chain of spiritual succession meant the new converts would feel empowered and go on to follow their Sufi master's example and spread Islam farther.

Islam, and religion in general, in the modern world has no room to expand like it did in the past. Which severely limits scope for Sufi Islam's growth the historical way. So here we are, with Salafism's unstoppable march winning the souls of curious non-denominational and traditional Sunni Muslims year round, while non-Muslims no longer flock to Sufi Islam. That's why it's dying.

 

[Foinikas]

With due respect to everyones opinion and madhabs in islam, with advancement of science sufi mysticism cant answer questions that Salafis can. If you look at religious debates between us and christian missionaries, athists or jews, you will see what kind of questions we face and it will be very difficult to answer with mysticism in this age of science.
I follow debates of Adnan Rashid, ustad Seikh Uthman on youtube, a great watch, both originated from pakistan but great debaters and scholars on comparative religion.

You will find salafie movement are more evidence based and try to follow the roots of islams as it tries to follow what sahabies did or noted that later saints or imams so appealing to masses. So with information availability to more people like me are moving towards the core.

Allah only gave us one religion and madhabs are openions of great imams and hope it all brings us to jannah.

At the time of science,atheists and agnostics prefer religions like Hinduism and Buddhism or some aspects of those. They find Abrahamic religions "too strict". Imagine what they would think about Salafism and all those ultra-conservative Muslims.

The Bektashi Order flourished in Albania and other parts of the Balkans,until communism appeared.

 

[MultaniGuy]

At the time of science,atheists and agnostics prefer religions like Hinduism and Buddhism or some aspects of those. They find Abrahamic religions "too strict". Imagine what they would think about Salafism and all those ultra-conservative Muslims.

The Bektashi Order flourished in Albania and other parts of the Balkans,until communism appeared.

And who gives a damn what agnostics think.

Who are they to tell us Muslims what to believe.

Okay Salafism/Ahle-e-Hadith/Deobandis say follow the Prophet Muhammad and the Sahabas.

They say reject innovations or Bid'dah and any practices not related to Islam.

Let me ask you a question, because you are behaving like a smart alec here.

If Salafism is not the correct interpretation of Sunni Islam, then what is?

Regards.

 

[Foinikas]

I think it describe it very well.
They are puritans only compared with some of the recent muslim practices that are syncretic or semi syncretic. But not compared to how Prophets Companions practised.

It has to do with time and space, which has evolved since The Prophets time (Peace and blessings be upon him) and the first few hundred year after he died. As islam politically grew out of Arabia, it evolved into a multi-ethnic and multicultural civilization. Attaining evolved interpretations, practices and sometimes costumes from the new lands it drew into its fold.

Islam isnt inherently against local practices, its only against local practices that are contratdictory to main tenets of islam, especially the Oneness of God. That is exactly what Salafism is: trying to remove elements within Islam that THEY see as NOT in accordance with main tenets lf Islam, like forexample Saint worshipping.

That being said, I believe one of the challenges with Wahabism/Salafism is the tendency to overlook how pragmatic and progressive The Prophet and his companions were. In their own time, own society, they were more like radical revolutionaries. Trying to move their trobalistic society forward, make more just and fair for as many people as possible.

But do you know what Orthodoxy means?

The Wahabbis are like the American Protestants who abolished traditions and sacraments and instead focused only on the Bible and whatever else their Church founder told them.

And who gives a damn what agnostics think.

Who are they to tell us Muslims what to believe.

Okay Salafism/Ahle-e-Hadith/Deobandis say follow the Prophet Muhammad and the Sahabas.

They say reject innovations or Bid'dah and any practices not related to Islam.

Let me ask you a question, because you are behaving like a smart alec here.

If Salafism is not the correct interpretation of Sunni Islam, then what is?

Regards.

I'm saying it because he said Salafism would convert people to Islam etc.

 

[Maira La]

At the time of science,atheists and agnostics prefer religions like Hinduism and Buddhism or some aspects of those.

There is nothing scientific about Hinduism or Buddhism.

Hinduism is full of crazy mythology, strange Gods with God wives and God Children, fighting all the time with one another or other God enemies, full of gory killings, sas-bahu serial type affairs and incest.

Buddhism is anti-life. It doesn't encourage you to learn and build things, it teaches you to stop loving life, stop having children, and meditate till death so you can look forward to merging into nothing.

Westerners like exotic things. For them these are exotic religions. It's like having a pet. You have some fun with it until your interest wanes.

 

[_Nabil_]

At the time of science,atheists and agnostics prefer religions like Hinduism and Buddhism or some aspects of those. They find Abrahamic religions "too strict". Imagine what they would think about Salafism and all those ultra-conservative Muslims.

The Bektashi Order flourished in Albania and other parts of the Balkans,until communism appeared.

Most of the converted to Islam really likes it's strict approach of morale.

What's breaking apart occident societies nowadays? Drugs, Alcohol, Sex, Interest, gambling,.. ... They're all Forbidden in Islam

+ Believing in ONE almighty God

What humans need more to do the right things and live peacefully ?

 

[Foinikas]

What humans need more to do the right things and live peacefully ?

Not Salafist Sheikhs shouting about "Pakistan kuffr State",calling for the pyramids to be destroyed and Wahabbis demolishing your prophet's house.

 

[StormBreaker]

I agree some of the Sufi practices are unIslamic but I would rather live next door to them than people who want to behead others.
Bottom line is, these man made Sufi/Sunni/Shia/Salafi/Wahabi/Wasabi/Siracha/Peri Peri sects are idiotic. Muslims should study Islam along with modern science and philosophy (history, etc.) and learn to adapt their Islamic practice to modern times.

Is Peri Bite a sect as well ? I disassociate myself from any sect. My sect is Biryani

 

[Foinikas]

Hinduism is full of crazy mythology, strange Gods with God wives and God Children, fighting all the time with one another or other God enemies, full of gory killings, sas-bahu serial type affairs and incest.

I know,but there are a lot of Indians claiming that Hinduism is the most "scientific religion" etc. Check my thread called "Planet India".

 

[_Nabil_]

Not Salafist Sheikhs shouting about "Pakistan kuffr State",calling for the pyramids to be destroyed and Wahabbis demolishing your prophet's house.

Early prophet companions didn't destroyed any historical site, why should I care about X preacher?

I know,but there are a lot of Indians claiming that Hinduism is the most "scientific religion" etc. Check my thread called "Planet India".

Scientific religion ???

 

[Foinikas]

Early prophet companions didn't destroyed any historical site, why should I care about X preacher?

Well because Wahabbis do that

 

[StormBreaker]

I know,but there are a lot of Indians claiming that Hinduism is the most "scientific religion" etc. Check my thread called "Planet India".

I laugh when I see hindus claiming themselves to be scientific.

First of all, Hinduism was never a religion, It was formed later on.

The concept of consciousness and all the mumbo jumbo that was passed on in the Indian subcontinent is actually quite amusing but hinduism taking credit for all that ? Lol

 

[_Nabil_]

Well because Wahabbis do that

So what?

 

[Foinikas]

Early prophet companions didn't destroyed any historical site, why should I care about X preacher?


Scientific religion ???

Yeah,check my thread. They claim a lot of things