Stop maligning the military

[53fd]

marra no one asked for your families Army background. I can say the same stuff and say that my uncle today at this moment is in Swat, located in Kabal Tehsil in Shahderai serving with the Army. So what dude? Its his job to take orders. And no lol, I dont have to be carefull about speaking with you, I will interview my uncle who's a retired brigadier and give you his perspective on this war. Not every soldier in Pakistan likes the way this war is planned out either. I can criticize or back or Love the Army whenever I want. Please, save the rest to yourself Thank You..

You are entitled to your opinion, & I am to mine. I respect your opinion. I won't try to change your opinion. All I am saying is, don't criticize the Pakistani Army or everything Pakistan just because it is fashionable to do so, if you really love this country, that's all. If you don't, the rest is up to you.

The fact of the matter is, Pakistan has offered Afghanistan numerous times to permanently seal the border. Afghanistan refused to do so, because of course it hurts Afghanistan. Afghanistan does not respect the territorial integrity of Pakistan, Karzai calls the Durand Line 'Invalid'. There are 1000 checkposts at the Pakistan side of the border, there are less than a 100 on the Afghan side. There are about Militants and extremists infiltrating into Pakistan via the Afghan side. They also get a lot of sympathy from many parts of Pakistan. There are also many billboards in Bannu and other cities of KPK and FATA for "Pakhtunistan". If you & your uncle are Pakhtun, then of course you'll feel a little aggrieved by the Pakistan Army, especially because you are probably swayed by your kinship towards your Afghan Pashtuns, but please look at things from the notion of the Pakistani nation's benefit. The Pakistani Army hasn't done ANYTHING that a noble army protecting its nation hasn't done.

 

[53fd]

And as I said, I have family members of ALL ranks in the Army, not just the ones that take orders from others. And I repeat, you are entitled to your opinion, I am to mine, and I respect your opinion.

 

[SparklingCrescent]

You are entitled to your opinion, & I am to mine. I respect your opinion. I won't try to change your opinion. All I am saying is, don't criticize the Pakistani Army or everything Pakistan just because it is fashionable to do so, if you really love this country, that's all. If you don't, the rest is up to you.

The fact of the matter is, Pakistan has offered Afghanistan numerous times to permanently seal the border. Afghanistan refused to do so, because of course it hurts Afghanistan. Afghanistan does not respect the territorial integrity of Pakistan, Karzai calls the Durand Line 'Invalid'. There are 1000 checkposts at the Pakistan side of the border, there are less than a 100 on the Afghan side. There are about Militants and extremists infiltrating into Pakistan via the Afghan side. They also get a lot of sympathy from many parts of Pakistan. There are also many billboards in Bannu and other cities of KPK and FATA for "Pakhtunistan". If you & your uncle are Pakhtun, then of course you'll feel a little aggrieved by the Pakistan Army, especially because you are probably swayed by your kinship towards your Afghan Pashtuns, but please look at things from the notion of the Pakistani nation's benefit. The Pakistani Army hasn't done ANYTHING that a noble army protecting its nation hasn't done.

Yarra who brought in Pakhtunistan, and Pakhtun and Durand line etcc... all in this? Find me one post in this thread where I had mentioned the word Pakhtun. I am a hardcore Pakistani Nationalist, and so are my uncles. Is it wrong for me to believe that Pakistan Army had committed a few bad things in NWFP?!!!??? comman man!?

---------- Post added at 07:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:41 PM ----------

And as I said, I have family members of ALL ranks in the Army, not just the ones that take orders from others. And I repeat, you are entitled to your opinion, I am to mine, and I respect your opinion.

LOL. ROFL... good for you and your family.

 

[53fd]

Yarra who brought in Pakhtunistan, and Pakhtun and Durand line etcc... all in this? Find me one post in this thread where I had mentioned the word Pakhtun. I am a hardcore Pakistani Nationalist, and so are my uncles. Is it wrong for me to believe that Pakistan Army had committed a few bad things in NWFP?!!!??? comman man!?

---------- Post added at 07:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:41 PM ----------



good for you and your family.

What about the things that the Pakistan Army has had to face? You can believe whatever you want, it is the illegal Afghans and the Al-Qaeda terrorist scum infiltrating from Afghanistan into Pakistan causing all the havoc inside Pakistan; as a response to which the Pakistani Army acts. The Pakistani Army had never stepped foot into FATA prior to 2001, which is the reason why it still supports a great amount of support from the local jirgas there. The Pakistani Army responds to threats against this nation, it doesn't do anything else. And it has enough on its plate because of that. Try to understand that.

 

[SparklingCrescent]

What about the things that the Pakistan Army has had to face? You can believe whatever you want, it is the illegal Afghans and the Al-Qaeda terrorist scum infiltrating from Afghanistan into Pakistan causing all the havoc inside Pakistan; as a response to which the Pakistani Army acts. The Pakistani Army had never stepped foot into FATA prior to 2001, which is the reason why it still supports a great amount of support from the local jirgas there. The Pakistani Army responds to threats against this nation, it doesn't do anything else. And it has enough in its plate because of that. Try to understand that.

YAA Allah.. Al-Qaida this $hit and Afghanistan that $hit. Can you please stop teaching me? trust me, I know my stuff ..

 

[khurasaan1]

"....but I fail to understand the reasons behind parroting this 'anti-Army' rhetoric by some posters here, who obviously have the interests of Pakistan at heart.

Bro ...I guess u dont get sometimes the pplz emotional feelings...sometimes its a message to some external powerz who alwayz play dirty and trying to use Pak Army for this purpose...

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

It's very easy to be swayed by propaganda against the only reason why our country is still surviving!

The kind of "surviving" that Pakistan is doing is simply not enough for a lot of people who constantly get killed in drone attacks... The problem with people like you is that you have a subconcious divide between the poor tribal people who are cannon fodder and their constant killing is justified and alright, and then there is you who are of some sort of superior caste perhaps and have nt yet been blown to bits in a drone attack... so everything is grand and why are some people complaining about the Army?? Oh right... the government has nt ordered the Army to stop the drone attacks and please dont talk about Musharaf who had nothing to do with the Army...

What a sick joke...

 

[53fd]

The kind of "surviving" that Pakistan is doing is simply not enough for a lot of people who constantly get killed in drone attacks... The problem with people like you is that you have a subconcious divide between the poor tribal people who are cannon fodder and their constant killing is justified and alright, and then there is you who are of some sort of superior caste perhaps and have nt yet been blown to bits in a drone attack... so everything is grand and why are some people complaining about the Army?? Oh right... the government has nt ordered the Army to stop the drone attacks and please dont talk about Musharaf who had nothing to do with the Army...

What a sick joke...

You ask the government of Pakistan to tell the US 'stop the drone attacks', they'll stop them, & the Army will stop accommodating the Americans. If the Americans still don't stop, the Army will make them stop. It is the government that are the sell-outs, not the Army. You're looking at the wrong side buddy. The Army has closed down supply routes for the Americans before. The Army has repeatedly said that drone attacks are a violation of the nation's sovereignty, yet it is the government that never speaks up against these things, and doesn't say no, & always heeds to the wishes of the Americans. Stop blaming the Army for the faults of the Zardari government.

 

[khurasaan1]

You ask the government of Pakistan to tell the US 'stop the drone attacks', they'll stop them, & the Army will stop accommodating the Americans. If the Americans still don't stop, the Army will make it stops. It is the government that are sell-outs, not the Army. You're looking at the wrong side buddy. The Army has closed down supply routes for the Americans before. The Army has repeatedly said that drone attacks are a violation of the nation's sovereignty, yet it is the government that never speaks up against these things, and doesn't say no, & always heeds to the wishes of the Americans. Stop blaming the Army for the faults of the Zardari government.

So u means Army is okay and cant be blamed if the govt becomes a sellout or traitor...???????
what Army shold do when the Govt is a traitor , still listen to the traitors and obey them and be loyal to them????????
U know every person under the present circumstances is cursing out the Army as well , on the streets they saying now that Army(top brass) is sell out too...cuz they obeying the traitors too....Isnt it amazing??...
The Army under the present scenarios shold act and put all the traitors and hang them on the poles ... otherwise no need to call themselves Army of Pakistan instead they are called Army of Bristish/USA by the ordinary Pakistaniz....its so shameful now.
If the Army wanna get respectable position within the hearts and mindz of Pakistani pplz they shold shoot down the drones without any hesitation...if they think it is right to do otherwise get blamed as a sell out too...
Are they scared of their jobs that they will be sent home . They cant even sacrifice their job to save the life of innocent pplz by shooting these drones down.
Who is gonna send them home , this traitor govt.???
They shold then join the public , kickout these evil traitors from the country or kill them and become the heroes of the nation.
This isthe only solution for them now...
Plz. We needa stop this balme game. we all are to be blamed cuz we all are acting as hypocrites..we all are supposed to get punishment...we all are cowards and scaring for our lifes.
shame on everybody of us trying to fool ourselves is a damn shame. I guess we are creating a chance for Allah SBWT to perish us like the "Qaum of AAD and Samood" in Quran.
Is better to do "Taubah" before this time comes and we all go collectively under the ground and then there will be no more country or pplz or govts. We can see inside of us that we all are sell outs and traitors just obeying our desires and "Nafs" we really need a severe beating/punishment/burning from Allah SBWT.
I hve nothing else to say, everything is so clear.

 

[Xeric]

marra no one asked for your families Army background. I can say the same stuff and say that my uncle today at this moment is in Swat, located in Kabal Tehsil in Shahderai serving with the Army. So what dude? Its his job to take orders. And no lol, I dont have to be carefull about speaking with you, I will interview my uncle who's a retired brigadier and give you his perspective on this war. Not every soldier in Pakistan likes the way this war is planned out either. I can criticize or back or Love the Army whenever I want. Please, save the rest to yourself Thank You..

The way you write about the situation, it tells me alot about your mindset.

Anywaz, that's not the concern right now, but what concerns me is your coldness towards the military though you have men form your family serving in the battle zone. Now on a personal note i must say that if the fact that your uncle who fights at Kabal cant correct your attitude then no one here could do so either. i doubt that you would not be in contact with that uncle of yours, or else you would have been talking some sense here. But if you are in contact with him then it's a shame that after hearing what he had to say your attitude still stays indifferent. i can only pity you.

As for your brag regarding the Brig uncle of yours, well i am grateful that he's no more serving or else we might had to wait another year, a few hundred more casualties and some more insults before we finally decide to get into this WoT.

So chill out, coz i am not the one who has his uncles, daddies, or cousins in the Army, but who know the organization inside out!

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

How lame is that, Pakistan army not open to criticism? has it not answers to persuade that it must now recourse to "sky will fall" reaction? The suggestion that interests of "politicians" is being served in offering criticism, suggests that Army is just not on the same page as the politicians who are the Government of Pakistan? Isn't that so??

Did I suggest that you not criticize the Army? However, in the context of the authors quote (with which you obviously agree), my criticism is quite valid. The author chose to make the patently false and dishonest argument that it is the military that is hogging resources, whereas the reality (as I pointed out) is that it is the PSE's alone that are losing an amount close to the entire defence budget.

So what else am I to call such 'deflection' from the much more serious weaknesses in the Pakistani State, other than a disingenuous and dishonest deflection onto the Army bogeyman?

On the one hand, defenders of non-reason suggest that politicians are to blame and on the other they say the people of Pakistan are to blame for the problems of the army as a political and governance power house.

The politicians are to blame for their current inability to enact reforms and take positions that have overwhelming public and media support. I fail to see how that characterization is inaccurate.

As for your second point above, I have no clue what you are talking about. Strawman?

Are there tons and tons of problems in Pakistan? Enough to go around?? yes, and then some, so why, instead of this defending when correction is called for??

What correction? When you ignore the overwhelmingly major issues causing Pakistan's resource constraints and parrot emotional Army bashing rhetoric, I believe re-directing the conversation to the REAL issues behind Pakistan's resource constraints is completely appropriate.

How about offering some constructive genuine criticizm of the Army? Suggestions on how to improve COIN? Resource utilization? Procurements?

 

[Irfan Baloch]

How about offering some constructive genuine criticizm of the Army? Suggestions on how to improve COIN? Resource utilization? Procurements?

its a big ask from our friend, lets see whats the answer.

 

[khurasaan1]

Bros.. the present form of govt structure is enforced on us by the west/British thats why obviously these politicians are gonna serve their interests not ours ..cuz the Govt system is totally under their control not ours . The secret funding to the politicians is done thats why they win elections. The west invest in the politicians, the money is used for bying votes. The public sell votes for money thats why they get such kind of traitors in the top positions . Our public is fully sinful in this kinda political game. There is Hadith by Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) " Jaisey awaam waisay hukmaraan". So we are all equally involved in this selfish political system. .. Yes! In order to cure the system we gotta stop the funnelling of money through secret channels from outsideforeign investers to our politicians. Or the politicians having contacts in the foreign nations should be made ineligible. Then there is some chance of changing or getting rid of traitors otherwise our public gonna keep producing new and new traitorz within the country....
and who can do this we gotta use danda of the Army i guess..if they got gutts. If not then we are slaves for the rest of our lives...

 

[SparklingCrescent]

The way you write about the situation, it tells me alot about your mindset.

Anywaz, that's not the concern right now, but what concerns me is your coldness towards the military though you have men form your family serving in the battle zone. Now on a personal note i must say that if the fact that your uncle who fights at Kabal cant correct your attitude then no one here could do so either. i doubt that you would not be in contact with that uncle of yours, or else you would have been talking some sense here.

Yes, Go on and deduce my mindset concerning what I have written “here” only. Rather you are surpassingly the cleverest of us all. Well done.

But if you are in contact with him then it's a shame that after hearing what he had to say your attitude still stays indifferent. i can only pity you.

You really believe that every single soldier of Pak Army liked the previous war strategy? You are missing out on a lot, and I pity you a lot in return.

As for your brag regarding the Brig uncle of yours,

Apparently you practically disregarded the actual “brag” in bilalhaiders post and stormed to the conclusion that “I’m” a bragger. Pitiful.

I have family members of ALL ranks in the Army, not just the ones that take orders from others

Moreover, it was also in the same post you thanked too. Pathetic. My supposed “brag” was brought about on purpose and was dedicated to bilalhaider who bragged about his family’s HIGH stance in Pak Army. The dude needs to learn to relaxxx and become aware of the fact that not Every Patriotic Pakistani likes the Army. I’m guessing he read where I was located at and paranoia took over therefore assuming that it’s totally normal that I, for being a Pakhtun, hate the Army (Although I will prove to you I like the Army. PM me, and I will be more then glad to)

i am grateful that he's no more serving or else we might had to wait another year, a few hundred more casualties

So you come to an end that my uncle wasn’t in favor of this war? Why so? Please tell me as I’m very curious.

Not every soldier in Pakistan likes the way this war is planned out either.

If this war was under his command, at least he experienced the reality of Swat and the rest of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa. He would’ve felt sympathy for Pakistanis living in KP and would’ve initiated the operation way ahead of time, unlike Mush who wanted negotiations with terrorist, which also took well over a year and over a thousand sacrifices of innocent people including my own. Moreover, Mush blindly sent forward some thousands of troops who didn't have permission to fire a bullet at a terrorist across from him; even worse.

The responses in both cases were that the soldiers had received orders to not engage the Taliban, except in self-defense when under direct attack from the militants.

and some more insults before we finally decide to get into this WoT

.

More insults? The Army was recognized as another Taliban proxy for not taking action. They (the Army) had already created enough damage for themselves as a result of not doing anything despite the fact that people were dying right in front of them. Just recently right after Rah e Rast did the Army’s reputation get better and better; and we all hope it gets better Inshallah.

So chill out, coz i am not the one who has his uncles, daddies, or cousins in the Army, but who know the organization inside out!

Here goes another one, you know the organization in and out, well good for you.

Later on, when the right time comes, I will share some interesting stuff with all of you guys.

 

[Xeric]

You really believe that every single soldier of Pak Army liked the previous war strategy? You are missing out on a lot, and I pity you a lot in return.

So now it become 'previous' war strategy. Bravo!

Look like you are impressed by Musey's way of debating.