Stop maligning the military

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

How is what you propose different from what we have now, other than parliamentary vs Presidential?

The Legislation... we legislate against Islam by allowing the parliamentarians to devise laws for us... which are against Islam... quick examples...

1. Interest based transaction
2. 17th Amendment
3. NRO

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

Thank you recognizing the right to a difference of opinions, but would you please care to explain how your "solution" could be implemented practically, so that other, including me, could hope to benefit from your insights?

The ideas are out there... I and others have quoted these "insights" numerous times on this very forum...

We have gone off topic again (I know its me... wherever I go... these things follow)... Perhaps there should be a new thread on this... and close the thread on maligning the Army... we want the Army to listen to us and thats what they are doing... not just in real world but also cyberspace... (my only anger is at the top brass now)...

Heres a speech by someone I know... the poor man has been arrested by intelligence agencies at one point (for obviously being a patriot and working for the Caliphate)... I do give the Army credit that although we have had reports of a few disgusting beatings to some of the activists who work for this idea... we have never had anyone killed... The talk of Caliphate used to carry the death sentence for Muslims in countries such as Iraq, Libya and continues to do so in Uzbekistan...

Anyway... I was going to send everyone this video in Private message... Please take a look and think about these issues... have a busy day ahead... but any comments, you can send to my inbox also...

it should also be noted...some people accuse me of towing party lines of certain groups... it is unfortunate that there are very few people/groups talking on these lines... one does nt have to be a member of a group to adopt certain ideas... so no labeling please... You would be surprised but most of the non Muslims who know me politically and at work think I am a moderate Muslim... LOL

JazakAllah Khair all of you!!!

 

[khurasaan1]

Then please tell Zardari sahib and the PPP to change their position:

Some ”revelations” are less surprising, such as Zardari’s government signing off on controversial drone attacks while simultaneously condemning them as a breach of sovereignty, confirming analysts’ suspicions. "I don't care if they do it as long as they get the right people. We'll protest in the National Assembly and then ignore it,” he was quoted as saying in a cable.

Zardari’s political opponents may find it hard to extract mileage from the revelations, however. Opposition leader Mr. Sharif, who plays on anti-Americanism to cement his base with the Pakistani right, repeatedly reassured Ambassador Patterson of his “pro-American” credentials in a February 2008 cable. And according to the Guardian newspaper, Maulana Fazlur Rehman, leader of the country’s largest Islamist party, hosted a dinner for the ambassador where he solicited her backing for becoming prime minister, and made it clear that his votes were “up for sale.”​

When Musharraf was in charge blaming the Army for the drone strikes was fine. Since the civvies are in charge now, please ask Zardari and Gillani sahib (the leaders elected by Pakistanis) to change their stance on Drones and order the Army to stop the attacks. If then the Army fails to do so, I'll condemn the Army with you, but till then, this is the responsibility of the civilian leadership, not the military.

Okay I appreciate ure time to take the side with the Army ...but I have one clear question from u ...

Is Zardari or the democratic govt is traitor or no....???? plz give yes or no...

IF ANS is YES: and if they r traitors so what is the job of the Army ...To side with the traitors or obey them...?????????
If Army dont arrest them and hang them then Army is traitor too... its so simple..bro...no need for the blame game...

IF ANS is NO: and if they are not traitors then you got no right to blame Mr Ghaddari and his loyal Govt...to the nation...then they r doing their job excellent....I mean letting the innocent pplz die and fully applauding/obeying their Zionist Yankees Masters.
Hence we are left in the court of Allah SBWT to help/save us cuz nobody in this world is going to help us not the Govt or the Army cuz everybody is looking at their paychecks...what a shame ...

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

You don't support the civilians running the country and you obviously don't support the military - so what does that leave us? Train some monkey's to do it? Would that be acceptable or is that still too highly evolved a primate for you?

More than anyone else... I want our Army to be a professional Army... and yes I do want Civilian leadership BUT that leadership should have some calibre... it should have some vision... it should have a plan not just for the people but also for the Army... that the Army looks at and accepts... Our Army needs are huge... we are Muslims, notions of Justice are in our blood... so we cannot be like Buddhists and talk pacifism... there is a lot of wrong happening in the world today... the problems is we are dead politically, ideologically, morally and vision wise... why is it that today NATO, EU and America can come over Libyan skies to enforce a NFZ yet Egypt next doors having a professional Army and an air force of more than 800 planes is unable to do the same?? Despite the fact that Islam commands Muslims to go to the aid of the oppressed??

Just yesterday I got a message from a human rights activist in the west saying that she was very uncomfortable with this NFZ business as she did not trust the western governments one bit... but she was unable to think of alternatives as Gaddafi the mad dog needs to be finished also... as soon as I mentioned Egypt, she goes... Oh yes... that would ve been perfect!!! Muslims sorting out their own problems!!!

for this we need thinkers and planners at the helm!!! a Mr 10 percent wont do... a Mr Busharaf wont do...

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

Okay I appreciate ure time to take the side with the Army ...but I have one clear question from u ...

Is Zardari or the democratic govt is traitor or no....???? plz give yes or no...

IF ANS is YES: and if they r traitors so what is the job of the Army ...To side with the traitors or obey them...?????????
If Army dont arrest them and hang them then Army is traitor too... its so simple..bro...no need for the blame game...

IF ANS is NO: and if they are not traitors then you got no right to blame Mr Ghaddari and his loyal Govt...to the nation...then they r doing their job excellent....I mean letting the innocent pplz die and fully applauding/obeying their Zionist Yankees Masters.
Hence we are left in the court of Allah SBWT to help/save us cuz nobody in this world is going to help us not the Govt or the Army cuz everybody is looking at their paychecks...what a shame ...

We dont need to hang anyone... but these people... these traitors should be removed from politics... they are all an insult to our people, our sentiments, our remaining sense of dignity and justice...

 

[khurasaan1]

We dont need to hang anyone... but these people... these traitors should be removed from politics... they are all an insult to our people, our sentiments, our remaining sense of dignity and justice...

Bro...These traitors are not ordinary traitors but instead they r involved in the killings of thousands of innocent pplz here hence according to Holy Quran or Bilble ..is a blood for blood...so obviously they shold be hungup....
and if they are not involved in the killings of innocent pplz and still traitors ..then they could be sent to prison accordingly
like what they do in yankees states...

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

The Legislation... we legislate against Islam by allowing the parliamentarians to devise laws for us... which are against Islam... quick examples...

1. Interest based transaction
2. 17th Amendment
3. NRO

Then convince people to vote for parliamentarians who do not support the polices you oppose ...

 

[Xeric]

I want to see the military under civilian control as much as anyone. The question is why doesn't it happen. We have seen the representatives of democraticpolitical parties agreeing that military needs to stop interfering. Then simply make changes to the Constitution to regard any coup as treason against Pakistan.

Question is; why isn't this happening?

There's no need to amend the Constitution for this. Whenever there's a coup or the Army imposes a martial law, the matter ultimately lands in Supreme Court's court. If it uphelds the martial law, well it becomes legitimate then. Amending the Constitution as regards to closing the doors from a military rule for guud would be like giving the political parties a 'free one night pass', only it would not be valid for one-night.

The answer is that our political leadership needs someone with whom they can share their concern for Pakistan's safety. They need someone's shoulder to cry on.

How many parties out there can honestly claim that they've never aimed at getting support from the military? Name any major political party out there and you'll see their history with the military. There are only a handful of true grass-roots level parties out there.
A large part of our politicians are hypocrites. They all claim to be supporters of democracy while maintaing a feudal hold on their parties. Any voice of dissent is silenced.

It is true that some of the Generals may have crossed their limits, but they were led into this government scenario by our very democratic parties.

If there is someone to blame, then it has to be the current government who despite enjoying an unprecedented support from various groups, still won't take steps to prevent future coups. Truth is; they want that option if their opponents get to power.

Bingo!

 

[Xeric]

AM: I don't speak for anyone else, but I honestly tried to find the answer to that question, among many others, for many many years before I reluctantly decided to emigrate. I don't think that anybody is likely to find a workable solution, as much as one is needed so direly.

Please note I am not against the military, coming from a military family myself. I am also very honest is recognizing my failures in adapting to the prevailing situation in Pakistan that led to my emigration, and also in saying that I, and others like me, have no moral authority to tell people who are living there anything. What I do want to do is to help if I can, if I am allowed to, that is all, should a miracle occur.

First, i thankyou for being truthful. That's quite bold of you. It's not easy for humans to discuss their shortcomings.

But then, abhi tu kuch nahi howa?

What happened to the 'we fight last bullet, last man?'

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

Bro...These traitors are not ordinary traitors but instead they r involved in the killings of thousands of innocent pplz here hence according to Holy Quran or Bilble ..is a blood for blood...so obviously they shold be hungup....
and if they are not involved in the killings of innocent pplz and still traitors ..then they could be sent to prison accordingly
like what they do in yankees states...

I agree with you... but my elders dont... the idea is to show mercy to the worst of these traitors... and move on... the traitors wont have a say in the Caliphate... everyone knows who they are... I m actually preparing a list of Army Lt Generals who are involved in crimes against Pakistan (like fearing America instead of Allah) today... It is nt difficult to pinpoint who is who and what they are about...

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

Then convince people to vote for parliamentarians who do not support the polices you oppose ...

That is something we do all the time...

 

[Patriot]

MBQ,
Why 1. Interest based transaction is unislamic?

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

MBQ,
Why 1. Interest based transaction is unislamic?

hmmm??

War – Allah has declared war on those who consume interest. In Surah al-Baqarah, verses 278-27 of the Quran, He says: “O you who believe! Be afraid of Allah and give up what remains (due to you) from riba (usury) (from now onward), if you are (really) believers. And if you do not do it, then take a notice of war from Allah and His Messenger . . .”

The scope of forbidding Interest – the Prophet has clearly told us those who are parties to an interest-based contract. Jaabir reported that the Prophet cursed “the one who consumes riba, the one who gives it to others, the one who writes it down and the one who witnesses it. They are all the same.” (Muslim, 3/1219).

Trade – Allah has made a clear distinction between riba and trade, to quash the arguments of those who say they are merely engaging in trade. In the Quran, surah al-Baqarah, verse 275, He says: Those who eat riba (usury) will not stand (on the Day of Resurrection) except like the standing of a person beaten by Shaitan (Satan) leading him to insanity. That is because they say: ‘Trading is only like riba,’ whereas Allah has permitted trading and forbidden riba. So whosoever receives an admonition from his Lord and stops eating riba shall not be punished for the past; his case is for Allah (to judge); but whoever returns (to riba), such are the dwellers of the Fire - they will abide therein.”

Hope this helps... jzkAllah

 

[Xeric]

After having outlived its utility, i think this thread needs to be closed.

 

[RazorMC]

but what happend to ZAB? he was killed by another fellow muslim, not uncle sam.

That is the sad part of this story.
He had his faults, but he shouldn't have been hanged.