Steel Cutting Ceremony of Hangor Class Submarine held at KSEW

[waz]

In his Hangor Day Message,Chief of Naval Staff, Admiral Muhammad Amjad Khan Niazi, announced that 5th Hangor Class submarine being constructed in Pakistan would be named as PNS/M TASNIM, after the Commanding Officer of PNS/M Hangor (S131) during 1971 war.#PNSHangor #Pakistan https://t.co/DRVEyxAIOp

What a fitting thing to do. Captain Tasnim and his men saved the PN and in fact Pakistan from further major losses in the 71 war. They did the impossible i.e. take out two frigates. Allah bless them.

 

[MultaniGuy]

Good. We should cooperate with the Chinese as much as possible.
But we need Chinese help to improve Pakistani economy.

 

[Akh1112]

Why don't Pakistan get Nuclear powered submarines. ?

With time, everything will happen. There is a need and a desire within the PN, we just need to bridge the gap between the two which is the hard part. Some say theres already a design. Allahu Alim, but itll happen IMO

 

[SABRE]

Slightly disappointed going by the Picture of the signing ceremony, no VLS. Any how, good going PN as far as standard attack SSK goes.

Don't want to get your hopes high but don't go by the picture.

 

[Shotgunner51]

Picture of the signing ceremony, no VLS

Sub in backdrop of the signing ceremony is a PLAN active duty 039B (standard SSK), not Hangor, with the flag photoshoped. This is original picture from May last year:

 

[MIRauf]

Don't want to get your hopes high but don't go by the picture.

No, VLS or no, it's still great that PN is adding teeth to it's sub fleet.

PS: Not sure if PLAAN fields any active SSK with VLS anyway, can't recall one. Correct me if I are wrong.

 

[Shotgunner51]

Don't want to get your hopes high but don't go by the picture.

That's correct, sub in the picture isn't Hangor. Moreover land-attack cruise missile (e.g. YJ-8 series, conventional/nuclear warhead) can be launched through 039B torpedo tubes, VLS is not a necessary condition. But I'm not sure whether Hangor has additional VLS module or not, there's no technical barrier to adding one.

 

[TNT]

How does the torpedo and missile tubes work on submarines? Can more missiles and torpedoes be loaded onto the tubes after firing the existing ones?

 

[MIRauf]

Hangor SSP is a variant of the S26, an export variant of the Yuan with Sterling AIP.

My guess is that the PN went with a vanilla-ish build. I know we all heard the $4-5 billion US figure (from Financial Times), but I think that price included the 8 Hangors, 4 Type 054A/P frigates, and other special mission ships from China. IMO, each Hangor likely came at $300-350 m per boat, which is a great price for a mature AIP platform with reliable ASW and AShW capabilities.

That said, I can tell you that the PN is still looking for more submarines, both shallow-water attack boats and another full-sized AIP boat. The latter is slated to replace the Agosta 90Bs by around 2040. I can't allude to the origin or make just yet, but the PN will aim for every optimal feature. Don't expect VLS because, for the ASW and AShW roles, that isn't a must-have. Rather, think about the AIP, batteries, piping, electronics management, steel, etc. You can say it's the PN's Project AZM


We've heard credible rumours of a boomer in development. But as you said, it's difficult to design, build and validate (for safety and performance). I'm sure the PN is intent on having it, but a SSBN is likely a ways out. Probably a culmination of everything after all is said and done.

Well VLS does have certain advantages, one is that it's weapon is ready to go in minutes notice while for the torpedo tube, load torpedo tube 2 with weapon xxx," which takes some time. It also allows for segregation of weapons, while Forward Topedo Room may hold max 12/18 weapons ( for example, ) now mix and match and your max carrying choice goes down for each type.

Sorry, I should have been more clearer, I was referring to SSN, I usually shy away from SSBNs. In PN case, a beefier SSK could carry 4/6 odd VLS for SLCM, that is what I was referring to in case if I miss-typed SLBM in previous post while intending to type SLCM.

Good to hear that PN will go past the 11 mark, always inviosned that 15/18 to be a good number of Attack Subs that PN should have.

 

[Shotgunner51]

Not sure if PLAAN fields any active SSK with VLS anyway, can't recall one. Correct me if I are wrong.

VLS is not used on PLAN current batch of active 039B subs, they use torpedo tubes for YJ-8/82 cruise missile, YJ-18 AShM and of course torpedo. Not sure about new 039C variant (see post #14) though, but anyway land strikes in PLAN doctrine are more like "expeditionary" jobs for SSBN/SSN, not for conventional-powered 039B/C which usually operate closer to Chinese territorial waters.

 

[SABRE]

No, VLS or no, it's still great that PN is adding teeth to it's sub fleet.

PS: Not sure if PLAAN fields any active SSK with VLS anyway, can't recall one. Correct me if I are wrong.

Can't argue with the bold line.

They are experimenting with Qing-class diesel electric ballistic missile submarine, which as you can guess, has VLS.

 

[Dil Pakistan]

 

[SABRE]

That's correct, sub in the picture isn't Hangor. Moreover land-attack cruise missile (e.g. YJ-8 series, conventional/nuclear warhead) can be launched through 039B torpedo tubes, VLS is not a necessary condition. But I'm not sure whether Hangor has VLS or not.

Its more to do with Babur-III. But I am unsure if Babur-III necessitates VLS. If it doesn't then PN is likely to forgo VLS option to expedite the submarines' timely development.

 

[MIRauf]

How does the torpedo and missile tubes work on submarines? Can more missiles and torpedoes be loaded onto the tubes after firing the existing ones?

Old Daphine had to carry max load 12, they were loaded into torpedo tubes if not mistaken, drawback is that were exposed to salt water environment, no re-loads at sea. Newer PN Subs carry Load in the Torpedo Room, weapons are loaded as required so they are not exposed to salt water conditions, also when carrying mix load, tubes are loaded as needed.

A-90B carries total 16, so mix and match Torpedo + Missiles limits max each type. Now for PN that perhaps is best optimal load based on their current need. Now send a Boat to Eastern Shores of India, you may encounter that perhaps load is not enough in case you are unloading 12 odd SLCM on Bangalore or other Eastern Indian Strategic Centers.

Now add VLS to A-90B for sake of explanation, say 4/6 and that will give you option to carry 4/6 SLCM and still allow you to carry 16 'mix-match' ( if needed ) load in the forward torpedo room.

PS: U-Boat and USN Boats loaded torpedo tubes internally during WW-II, not sure why French opted with external Load design for the Daphine.

 

[Aesterix]

Sub in backdrop of the signing ceremony is a PLAN active duty 039B (standard SSK), not Hangor, with the flag photoshoped. This is original picture from last year:

View attachment 799992

So basically PN is making a "Maamu" of us?