Stategic Weaknesses and Strengths: Pakistan and India

[SMC]

It is ridiculous to compare Pakistan with India - Pakistan is somewhat trivial in comparison and the only interest India has in Pakistan has been to keep the latter's cross border terrorism in check.

Most India defence are Chinese oriented, including their partnership with the USA.

The bharati state obsession with CPEC, Balochistan, support for terrorism in FATA, Karachi, etc says otherwise. This is at the state level, forget the public. The bharati public obsession is at another level can be noticed from over the internet and the bharatis one interacts with in the public.

Let's cut the bullsh*t about no one in India caring about Pakistan or hating ordinary Pakistanis. The amount of hate I see from India when it comes to anything and everything Pakistan is through the stratosphere. Scratch that, it's actually into another solar system. The hate I see when it comes to cricket (calling "karma" when Pakistani cricketers were in an earthquake recently in New Zealand), Pakistan's economy and the itching for it to go back to $0 (you can see this based on most bharati posts in the economy forum), the obvious lack of excitement due to less terrorism in Pakistan, etc, pouncing on any negative news on Pakistan. Most of this has nothing to do with the Indian public. The obsession that one sees from Indians towards Pakistan is in another solar system. It's worse than anything I have seen between any other two countries.

Based on what you see in Indian politics, the media and from Indian population in general, it is quite obvious they want nothing less than Pakistan disappeared from the map and any trace of Pakistan gone from history. They are pissed off that a thing called Pakistan even exists today. Most Indians appear to be salivating over the prospect of a full scale war or a separated Balochistan and wanted it yesterday. This is from ordinary bharatis, not the worst hatemonger bharatis. You do not see the same kind of rhetoric between other countries even if they are allegedly interfering in each other's affairs. The hate from India is one of a kind and doesn't exist between any two other countries, no matter how bad they hate each other.

 

[FULL_METAL]

You neglected both navies.
Indian Navy huge advantages.
Pakistan Navy they will tell you better.

Indian coast guard can take care of Pakistan Navy, Indian navy will have bigger things to do in case of a war

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Indian coast guard can take care of Pakistan Navy, Indian navy will have bigger things to do in case of a war

I'm sure .. Indian coast guard are fish .. And would swam the frigates and over a dozen subs,MPAs etc... And beat PN by whipping their tails against ship hulls.

 

[FULL_METAL]

The bharati state obsession with CPEC, Balochistan, support for terrorism in FATA, Karachi, etc says otherwise. This is at the state level, forget the public. The bharati public obsession is at another level can be noticed from over the internet and the bharatis one interacts with in the public.

Let's cut the bullsh*t about no one in India caring about Pakistan or hating ordinary Pakistanis. The amount of hate I see from India when it comes to anything and everything Pakistan is through the stratosphere. Scratch that, it's actually into another solar system. The hate I see when it comes to cricket (calling "karma" when Pakistani cricketers were in an earthquake recently in New Zealand), Pakistan's economy and the itching for it to go back to $0 (you can see this based on most bharati posts in the economy forum), the obvious lack of excitement due to less terrorism in Pakistan, etc, pouncing on any negative news on Pakistan. Most of this has nothing to do with the Indian public. The obsession that one sees from Indians towards Pakistan is in another solar system. It's worse than anything I have seen between any other two countries.

Based on what you see in Indian politics, the media and from Indian population in general, it is quite obvious they want nothing less than Pakistan disappeared from the map and any trace of Pakistan gone from history. They are pissed off that a thing called Pakistan even exists today. Most Indians appear to be salivating over the prospect of a full scale war or a separated Balochistan and wanted it yesterday. This is from ordinary bharatis, not the worst hatemonger bharatis. You do not see the same kind of rhetoric between other countries even if they are allegedly interfering in each other's affairs. The hate from India is one of a kind and doesn't exist between any two other countries, no matter how bad they hate each other.

Seems you spend too much time on you tube and Times of India comment section, Don't judge a country of billions by the posts of a few social media baboons, Internet does not reflect the mindset of a country as large and complex as India. You are acting as if you know nothing but kissing and hugging and we are some kind of a monster wants to eat you for breakfast.

 

[SMC]

Seems you spend too much time on you tube and Times of India comment section, Don't judge a country of billions by the posts of a few social media baboons, Internet does not reflect the mindset of a country as large and complex as India. You are acting as if you know nothing but kissing and hugging and we are some kind of a monster wants to eat you for breakfast.

As I said, this is not just on the internet, although the internet is really where the true thoughts come out. The obsession in the general public that one meets face to face is out of this world as well. The obsession with Pakistan is complete, no two ways about it.

 

[FULL_METAL]

I'm sure .. Indian coast guard are fish .. And would swam the frigates and over a dozen subs,MPAs etc... And beat PN by whipping their tails against ship hulls.

Come on man, saal ke pehle din thora troll karna toh banta hai, aab itnaa bhi grumpy na bann

Not sure how long I will last this time, just wanna make it count

Happy new year BTW

As I said, this is not just on the internet, although the internet is really where the true thoughts come out. The obsession in the general public that one meets face to face is out of this world as well. The obsession with Pakistan is complete, no two ways about it.

Dude people here are obsessed with daal and onion prices, not with Pakstan, we Internet nerds are not even .01% of the total population, now chill and have a nice year ahead

 

[ZenBird]

Pakistani troop quality in terms of fitness and motivation is on average better than Indian. They are fighting for Islam in addition to country and are unified by a common religion.

 

[G0dfather]

I don't really see how that is a disadvantage; Pakistan has a massive and strong road infrastructure, capable of fast and smooth transport.


Yes and guess where that all comes from? China.

Just recently, India's IWT drama was humiliatingly pushed back to square one by China - even Indians are started to realize that China has them by the balls if India ever tried to divert even a liter of water away.

http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/china-reacts-guardedly-to-indus-water-treaty-talks-suspension-1467269
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...n-Tibet-to-build-dam/articleshow/54622469.cms
https://www.thequint.com/world/2016...eapon-pakistan-river-mekong-brahmaputra-tibet
http://tribune.com.pk/story/1191953...ver-india-threatens-scrap-indus-water-treaty/
http://qz.com/790885/narendra-modi-...o-scrap-the-indus-water-treaty-with-pakistan/
https://www.telegraphindia.com/1160924/jsp/frontpage/story_109996.jsp#.WGXliRsrK00
http://www.hindustantimes.com/analy...p-for-india/story-LLyx2YvAPsSSU4y9uLWxyK.html


Yes but they are heavily defended. If the entire Indian invasion force couldn't defeat halved garrisons in 1965; how do you think it will be possible to defeat the defensive measurements Pakistan has installed, now?


A geographically large country would thin its military concentration.


Larger army, but I would not say better. The Indian army is struggling to provide proper vests, helmets and even food to its soldiers. Pakistani soldiers per average seem to be much more motivated, fit (mentally and physically), experienced, trained and better equipped. But yes, the Indian military has shinier toys than us (such as it's navy and air defense).

All in all Pakistan has no weakness, it has only strengths.

 

[Hollow Field]

By that argument Indian navy is in a better position to block your supplies

Indeed, but it means India has to allocate its resources to protecting oil tanker convoys destined for India rather than attack Pakistani Positions. Granted the Indian Navy is larger, but it remains a strategic weakness for India, no matter how small

 

[Fireurimagination]

Indian Strengths (Which are Pakistan’s weakness)

Bigger Economy
Bigger Navy/Air force/Army
Bigger Landmass and population hence greater strategic depth
Bigger coastline
Bigger Industrial base
Bigger Oil Reserves
Control over water
Positive Image and soft power projection in west

Pakistan Strengths (Which are India’s weakness)

Will be fighting for survival hence more motivated I believe
Smaller size means faster mobilization
Less to lose in case of a nuclear conflict

 

[Qutb-ud-din Aybak]

Wrong Analysis.India-China border is mostly mountainous and India has separate formations for that.Plus,China never jumped into an India-Pakistan conflict(and they'll probably never will.Reality check)

Second,small coast is a disadvantage.India only has to block Karachi to put pressure on Pakistan.I wonder whether Pakistan has a Navy large enough to fight such a blockade,rather than imposing such blockade against Indian ports.

Even a defensive navy couldn't protect Karachi Harbor in 71.Think about that now.

China won't become a part of the war but it would still be a risky option for india to bring everything here and leave china border weakly defended. plus china can bring army closer to indian border for pressure tactics.

small coast wrt indian coast. and that small coast have atleast 4-5 ports with two big one karachi and gawader and some small ones.

Pakistan navy have the capability to destroy any ship with in 300km of the coast.
Secondly you can not block Pakistani supplies. We are connected with middle east,central asia and china through land. but we can make you suffer because of the small sea path to middle east which can easily covered by our coastal defense systems. and strong (will be more stronger after few years) submarine fleet.

 

[Chichago_bulls]

The bharati state obsession with CPEC, Balochistan, support for terrorism in FATA, Karachi, etc says otherwise. This is at the state level, forget the public. The bharati public obsession is at another level can be noticed from over the internet and the bharatis one interacts with in the public.

Let's cut the bullsh*t about no one in India caring about Pakistan or hating ordinary Pakistanis. The amount of hate I see from India when it comes to anything and everything Pakistan is through the stratosphere. Scratch that, it's actually into another solar system. The hate I see when it comes to cricket (calling "karma" when Pakistani cricketers were in an earthquake recently in New Zealand), Pakistan's economy and the itching for it to go back to $0 (you can see this based on most bharati posts in the economy forum), the obvious lack of excitement due to less terrorism in Pakistan, etc, pouncing on any negative news on Pakistan. Most of this has nothing to do with the Indian public. The obsession that one sees from Indians towards Pakistan is in another solar system. It's worse than anything I have seen between any other two countries.

Based on what you see in Indian politics, the media and from Indian population in general, it is quite obvious they want nothing less than Pakistan disappeared from the map and any trace of Pakistan gone from history. They are pissed off that a thing called Pakistan even exists today. Most Indians appear to be salivating over the prospect of a full scale war or a separated Balochistan and wanted it yesterday. This is from ordinary bharatis, not the worst hatemonger bharatis. You do not see the same kind of rhetoric between other countries even if they are allegedly interfering in each other's affairs. The hate from India is one of a kind and doesn't exist between any two other countries, no matter how bad they hate each other.

A simple question for all that you have mentioned above. Do you think Pakistani public in general and your government and establishment in particular is any better towards India ?

China won't become a part of the war but it would still be a risky option for india to bring everything here and leave china border weakly defended. plus china can bring army closer to indian border for pressure tactics.

small coast wrt indian coast. and that small coast have atleast 4-5 ports with two big one karachi and gawader and some small ones.

Pakistan navy have the capability to destroy any ship with in 300km of the coast.
Secondly you can not block Pakistani supplies. We are connected with middle east,central asia and china through land. but we can make you suffer because of the small sea path to middle east which can easily covered by our coastal defense systems. and strong (will be more stronger after few years) submarine fleet.

Dude do you have any idea what you are talking about. China + Pakistan against India will be nothing but the begining of WW3. And what ever happen afterwords I bet it will leave all the three of us in very bad shape.

 

[Qutb-ud-din Aybak]

Indian Strengths (Which are Pakistan’s weakness)

Bigger Economy
Bigger Navy/Air force/Army
Bigger Landmass and population hence greater strategic depth
Bigger coastline
Bigger Industrial base
Bigger Oil Reserves
Control over water
Positive Image and soft power projection in west

Pakistan Strengths (Which are India’s weakness)

Will be fighting for survival hence more motivated I believe
Smaller size means faster mobilization
Less to lose in case of a nuclear conflict

Indian Strengths (Which are Pakistan’s weakness)

Bigger Economy: 2/3 of which will be lost even if investors see a dream with war.
Bigger Navy/Air force/Army:airforce 1:1.9->can't leave east and china border. would be reduced to maximum of1:1.2
Navy-> Yes but Pakistan have land connection with middle east,central asia and china. could not play big role.
Army-> last time it was 500k pakistani soldiers facing 700k indians. not much difference. India can't leave china border unguarded.
Bigger Landmass and population hence greater strategic depth->yes.
Bigger coastline-> it is also a weak point. india need to defend more. naval strength will be compromised.
Bigger Industrial base->Mostly foreign investors. Which will leave india. Remember 2002.
Bigger Oil Reserves-> but bigger needs. oil is india's one of the biggest import.
Control over water->indian states of gujrat and rajistan gets water from Pakistan. Also ferozpor headworks and sulimanki headworks are close to Pakistan border. Indian punjab will also lose water.
Positive Image and soft power projection in west->West won't come to help you in war. They would most probably impose sanctions on both countries.

Pakistan Strengths (Which are India’s weakness)

Will be fighting for survival hence more motivated I believe.->true
Smaller size means faster mobilization->true. more investment in this field had been done due to war on terror.
Less to lose in case of a nuclear conflict->yes.
Strong coastal defence systems-> chinese are best when it comes to anti ship weapons. Pakistan are china close friend.
location-> Pakistan is located between middle east,central asia and china. It won't have problems in getting help from friendly countries nor oil import will be a problem.
Tribal lashkars->Atleast 1 million train people from tribes of Pakistan who have afghanistan experience will be fighting alongside army.
CPEC-> atleast 50 countries stakes would be in Pakistan due to CPEC. India would be under immence pressure. specially china who have history of going to wars for defending it's interests.

A simple question for all that you have mentioned above. Do you think Pakistani public in general and your government and establishment in particular is any better towards India ?



Dude do you have any idea what you are talking about. China + Pakistan against India will be nothing but the begining of WW3. And what ever happen afterwords I bet it will leave all the three of us in very bad shape.

Wars leave everyone in bad shape but you have to face the bitter truth. China have problems at east china sea. They have stakes in Pakistan now. It will be a war of survival for china too.

static numbers don't count in war. It's role are just 20%. Rest is bravery,strategy,leadership and unity.

 

[Fireurimagination]

Bigger Economy: 2/3 of which will be lost even if investors see a dream with war.

Think what will happen to Pakistan's economy then. Whole of Pakistan is game for India, in fact your big cities are next to border whereas our Mumbai, Bangalore, Chennai, Hyderabad are deep inside and will mostly remain untouched

Bigger Navy/Air force/Army:airforce 1:1.9->can't leave east and china border. would be reduced to maximum of1:1.2

Himalayas are natural barrier between India and China, the remaining terrain is also quite mountainous so not much resources are required there. Also Indo-China border is not heavily militarized as of now so no worries there, it will be same as Pak-Iran or Pak-Afghanistan border for us

Navy-> Yes but Pakistan have land connection with middle east,central asia and china. could not play big role.

Majority of voluminous trade in done through sea-lanes for a reason, some emergency supply yes buy you can't fight a war with your ports blocked, you already have a fragile economy and I read somewhere Pakistan has only 5 days or so of oil reserves

Army-> last time it was 500k pakistani soldiers facing 700k indians. not much difference. India can't leave china border unguarded.

Lot of water has flown down the bridge since then, PA may be a match for IA on it's own but if you factor IAF's superiority over PAF it's a different story and if in a war IAF manages to dominated skies its game over for PA also

Bigger coastline-> it is also a weak point. india need to defend more. naval strength will be compromised.

Not really, PN doesn't have the resource to thin itself out, if you lose even 20-25% of your Navy in the first phase of the war a blockade will be imminent

Bigger Industrial base->Mostly foreign investors. Which will leave india. Remember 2002.

Again not really, in manufacturing and infrastructure it's mostly Indian giants

Bigger Oil Reserves-> but bigger needs. oil is india's one of the biggest import.

We have strategic oil reserves running in to billions of barrels of crude you guys don't

Control over water->indian states of gujrat and rajistan gets water from Pakistan. Also ferozpor headworks and sulimanki headworks are close to Pakistan border. Indian punjab will also lose water.

We are linking all our rivers hence no water shortage in any part of country for us in near future, any war this time IWT gets scrapped for sure just another bargaining chip we have

Positive Image and soft power projection in west->West won't come to help you in war. They would most probably impose sanctions on both countries.

True, our image means less international pressure on India and more on Pakistan as Pakistan is seen as a lose canon whereas India as a responsible power

Tribal lashkars->Atleast 1 million train people from tribes of Pakistan who have afghanistan experience will be fighting alongside army.

Why do you need tribals, don't you have regular reserves if needed, we have more than a million of them

CPEC-> atleast 50 countries stakes would be in Pakistan due to CPEC. India would be under immence pressure. specially china who have history of going to wars for defending it's interests.

It will be the opposite, China or any other country doesn't have any leverage with India, they need India's huge market. Thus they will pressurize Pakistan more to cease hostilities as they have much say there and it's their investment which is at stake there

 

[Post Colonnial]

The bharati state obsession with CPEC, Balochistan, support for terrorism in FATA, Karachi, etc says otherwise. This is at the state level, forget the public. The bharati public obsession is at another level can be noticed from over the internet and the bharatis one interacts with in the public.

Let's cut the bullsh*t about no one in India caring about Pakistan or hating ordinary Pakistanis. The amount of hate I see from India when it comes to anything and everything Pakistan is through the stratosphere. Scratch that, it's actually into another solar system. The hate I see when it comes to cricket (calling "karma" when Pakistani cricketers were in an earthquake recently in New Zealand), Pakistan's economy and the itching for it to go back to $0 (you can see this based on most bharati posts in the economy forum), the obvious lack of excitement due to less terrorism in Pakistan, etc, pouncing on any negative news on Pakistan. Most of this has nothing to do with the Indian public. The obsession that one sees from Indians towards Pakistan is in another solar system. It's worse than anything I have seen between any other two countries.

Based on what you see in Indian politics, the media and from Indian population in general, it is quite obvious they want nothing less than Pakistan disappeared from the map and any trace of Pakistan gone from history. They are pissed off that a thing called Pakistan even exists today. Most Indians appear to be salivating over the prospect of a full scale war or a separated Balochistan and wanted it yesterday. This is from ordinary bharatis, not the worst hatemonger bharatis. You do not see the same kind of rhetoric between other countries even if they are allegedly interfering in each other's affairs. The hate from India is one of a kind and doesn't exist between any two other countries, no matter how bad they hate each other.

All that is covered under one interest: keeping cross border terrorism from Pakistani side out. Anything else to do with Pakistan is quite trivial for India. No need to make it some sort of scale out conflict, which is a common mistake most Pak leaders as well as people do.