‘Stand Up to US or Have Future Generations Deride Us’ – ISI Chief

[ajpirzada]

good to see pasha offering himself for resignation....

no need to accept it but at least there is this realization within the ISI that they have committed an act of incompetence..

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I like the last part in particular...

“We know that you have lots of responsibilities. How about you give some of them back to us?” The light-hearted remark aroused smirks on both sides of parliament, and led to loud, desk-thumping approval.

He did just that didn't he, as did the deputy Air Chief - parliament needs to 'stand up to the US', 'parliament needs to make a decision on shooting down drones'.

What was Hashmi's, or parliament's, response to being 'given those responsibilities'?

 

[S.M.R]

ISI sought formal accord on ties with CIA: Pasha


ISLAMABAD, May 14: The Pakistan military recently urged the US authorities to finalise a formal agreement on the relationship between the Central Intelligence Agency and the InterServices Intelligence.
Lt-Gen Ahmad Shuja Pasha, the ISI chief, told the in camera joint sitting of the two houses of parliament on Friday that during a recent meeting with CIA chief Leon Panetta, he had stressed the need to formalise the relationship through an agreement.

“It is not possible to carry forward the cooperation without a formal agreement duly approved by parliament,” a lawmaker quoted the ISI director general as saying.

Gen Pasha said his agency had always cooperated with the CIA and its successes in the war against terrorism were made possible because of vital information passed on to it by the ISI.

He denied the ISI had concealed anything from the American agency. “In fact it is the other way round.” Citing an example of the CIA’s withholding of information, he said the ISI had provided complete information about Abu Ahmad Al Kuwaiti, the courier in the Osama saga, but when the CIA, acting on the lead, arrested one of his friends in Kuwait, it did not share the development with the ISI.

Al Kuwaiti was said to be the key to maintaining Osama Bin Laden’s secrecy and safety for almost 10 years as one of his most trusted couriers.

A Western news agency recently quoted a US official as saying that it was a phone call from Al Kuwaiti that led the US directly to the walled compound in Abbottabad where Osama eventually met his end.

Gen Pasha said Pakistan would have taken appropriate measures to kill or arrest Taliban leaders who entered Pakistan from the porous border with Afghanistan after the massive bombing of Tora Bora mountains had advance information been provided about the CIA operation.

He said CIA’s successes would not have been possible had the ISI withheld any lead.

Rejecting the allegation that Osama was brought to Abbottabad by the ISI, the ISI chief wondered: “Why would the ISI keep him at a place without escape route and proper security cover.” Gen Pasha pointed out that there were no security guards at the building where Osama bin Laden lived.

“The fear that we cannot live without America has taken away our self respect. Are we to live in humiliation out of the US fear forever,” he said amid applause and thumping of desks.

He said the US had carried out 247 drone attacks inside Pakistan’s territory since 2004, but added that no record was available about any agreement in this regard.

Source today's dawn.

 

[S.M.R]

format agreement?? US gonna say that get out from our country, we have already paid huge price for your country.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

no need to accept it but at least there is this realization within the ISI that they have committed an act of incompetence..

I still don't see how it was a major act of incompetence. Dozens of OBl's neighbors have been interviewed by almost every major international and local news organization, and none of them had any idea that OBL lived there. None of them reported anything suspicious about the place. The men who were known to live there did nothing to arouse any major suspicion. Even the US, according to Panetta, after all their electronic surveillance, human intelligence specifically targeting the compound, for months, was only 60% to 80% sure that OBL lived there. So how on earth can one expect an agency that wasn't even looking at that compound to realize that OBL was there?

Please keep in mind that the reason the CIA honed onto the compound was because the ISI provided them the cell number of the courier who would eventually lead the US to OBL. The CIA was better able to exploit that bit of intelligence because of other AQ figures that Pakistan had arrested or helped arrest, as well as its technical capabilities to monitor electronic communications.

This is far from the huge case of 'incompetence and/or collusion' that this issue is being made out to be.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

format agreement?? US gonna say that get out from our country, we have already paid huge price for your country.

If they refuse to enter into formal agreements, then perhaps parliament should tell them to 'get out of the country'.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

If they refuse to enter into formal agreements, then perhaps parliament should tell them to 'get out of the country'.

I am waiting for Muse, T-Faz and the others Army bashers to now hold their 'elected representatives' accountable for making a decision on shifting Pakistan's relationship with the US, as the military has clearly communicated to parliament that the onus is on parliament to make that shift.

 

[VCheng]

I am waiting for Muse, T-Faz and the others Army bashers to now hold their 'elected representatives' accountable for making a decision on shifting Pakistan's relationship with the US, as the military has clearly communicated to parliament that the onus is on parliament to make that shift.

The summary is this, both sides saying this to each other:

"We have f-ed up too badly; now you clean up the mess!"

 

[S.M.R]

I still don't see how it was a major act of incompetence. Dozens of OBl's neighbors have been interviewed by almost every major international and local news organization, and none of them had any idea that OBL lived there. None of them reported anything suspicious about the place. The men who were known to live there did nothing to arouse any major suspicion. Even the US, according to Panetta, after all their electronic surveillance, human intelligence specifically targeting the compound, for months, was only 60% to 80% sure that OBL lived there. So how on earth can one expect an agency that wasn't even looking at that compound to realize that OBL was there?

Please keep in mind that the reason the CIA honed onto the compound was because the ISI provided them the cell number of the courier who would eventually lead the US to OBL. The CIA was better able to exploit that bit of intelligence because of other AQ figures that Pakistan had arrested or helped arrest, as well as its technical capabilities to monitor electronic communications.

This is far from the huge case of 'incompetence and/or collusion' that this issue is being made out to be.

Very well said, I dont know why just people so easily declare ISI's incompetence due to the OBL's presence in the compound (apart from that there are no proofs yet whether OBL was there or not).

Just make a little comparison of CIA and ISI. ISI is much below in Capacity when compared with CIA, yet whatever US has achieved was due to ISI's blessings.

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

Does ISI chief think Pakistan can do a Vietnam now?

 

[pakdefender]

The summary is this, both sides saying this to each other:

"We have f-ed up too badly; now you clean up the mess!"

The popular narrative that the army has been intervening in politics that’s why politicians are such failures is a load of crap.
If bastards like nawaz had not played games and promoted Gen Musharaf , in line with his own petty world view , over Gen Ali Quli things would not have turned out the way they have.
When the Chief Justice was removed unlawfully the lawyers rallied you think when the COAS is being unlawfully removed the army will sit quietly?!?! [ and that too when the resignation of the previous chief was engineered ]
So long as the political landscape of Pakistan is a ‘jungle out there’ then be rest assured that the Army will be there to kick the jackals and hyenas whenever they cook up schemes.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

The summary is this, both sides saying this to each other:

"We have f-ed up too badly; now you clean up the mess!"

I have argued in one of the posts above why it wasn't by any means a 'major fk up' by the ISI and/or military.

The US acted towards Pakistan in a manner that was deceitful and aggressive, and made us of their superior technological capabilities to get away with it. The response to those actions has to be developed by parliament, as pointed out by the military.

Lets see the response from parliament then - this is exactly what every military basher wanted.

 

[unicorn]

^^^
The whole briefing of the Parliament is not disclosed in the media but no news come out regarding the evidences.No body in the Parliament asked that did the ISI confirmed that Osama was indeed present there.Did ISI confirmed that Osama is present for this long period obviously they have the statements of the people inside the compound but it is not enough.Did the americans give ISI the material evidence after the operation?Because I am getting the impression from foreign media since May 2nd that the Nato countries are also not shown the evidences uptill now.

 

[VCheng]

I have argued in one of the posts above why it wasn't by any means a 'major fk up' by the ISI and/or military.

The US acted towards Pakistan in a manner that was deceitful and aggressive, and made us of their superior technological capabilities to get away with it. The response to those actions has to be developed by parliament, as pointed out by the military.

Lets see the response from parliament then - this is exactly what every military basher wanted.

Regardless of how one analyzes the history of how we got to this point, the fact is that Pakistan is at an important crossroads.

It is not just the ISI in the nation's dock, it is ALL the power structures: politicians, military, judiciary and the civil services, that need to chart their future courses of action carefully, for the stakes are the highest that can be imagined.

Blaming "outside forces" for the present predicament will not work this time. Gen. Pasha is correct: This is a make or break choice on many levels.

Personally, I am deeply concerned that what needs to be done will not be done, and it will be case of too little, too late and too misdirected.

I hope I am wrong. I really do.

 

[Cheetah786]

I am waiting for Muse, T-Faz and the others Army bashers to now hold their 'elected representatives' accountable for making a decision on shifting Pakistan's relationship with the US, as the military has clearly communicated to parliament that the onus is on parliament to make that shift.

Who holds the actual power in Pakistan The Army or Politicians who gave the base to UAE the army or the politicians who made an agreement with USA the army or the politicians