@
Fattyacids
Dear fatty acids ,
Since you insist and since I am not afraid to state the facts.I will respond to you as long you wish.
All the while I am addressing you as Dear Fatty acid and see what words you are using ....Slimy , dodgy , liars ,shameless etc
I can dig up many of my questions you have deliberately left unanswered and things you have twisted... ..when I send Deng Xiaopong...I mean that era ....Yes I agree the relations improved after Yeltsin visit . But that does not take away fact that Russia did helped China in several ways .
China had been under arms embargo by west and it's Russia which fulfilled China's defense needs ..Most of China's military hardware came from Russia which Chinese scientists reveres engineered later . China was social pariah in International arena . Russia did a great favor by supplying all that military hardware to China .
also True is the fact Soviets helped in establishing Uranium enrichment plants in 1950's also send nuclear scientists and blue prints for primitive nuclear weapons ...
When I say China owes a lot to Russia ...it's not in monetary terms ....
For what Russia did can never be equated in terms of money ...
At one point you just refuse to accept that Russia did help , at other point you say it was peanuts ..at other point of time you say it was same as given to other communist countries ...
and another point you say that money given was to wage wars ....
I have already stated that Soviet Russia showed great magnanimity to give away its naval bases at port Arthur and Dalian ...despite stiff resistance from Stalin as part of Sino- soviet friendship treaty .... You did not say anything about that
I also told you during same period Sovuet Russia gave 300 million $ . Remember 300 million dollars in 1950 is equivalent to several trillion dollar today ( I was not going to say that but just since you insisted although I still say when I said you owe a lot to Russia it was not referred to monetary terms ) This is the 'price......not 'value .
This assistance came when millions and millions of Chinese were dying of starvation in China ....Can you put value to this assistance ... In indian culture if somebody gives you even drops of water when you are dying ...you are indebted to them forever ...
Remember china had no friend then....and during such critical period when PRC was born after long drawn civil war ...only country that helped you guys were China ...
and you insult that as peanuts ....You have been most ungrateful to forget a help provided by country in the most critical period of your history....ask your grand parents ....they might be able to reminisce .
It was Russian help due to which chin was able to undertake mass scale industrialization...
China was not able to make even simple machines ...all the sophisticated machinery , engines were send by Russia with their technicians ..to teach Chinese people ....
Sino-Soviet split happned in 1961. From 1945 till this period China required unprecedented help from soviets . As stated before Soviet Russia helped you guys establish ...uranium and plutonium processing plants also send their nuclear scientists ...gave blue prints ...
China was utterly poor ..had no expertise for this state of the art techs ...al of which were passed on by the Soviets to China ...
China conducted its first nuclear test in 1964 just 3 years after Split from Soviet ...Do you think Chinese developed nukes on its own....in just 4 years ..that too when million were dying of poverty and hunger. China had no money to feed itself....Without Soviet help it would not have been possible for the then third world country like China to develop nukes ...
It's well known truth US and Russia were only pioneers in technology ...subsequently all countries including China stole secrets and copied technology ....
Your PRC /ROC differentiation is absolute nonsense ...
are these two different countries ?
Your argument that Soviets helped PRC and not ROC is absolutely laughable ....Soviets helped PRC gain all crucial technology ...and when it changed to ROC did ROC give up that tech....Name and regime changed ....but country is same ...The fruits of industrialization and mechanization that you enjoy today belong to the trees whose seeds were sowed at PRC era with the help of Soviets ....
China was neither military or nuclear power ..yet because of Soviet Russia ....China got permanent seat at Security council ....
Immediately after soviet split - China attacked Vietnam the then Soviet ally which turned relations bad .
China had brief war with Russia ...You are asking me whether I know it or not ...
You don't read post fully ....I already told you I know it well because my Russian friend that I had made during Antarctica expedition had served in Sino- Russian war in 1969 in medical corps ...
well so many things changed after brief conflict in 1969 ...and you ask me naïve question as to how you can be grateful to your opponent ....
Well after collapse of USSR - Boris yeltsin visit thawd relations again ...in 1995 ( if I am correct ) border agreement was included ..Eversince then China and Russia has shared close relationships ....
after Tianmen square massacre west had imposed arms sanctions during this period again Russia was main arms supplier ...and all major technologies that china today flaunts were absorbed during this period .I am not belittling China's own efforts ...but China gained lot from Russian ready made hardware ....
China's space programme owes to Russia lot ....training of Chinese scientists and sharing of R-2 rocket technology was primer for China's Space programme ...from which also developed ballistic missile programme ....All initial Chinese rockets and missiles were totally based on R-2 rocket technology ....
Concurrent massive Chinese spy programme made further valuable contribution ....
China - didn't have to begin from scratch ...they got readymade Russian , technology , amchines , expertise , designs ready made during Sino -Soviet Friendship era that lasted from 1945-1961 . China was poor , illiterate , starving third world country during this period . Without Soviet help it was impossible for China to Test rockets , missiles and nukes in 1950s-60s era itself ....
Thus China totally owes credit for helping it in era of Nuclear , Space, Missile technology to Soviet Russia alone ....
In fact Russia carried Chinese Mars orbiter along with its Phobos Grunt mission ...
China does not have launch vehicle as of today to embark upon mars mission ...
Russia had been magnanimous to you to accord that privilege ...
This is enough to surmise that Russia has helped China immensely in its past and also in its present immensely ....
You will deny many of the facts mentioned above. Your countrymen like Biejingwalker maintained tacit silence because they are aware of these facts ....
I know you reaction.....you will say all this is utter lies ...
well blame it on CCP if they didn't tell you all these facts ....
I am open to answer all your questions if you have any
Even if now you continue to deny Russia's role in crafting destiny of your country ...
would say you are the most ungrateful person to deny the credit that you need to give your friendly neighbor Russia .
China owes a lot to Russia ! I standby my statement
22O soviet experts sent to China along with Liu Shaoqi under Kovaleve leadership on August 14 , 1950 .
With task of aiding in Industrialiasation
More than 600 developemental aid workers in China since 1948 .
March 1952: 332 advisers , 471 technical experts
In september 1953 Zou enlai asked for additional 172 experts to Molotov 655
Chinese wishlish to Soviets- rolling mills, steam turbines ,
Total vaue of Aid in 1949 – US 31.3 million $ of which 8.5million $ for rails and related equipmrnts
Aid in 1950- aircrafts and artillery pieces worth 26.5 million $ delivered on september 16
Rail equipment worth 6.3 millions delivered on November 5 .
Soviet Union and Communist China – 1945-1950: the Arduous road to Alliance Author Dieter Heinzig
The Soviet Union and Communist China, 1945-1950: The Arduous Road to the ... - Dieter Heinzig - Google Books
Qian Xuesen Cold war spy( father of China's missile and space program ) was deported from the United States to China, he helped launch China’s early rocket and satellite program, with Soviet help until 1960.
[Source: Kerry Brown The Guardian, November 1, 2009]
In October 1996, Chinese astronauts trainees began spaceflight training in Moscow.
The Shenzhou is modeled after the Russian Soyuz crafts but had many improvements added such as electricity-generating solar panels that allow it to stay in space for weeks at a time.
China opened its first missile and rocket research center in 1956. In the 1950s, Qian Xuesen, an alleged Cold war spy, was deported from the United States to China, where he helped launch China’s early rocket and satellite program, with Soviet help until 1960. China developed its first rocket—the Long March—in the 1960s
The Soviets provided this model and provided all the trappings of it, including the model of the Academy of Soviet Sciences. The Soviet scientific system separated research from universities and placed the prerogative on regional research institutes.
The Soviets helped build 141 Chinese state enterprises that consisted of chemical industry development, electrical development, among many others. (see Wu and Sheeks, 187
With the Communist Revolution in 1949, the conduit of science and technology shifted to the Soviet Union, who was supposedly united with China by a common commitment to Marxist-Leninist ideology
During the early stages of Sino-Soviet cooperation the Chinese gleaned the Soviet system of education; received more than 45,000 research journals and titles from the Soviet Academy of Sciences; hosted thousands of Soviet advisers and professors who ‘advised’ the Chinese; and sent hundreds of students each year to the U.S.S.R to receive formal scientific training and education. Wu and Sheeks add to this by discussing the large heavy industrial investment the Soviets had in China as well. The Soviets promised to re-build (or build) 141 Chinese state enterprises that consisted of chemical industry development, electrical development, among many others. (see Wu and Sheeks, 187) The Soviets had also sent more than 10,000 sets of specifications to China by 1960. (Wu and Sheeks, 202)
