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South China Sea Forum

Vietnam used to be a country of braves that pride itself of victories over superpowers. Nowadays, they are just hiding behind US butt like a bunch of cowards. Look that they have been posting! It is a none stop stream of US will do this, or US will do that to you. Pathetic!
 
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Vietnam used to be a country of braves that pride itself of victories over superpowers. Nowadays, they are just hiding behind US butt like a bunch of cowards. Look that they have been posting! It is a none stop stream of US will do this, or US will do that to you. Pathetic!

They're hopeless against China so they need to do so to comfort themselves.:lol:.
 
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China is hitting back...

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US should reflect on its own militarization in the South China Sea
(Agencies) Updated: 2016-02-20 19:15

BEIJING - China's alleged deployment of a missile system on its Yongxing Island in the South China Sea has been met with frantic overreaction from the United States, which has accused China of "militarizing" the region.

"We see no indication that [...] this militarization effort, has stopped. And it's doing nothing [...] to make the situation there more stable and more secure," US State Department spokesperson John Kirby said Thursday as commercial satellite imagery reportedly indicated the "very recent" placement of missiles on Yongxing Island.

It is no secret that the island, home to the municipal government of China's southernmost city of Sansha, has seen deployment of defence measures for decades. In fact, it is well within China's sovereignty rights, as granted by international law, and has no relation to any sort of regional "militarization."

China has repeatedly made it clear that it has no intention to militarize the region. Its island construction is mainly for maintenance purposes, improving the living conditions for stationed personnel and facilitating the movement of public goods in the region.

Then why is the US stirring up this hype? Previous self-defence moves on Yongxing Island seemed to raise little US interest, still less an uproar such as has been seen in recent days.

The change itself looks deliberate and questionable. Criticizing China, regardless of the circumstances, seems to be the tool that the US is using to move more of its own military weight to the region. It is the US, rather than China, who is posing the most significant risk of militarization.

The US frequently sends military vessels or planes to waters in the South China Sea to conduct reconnaissance against China. A US missile destroyer and strategic bombers intruded waters and airspace adjacent to China's Nansha Islands. Not to mention the joint drills between the USand its allies.

Such muscle-flexing has created heightened tension on the sea, enticing US allies to take more provocative measures to press their illegitimate territorial claims.

The US, with a global network of military bases, has also reopened its bases in the Philippines, a move widely interpreted as stirring up tension in the region.

The US has taken double standards on the militarization in the South China Sea. It automatically links Chinese defence facility deployment to militarization while selectively dodging the Philippines and Vietnam that have militarized the Chinese islands they occupy or the US joint drills and patrols.

When asked if sending the large US naval ships and military planes to the region is militarization at a recent press briefing, State Department spokesperson Mark Toner insisted the practice was "basically freedom of navigation."

The US, the self-styled guardian of freedom of navigation, rationalizes its navy and air force patrols for such purposes and says it will continue to do so. However, "freedom of navigation does not give one country's military aircraft and ships free access to another country's territorial waters and airspace," as a Chinese foreign ministry spokesperson put it.

Instead of questioning China about "militarizing" the region, the US should reflect on its own behavior. Stopping patrols, drills and reconnaissance will be the right way for it to serve its own interests and others.

China and other claimants of the South China Sea have the capacity to work out their disputes through dialogue and negotiation. As a non-claimant, the US should make good on its repeated commitment that it does not take a position on competing territorial claims.
 
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That's wrong. The U-shaped line is not the claimed territorial waters. Do not mischaracterize out of ignorance or intention.

What is claimed is 200NM EEZ for the four island groups in the SCS. When the 200NM and CS overlaps with other nations' waters (such as the Philippines), we can sit down and negotiate delimitation -- which needs to be done bilaterally as ITLOS has no jurisdiction over it, just like the question of sovereignty.

So, first, sovereignty, second, delimitation, third, activities in territorial waters.

China has historic rights over all the sea features within the U-shaped line.

You see the great joke of ADIZ is US think that by having such Idea, it can control the space and dictate the rule on the sky but they're just shooting themselves on the foot, now China not only has ADIZ is eastern sea but will also be in SCS.:lol:

US gives the perfect excuse; their actions ae inconclusive but their implications are tangible in the form of new systems and further development work in the SCS.

I guess China and the US conspire against Vietnam.
 
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US should reflect on its own militarization in the South China Sea
(Agencies) Updated: 2016-02-20 19:15

BEIJING - China's alleged deployment of a missile system on its Yongxing Island in the South China Sea has been met with frantic overreaction from the United States, which has accused China of "militarizing" the region.

"We see no indication that [...] this militarization effort, has stopped. And it's doing nothing [...] to make the situation there more stable and more secure," US State Department spokesperson John Kirby said Thursday as commercial satellite imagery reportedly indicated the "very recent" placement of missiles on Yongxing Island.

It is no secret that the island, home to the municipal government of China's southernmost city of Sansha, has seen deployment of defence measures for decades. In fact, it is well within China's sovereignty rights, as granted by international law, and has no relation to any sort of regional "militarization."

China has repeatedly made it clear that it has no intention to militarize the region. Its island construction is mainly for maintenance purposes, improving the living conditions for stationed personnel and facilitating the movement of public goods in the region.

Then why is the US stirring up this hype? Previous self-defence moves on Yongxing Island seemed to raise little US interest, still less an uproar such as has been seen in recent days.

The change itself looks deliberate and questionable. Criticizing China, regardless of the circumstances, seems to be the tool that the US is using to move more of its own military weight to the region. It is the US, rather than China, who is posing the most significant risk of militarization.

The US frequently sends military vessels or planes to waters in the South China Sea to conduct reconnaissance against China. A US missile destroyer and strategic bombers intruded waters and airspace adjacent to China's Nansha Islands. Not to mention the joint drills between the USand its allies.

Such muscle-flexing has created heightened tension on the sea, enticing US allies to take more provocative measures to press their illegitimate territorial claims.

The US, with a global network of military bases, has also reopened its bases in the Philippines, a move widely interpreted as stirring up tension in the region.

The US has taken double standards on the militarization in the South China Sea. It automatically links Chinese defence facility deployment to militarization while selectively dodging the Philippines and Vietnam that have militarized the Chinese islands they occupy or the US joint drills and patrols.

When asked if sending the large US naval ships and military planes to the region is militarization at a recent press briefing, State Department spokesperson Mark Toner insisted the practice was "basically freedom of navigation."

The US, the self-styled guardian of freedom of navigation, rationalizes its navy and air force patrols for such purposes and says it will continue to do so. However, "freedom of navigation does not give one country's military aircraft and ships free access to another country's territorial waters and airspace," as a Chinese foreign ministry spokesperson put it.

Instead of questioning China about "militarizing" the region, the US should reflect on its own behavior. Stopping patrols, drills and reconnaissance will be the right way for it to serve its own interests and others.

China and other claimants of the South China Sea have the capacity to work out their disputes through dialogue and negotiation. As a non-claimant, the US should make good on its repeated commitment that it does not take a position on competing territorial claims.
 
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Washington is playing a dangerous game of 'chicken' with the Chinese and Russians, who are attempting to defend themselves from the Washington Consensus, which reduces subject populations to that of serfs.


While the Russians, following the collapse of the Soviet Union, seemed willing to accept a sort of vassal statehood, it is increasingly today clear that such an assignation is intolerable. Thus, Vladimir Putin enjoys immense popularity as he stands up to the pro-Washington forces inside and outside of the US.

Meanwhile, the Chinese remember all too well the sting of British colonialism: opium addiction and the lasting effects of British presumptions of superiority. The Chinese place in the Washington Consensus has been staked out as, in the case of Russia, supplier of inputs to feed the hungry capitalism of the US and the Western European former colonial masters.

Directed by the United States, and backed up by its military, the real beneficiaries of the Washington Consensus were never intended to be the people of China, who were just viewed as a one billion plus, voracious, consumption-hungry machine for Western goods.

But the Chinese had another idea, and instead of becoming an engine of growth for Western economies, international political economists are now discussing the “China Model” or the “Beijing Consensus.” Chinese Communist Party scholars now tout China as an alternative development model for the former colonized world. This is not what Washington had in mind with its so-called “China Opening” in 1972.

Thus, the US has embarked upon a strategy of containing the rise of Russia and China, rolling back any gains made by states friendly with them and willing to go against the neoliberal grain, and doing this by alternative means without overt or “hot” war. The US military establishment calls this “asymmetric” warfare.

The Obama Administration, while pronouncing nostrums of civility and democracy, terms this multi-pronged attack on the right of self-determination of other countries, “Leading From Behind,” a term borrowed from Nelson Mandela. This is a strategy akin to having a war in which the leading belligerent is “in the closet,” out of view. Both the Russians and the Chinese know that Washington has declared war on them. So now, what does this mean for Asians’ engagement with each other and Washington’s engagement in Asia?

The particular line of contention now revolves around the geostrategically important sea lanes along which move oil from West Asia and North Africa to Japan and goods mostly produced in China yet consumed in every corner of the world. Because the Western media have touted the endangerment of global commerce caused by Chinese interference with these sea lanes, blogger Peter Lee decided to take a closer look. What he found is that even Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe reportedly told the Diet (the Japanese Parliament) that “there are alternative routes” for the Strait of Malacca, “unlike Hormuz.”

He concluded that we who are forced to rely on Western media have been fed a bunch of propaganda and, in reality, the South China Sea and the Strait of Malacca are not a critical sea lane for US allies Japan and South Korea and offers the real-time map of maritime activity to prove it. So, with the veneer of legitimacy completely torn away from US justifications for its actions in the region, what exactly are China and the US doing in the South China Sea?

Sea Power and The New Silk Road
China has proposed reviving The Silk Road that once connected Asians and Europeans. It calls this effort the New Silk Road and has the financial power to encourage countries along the route to participate in the regional opportunities brought about by extensive land and sea linkages.

The New Silk Road envisions a peaceful integration of the region fostering development of the Continent as a whole. A development that could be explained 'of Asia by Asians for Asians.' Yet because of its military presence in the form of bases from West Asia to the archipelago countries in the East, the US military is present, blocking any Asian-led effort at integration and already enforcing US policies of containment, rollback, and “leading from behind.”

This US military presence can be found in Syria and Turkey in the West, the Philippines in the East, and Afghanistan and Pakistan in between. And one by one, the US is employing a direct military conquest strategy, as well as the old tried and true divide-and-rule strategy. Resistance to US hegemony in the Philippines had resulted in the US military being kicked out of the country, but now it is set to return. The US scored a “two-fer” when it was able to secure its return to the Philippines while hawking the dangers of Chinese Imperialism.

The Japanese people have consistently voted in favor of local candidates who promise to stand up to the US and demand removal of American bases there, only to be betrayed by the central government in Tokyo. At least fifteen US bases in South Korea allow the imperial intruder to keep an eye on China and China-friendly North Korea from a close distance. It appears that Malaysia may be a target of Washington’s asymmetric warfare: one of its commercial airliners was shot down over Ukraine; another just disappeared without a trace—to this day. Now, Malaysia is in the midst of extreme political turmoil after $671 million mysteriously appeared in Prime Minister Razak’s personal bank account and he was unable to convincingly explain to the public how it got there.

But Malaysia shares with Indonesia (site of the historic Bandung Conference) the Strait of Malacca which is the gateway to the Bay of Bengal (Myanmar, Bangladesh, and India) from the South China Sea. Curiously, Vietnam, still feeling the effects of the Vietnam War, just asked Washington for a greater role in countering China’s actions in the South China Sea. Of China, Taiwan, Vietnam, the Philippines, and Malaysia, that all have claims on some of the Spratley Islands, China is the only country that had not constructed an airfield or done reclamation work on its claimed islands, according to the Center for Strategic and International Studies.

Once China began its reclamation and construction work is when the “problems” in the South China Sea began.

US Provocations
The United States has sent a steady stream of warships into the area claiming its right to navigate on the high seas. In December 2015, the US claimed that China’s militarism in the area had eroded navigational safety in the South China Sea. In its rejoinder, China warned the US not to be “provocative.” Last month, the US began air and sea“patrols” in the South China Sea sending one of its warships within twelve nautical miles of one of China’s reclaimed islands. This month, the war of words escalated to limited kinetic action as flares were fired by a refueling US KC-130 Hercules while on air patrol. The US insists that it will continue its military patrols over the South China Sea as is consistent with international law.

The bottom line is that US actions indicate that the US gives not one whit about international law. It breaks international law everyday that it tortures, kills, bombs and maims the innocent. It threatens with asymmetric warfare any country that dares to challenge its ability to impose a neoliberal agenda on foreign citizens.

The case of Bolivarian Venezuela is a good example—both during Hugo Chavez’s tenure and today, with President Maduro. The list of countries being subjected to such treatment by the US is growing, something I previously thought was not possible. I wrote earlier that the US needs to forget its pivot to Asia and concentrate on improving the well being of its citizens, most of whom are suffering. While China focuses on lifting its citizens out of poverty, the US leadership seems bent on plunging more Americans into poverty as the military-industrial-national-security state plans to spend one trillion dollars on war and domestic policing. And no presidential candidates are willing to even talk about this travesty now that Senator Rand Paul has dropped out of the race. And you can count on the US media to keep the propaganda going. Sadly, somewhere in Washington, D.C. a tiny group of insiders is itching for a war with China and Russia. Let it be remembered that I voted against every war funding bill and the Pentagon budget while I was in Congress. Usually there were only a few, like Ron Paul, who joined me in those votes.

I still believe it is sinful for the US to spend so much on war, death, and destruction, especially while babies in the US go to bed hungry every night and people freeze in their homes for lack of heat or on the street for lack of shelter.

What is America doing in the South China Sea? — RT Op-Edge
 
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If USA dont move from one conflict to another , How will they justify their huge defence budgets, how will USA power projection survive if the rest of the world becomes peaceful and prosperous, how will USA shape their foreign policy if they cant show a bogeman to their nation.USA foreign policy is based on kill/destroy any competition

As i have said before Islamic terrorism/jihad is in between stage till USA finds its next target after the communists and was created to fill the gap
 
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lol isn't that enough? :lol:

Not really, no. Its only obvious American airlines would do so, they have no skin in this. This doesn't exactly add to claims of sovereignty over the area as an ADIZ does not denote sovereignty over an area. If the US military (along with other militaries) ignore China's ADIZ and China cannot send anything to intercept then its ADIZ loses credibility.


Given this concerns the US specifically ,could you source where the Chinese military has ignored an American ADIZ? Sounds like a good way to get intercepted, and that would make headlines which I haven't seen.
 
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That's wrong. The U-shaped line is not the claimed territorial waters. Do not mischaracterize out of ignorance or intention.

What is claimed is 200NM EEZ for the four island groups in the SCS. When the 200NM and CS overlaps with other nations' waters (such as the Philippines), we can sit down and negotiate delimitation -- which needs to be done bilaterally as ITLOS has no jurisdiction over it, just like the question of sovereignty.

So, first, sovereignty, second, delimitation, third, activities in territorial waters.

China has historic rights over all the sea features within the U-shaped line.

Nine dashed claim is fabricated by KMT in 1948. China CPC has copied this idea from KMT. Vietnam has controlled Islands from long time ago in the past, without troubles with China.
 
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South China Sea dispute: US military will continue operations in region
Responding to reports of China’s deployment of missile launchers on the island, the US said it would continue to operate anywhere that international law allows

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mages taken by the private company ImageSat International appear to show that two batteries of eight missile launchers and a radar system were deployed to Woody Island in the South China Sea in the past week. Photograph: STR/AFP/Getty Images

The US military will continue to “fly, sail and operate” anywhere that international law allows, Barack Obama’s spokesman said on Wednesday, responding to reports of China’s deployment of surface-to-air missile launchers on a disputed island in the South China Sea.

Beijing’s provocative move threatens to heighten tensions with the US and its regional allies in a critical shipping route. Images taken by the private company ImageSat International appear to show that two batteries of eight missile launchers and a radar system were deployed to Woody Island in the past week.

White House press secretary Josh Earnest said he has seen the reports and some of the commercial images but did not provide independent verification. Despite fears of military escalation, he made clear that the US would continue to make its presence felt in the region.

“We have maintained that this is something that should be resolved peacefully among the claimants,” Earnest told reporters on Wednesday. “At the same time, the United States military has undertaken operations to indicate our view, and make clear in pretty stark terms our view, that we intend to continue to fly, sail and operate anywhere that international law allows.”

A patrol by a US navy destroyer came within 12 nautical miles of Triton Island in the Paracels last month, earning Chinese condemnation. America has also conducted sea and air patrols near artificial islands built by China in the Spratly islands chain, including by two B-52 strategic bombers in November.

Earnest welcomed this week’s Association of Southeastern Asian Nations (Asean) summit hosted by Obama in California, where members signed an agreement to work for peace and stability and avoid militarisation of the sea. They had made a “direct commitment”, he said, to clarify territorial maritime claims in accordance with international law and peacefully resolve disputes.

The US does not assert ownership of any territories in the South China Sea but has warned that Chinese aggression could impair global trade. Earnest added: “The US interest is not in particular claims on any of the land features but rather in the continued free flow of commerce in this region of the world. That has significant consequences for the global economy and significant consequences for the US economy.”

sked if China’s actions flew in the face of such an agreement, the press secretary noted that China had not signed it. “I think this is an indication, though, that the 10 or so countries in southeast Asia who also have claims in that region of the world are committed to the approach that we have advocated, which is the peaceful resolution of these disputes in a way that doesn’t ramp up the military presence or military capabilities that are located in these disputed territories.”

China claims most of the South China Sea, through which more than $5tn in global trade passes every year, and has been building runways and other infrastructure on artificial islands to strengthen its claims. Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei, the Philippines and Taiwan have rival claims.

Taiwan’s defence ministry has said the missile batteries were set up on Woody Island in the Paracels chain, which has been under Chinese control for decades but is also claimed by Taiwan and Vietnam.

Earlier on Wednesday, John Kerry, the US secretary of state, called for a diplomatic resolution. “There is every evidence every day that there has been an increase of militarisation of one kind or another,” he said. “It’s of serious concern. We’ve had these conversations with the Chinese, and I’m confident that over the next days we will have further, very serious conversation on this.”

The Chinese Defense Ministry told Reuters that the latest reports about missile deployment were nothing but “hype”.

Foreign minister Wang Yi told reporters the “limited and necessary self-defence facilities” China had on islands and reefs where it has personnel stationed was “consistent with the right to self-protection that China is entitled to under international law”.

South China Sea dispute: US military will continue operations in region | World news | The Guardian
 
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Just a statement of the obvious, they are ignoring China's ADIZ by Korea as well. Airlines will still follow it.

Yeah, just like we are ignoring Japan's ADIZ and Russia is ignoring US ADIZ right?

If we announce ADIZ in SCS, it will not be targeting US, US will do what it always does, but not US is not a claimant party in SCS, and does not take side in the dispute, so we could care less about what Harris thinks.
 
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spanked?? who's the one that cries every time a patrol of ships or plane to fly over your reclaimed islands.

:coffee:

everyone should just ignore China.


or we'll just set off a nuke underwater creating a mini-tsunami to wash your island away :D

we should set off a few in SCS to give Cambodia and Laos a longer coast line :rofl:
 
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