South China Sea Forum

[ahojunk]

Some pictures of North Island,

Nice little island in Dec 2015.

Jan 9, 2016 - reclamation is starting.

07-Feb-2016. Lots of progress in just one month. China just doesn't muck around. It has a plan and is now executing the plan.

 

[zheng2]

oh my god where's your evidence you people claim stuff which does not belong to your country your country is trying to catch up to the other superpowers which you're not in even in the same league as your country if you must know your only regional power and not as experience and strong as the others like Japan, Korea, or India. So make your nonsense claims to the rest of the Planet it's simply a big nation trying to take from its smaller less powerful neighbours and annoying the rest of the people in the neighbourhood

the evidence is on the UN website and archives,where is your evidence claimming those seas belong to you.
we even do not need evidence to rule those islands coz we are powerful.
you pathetic thieves even do not understand your country is a sacrifice to balance the strange of the great power competion.

 

[TaiShang]

It shows our great restraint in the past.

Which won't be the case anymore.

You know what is my Indonesian friend's favorite quote he uses at every social media account? "The nice guy finishes the last."

 

[Aepsilons]

"The nice guy finishes the last."

hahahaha! kinda goes with, " the good die young, the bad die old?"

 

[Aepsilons]

yes, I wonder of chinese humour, asking myself why chinese posters here don´t go to circus, earning extra money, as clowns. they act as if they are the only one who possess the truth. great restraint, peaceful acts...and other empty phrases.

bro, there is no need for that, we all here are able to differentiate joking aside and serious demeanor. also i don't think its always productive to maintain a cross-odds position with our chinese patriot colleagues here, it is unhealthy , even, to always keep the same view. we must open our eyes to the broader picture, which am sure our chinese brothers do too. given at times in the burst of emotions people tend to say regretful things, but in the end, we are asian patriots who yearn to establish a place for our respective countries in the global order --- and one that is integrated with our region. i used to hold a heavy security focused position in the past, --- that has changed over time. in the end japan , nor vietnam cannot survive or operate in a glass box , and continue to ignore our great partner, which is china. it is simple, really.

let the truth set you free, viet. let the truth set you free.

and by the way don't be worried about being questioned as being "unpatriotic" enough. at least open yourself to discourse --- you've been one of the very exceptional vietnamese members here who can think outside the proverbial box, actually. actually both you and @xesy.

they act as if they are the only one who possess the truth. great restraint, peaceful acts...and other empty phrases.

of course not, our chinese friends are as emphatic and patriotic as you and i, my friend. i suppose what i have learned is that we have to open ourselves to communication and remove barriers to discourse; and one barrier is usually our innate nationalism , which can be stifling if we do not watch it. in the past i used to speak with unhealthy ultra-nationalism -- which tended to dissuade discourse rather than encourage it. i suppose interacting with a very varied and wide background of people here, different ideologies, allowed me to learn more about myself and others. i hope you can -- do the same my friend.

Bruce Lee said it best, "Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless - like water. Now you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup, you put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, you put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.”

 

[BuddhaPalm]

Now USA finally acknowledges how badly it has been spanked by China.

South China Sea: Beijing is winning, but here's how to retake the initiative

 

[Penguin]

Which won't be the case anymore.

You know what is my Indonesian friend's favorite quote he uses at every social media account? "The nice guy finishes the last."

Oh, so China is a man courting a woman? Because that's what the quote refers to.

Should you interprete wider, it refers to self centered people will step on who ever they need to and do what ever it takes no matter who thy hurt to "get to the top" or get what they want. In short, 'might makes right' (and civilization out the window). If that's the world you choose to make, well, good luck.

 

[F-22Raptor]

A Chinese Air Defense Identification Zone (ADIZ) over the South China Sea would ratchet up regional tensions and be ignored by U.S. forces, said the head of the U.S. military forces in the Pacific during a press conference at the Pentagon on Thursday.

Adm. Harry Harris, commander of U.S. Pacific Command, is concerned Beijing would declare an ADIZ over its disputed holdings like it did over the East China Sea in 2013.

“I’m concerned, in the sense that I would find that destabilizing and provocative,” he said.
“We would ignore it, just like we’ve ignored the ADIZ that they’ve put in place in the East China Sea… Secretary [of State] Kerry asked China to not declare an ADIZ [over the South China Sea].”

In the last several weeks, new satellite imagery has revealed new Chinese military kit on its holdings in the Paracel Islands near Vietnam and artificial islands in the Spratlys close to the Philippines.

“I’m of the opinion they’re militarizing the South China Sea,” Harris said.
“They have reclaimed almost 3,000 acres of military bases in the South China Sea.”

For example HQ-9 anti-air warfare missiles were deployed on Woody Island in the Paracels earlier this month and the Chinese Shenyang J-11 were spotted in the region as recently as this week according to press reports.

But a persistent concern behind all of the reclamation, militarization and the rhetoric from Beijing is the possibility of the declaration of a Chinese ADIZ over the South China Sea.

An ADIZ – which are also used by the U.S. – require aircraft in the zone to declare its intentions and identify itself to a national aviation authority.

“International law does not prohibit nations from establishing air defense identification zones (ADIZ) in the international airspace adjacent to their territorial airspace,” the U.S. Navy’s Commander’s Handbook on the law of Naval Operations reads. “The legal basis for ADIZ regulations is the right of a nation to establish reasonable conditions of entry into its territory. Accordingly, an aircraft approaching national airspace can be required to identify itself while in international airspace as a condition of entry approval.”

However, conflicts over territory in the South China Sea where several countries claim the same territory make the declaration of a China ADIZ problematic for regional neighbors.

An ADIZ could pair with expansive territorial claims China has made in the South China Sea to give Beijing more influence in the region that could bleed over to more control of the economic flow through the region.

“When they put their advanced missile systems on the Paracels, and when they build three 10,000 foot runways in the Spratlys on the basis that they’ve reclaimed — when they do all of that, they’re changing the operational landscape in the South China Sea,” Harris said.
“So, that is what’s changed. The United States and our patrols — military patrols, air and maritime in the South China Sea haven’t really changed. We have a consistent presence in the Western Pacific, and we have had that for decades.”

But was is different is how much influence China has over the region, “short of war they can rise to the level of having tactical control of the water ways of the South China Sea.”

China quickly responded on Friday to Harris’ statements.

“We have noticed that this official is busy making comments on the South China Sea — sometimes in the U.S. Congress, and sometimes in the Defense Department — which has given us the general impression that he intends to smear China’s legitimate and reasonable actions in the South China Sea and sowing discord,” Ministry of Foreign Affairs spokesman Hong Lei said on Friday.
“He is finding an excuse for U.S. maritime hegemony and muscle-flexing on the sea.”

Earlier this month, China has accused two recent U.S. surface Freedom of Navigation operations (FON ops) in the South China Sea as provocative actions.
“As the world’s largest trade in goods nation and the largest South China Sea littoral state, China cares more about navigation safety and freedom in the South China Sea than any other country,” said ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying earlier this week.
“The United States talks about freedom of navigation, but I fear in its heart what it’s thinking about is absolute maritime hegemony.”
Foreign Affairs Minister Wang Yi echoed comments, saying, “the demilitarization needs efforts of all parties, not only China, but also the United States and ASEAN countries.”
While Chinese officials comments are rhetorically charged, Hong did say while China reserves the right to declare an ADIZ over the South China Sea, the situation in the region was stable enough not to do so.

During his briefing in the Pentagon, Harris said there’s a chance to give China the benefit of the doubt.

“Let’s give China a chance here and see if they’ll opt for a more stabilizing less tense situation or whether they’ll opt to be a provocative and destabilizing influence,” Harris said.

PACOM Harris: U.S. Would Ignore A ‘Destabilizing’ Chinese South China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone - USNI News

 

[21stCentury]

The only ones destabilizing South China Sea is the foreign occupying force aka United States. The faster you recognize China's sphere of influence in South China Sea the sooner there will be peace.

 

[Zero_wing]

the evidence is on the UN website and archives,where is your evidence claimming those seas belong to you.
we even do not need evidence to rule those islands coz we are powerful.
you pathetic thieves even do not understand your country is a sacrifice to balance the strange of the great power competion.

Oh my really now since when did china became archipelagic state? again china as no real claim to the area obviously you did not read any post you just repeat the old commie policy of your imperialist country the only thefts here is you guys for claim a whole damn sea as your own and stealing everything from my country and everyone else well since you guys made a lots of enemies lets see how you people fair when people will finally get sick and tired of your arrogance or even better after the ruling comes out lets see how much and china risk as a international devenant

 

[Dungeness]

We started out here with a discussion concerning HQ-9 onto the Paracels. We then looked at the different parts of that area, notable Woody Island. Discussion is now shifting to Spratleys and the whole issue of reclamation. The issue is not whether or not one can reclaim land or build structures. The issue is what you can derive from them e.g. rights e.g. where you can station weapons. A state can do so on its sovereign territory. But, what if sovereignty is disputed? UNLOCS links this sovereignty issue with islands. It has a clear definition of what are and what are not islands. Likewise, structures and articially formed land. From the latter do you cannot derive territorial waters or EEZ etc. Putting a 100-200km SAM on naturally formed Woody Island defeats the purpose of self defence, and is unproportional, because e.g. MANPADS or a 10-15km point defence SAM can provide air defence for Woody Island. The choice for the much londer range HQ-9 is clearly motivated by construction of articifial land about 68 km away from Woody Island. But that is not where China is sovereign.

Sorry, I am confused with what you want to say:

Are you now saying yes, China has legitimate right to put SAM on "naturally formed Woody Island", but instead of HQ-9, they should use MANPADS as it is more "proportional" to the size of the island?

And if the sovereignty is in dispute, a state should not have any defense on the land in question?

You have been trying hard to prove that "artificial islands are not islands", but no Chinese member here are arguing about 200 miles EEZ for those reefs, so it seems you complete miss the point.

 

[dichoi]

nonsense,those seas were belong to china in the winner meetings which the agreement was signed.
there were no vietnam as a country at that time.
and the 交趾 means a city in the han dynasty belong to chinese han.
jiaozhi ocean is wrong,it is jiaozhiwan means a gulf around jiaozhi city.
and also when jiaozhi is found there were no vietnam as a country too.
we give you people a name,give you language and help you against america,and you steal our islands in return
this is called shameless.

Han Chinese invaded in to Vietnam, we kicked you back to China. The story is finished.

交趾 is written in Hanzi, imitated the sound speaking from old Vietnamese language, " kẻ chợ" (Kinh people), "Ke" is written as 交, "cho" is written as 趾. The map from Ming Dynasty of China, it stated clearly where is 交趾界 (Vietnam border) and where is 交趾洋 (Vietnamese Ocean). Study more, kid.

Chinese have to stop lying about history. In Francisco Conference 1951 after WW II, with representative of delegate from State Vietnam under leading of Bao Dai Emperor Vietnam's, Claim of China in East Sea of Vietnam is rejected by voting.

Islands belong to Vietnam from long time ago in the past. China has just stolen our Island from 1956 (by Taiwan), 1974 and 1988 recently (by mainland China) with force.

 

[Penguin]

Sorry, I am confused with what you want to say:

Are you now saying yes, China has legitimate right to put SAM on "naturally formed Woody Island", but instead of HQ-9, they should use MANPADS as it is more "proportional" to the size of the island?

And if the sovereignty is in dispute, a state should not have any defense on the land in question?

You have been trying hard to prove that "artificial islands are not islands", but no Chinese member here are arguing about 200 miles EEZ for those reefs, so it seems you complete miss the point.

Woody Island is naturally formed. It has been and is disputed territory however. So, no, you got that wrong.
But lets'suppose - for the sake of argument - that it wasn't disputed, then the choice of weapon system to put there is out of proportion to any perceived threat ( and likely related to 'terraforming' 68km down the road).

The SAM range has no relation to the size of the location. Rather, again assuming for the sake of argument China has sovereignty over Woody Island, then that what it would have a right to defend doesn't extend offshore beyond 12nmi, as far as missiles are concerned.

Of course, the whole point with Woody Island is that Chinese sovereignty (or Vietnamese or Taiwanese, for that matter) is disputed, and therefore the whole issue of 'self defence' (against what, exactly? and why, out to where?) is BOGUS.

 

[dichoi]

.Defence White Paper: Australia joins Asia's arms race with spending on weaponry and military forces to reach $195b - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Defence White Paper: Australia joins Asia's arms race with spending on weaponry and military forces to reach $195b
By national affairs correspondent Greg Jennett, staff
Updated Thu at 1:08pm

Australia will embark on a decade-long surge in weaponry and military forces to defend its land, sea, skies and space from Asia's rapidly growing military forces.

The 2016 Defence White Paper maps a course towards a total of $195 billion in defence capability or equipment by 2020-21, together with a larger military force of 62,400 personnel, the largest in a quarter of a century.

Joining an Asian-region mini arms race, the White Paper promises 12 submarines to be built at a cost of more than $50 billion between 2018-2057.

However, maintenance costs will push that $50 billion budget much higher.

Navy will scoop a quarter of all new spending on capability, with nine new anti-submarine warfare frigates and 12 offshore patrol vessels.

The RAAF will build up two fleets of drones while also bringing its eventual fleet of 75 Joint Strike Fighters online.

The Army will claim 18 per cent of all extra spending on equipment, buying armed drones, new protected vehicles to transport troops, helicopters for special forces and a long-range rocket system.

Underscoring a sense of urgency to the renewal of Australia's defence power, the Government is aiming to build spending up to 2 per cent of GDP by 2020/21 — earlier than previously promised — representing an overall increase of $29.9 billion.

Defence officials have told the ABC the White Paper reflects Australia's "growing discomfort" with China's military activity.

 

[dichoi]

Paracel is Island of Vietnam from long time ago in the past.

Chinese stolen Island Paracel of Vietnam with force in 1974. Vietnamese civilians were captured by Chinese aggressors there.