South China Sea Forum

[Battle of Bach Dang River]

Yes, a country with over 100 million people as PH that is not called an "ant", although smaller than China "giant cake"...

 

[Luftwaffe]

You need more efforts and drastic measures than what your government already had done in previous days and years if you want to face China and other contestants in SCS races of claims. You must noted what the Malaysian doing to your government when they facing Sulu Sultanate problems in their countries, "They ignores your defence Forces capabilities!!".

I will put it straighfordwardly, even with economic hardship and poverty ridden problems Ethiopia had a more decent Armed Forces than you peoples. Honestly your government is more corrupt and bureaucratic than what we have here. Decisions is coming too late and even without a good result afterthat. What i can see is even your government cannot complete the purchasing of 21 units second hand Huey's in the same frame times Indonesian needed to producing more than 24 new Bell 412 EP. Philliphine with more than 280 billions US dollar GDP and more than 90 millions populations will be proper to have decent eQuipment for your armed forces like the Vietnam or Algeria did have.

I've been telling them Philippines Government is the most corrupt and that reason they are corrupt is US has made them corrupt and takes its share out of it. The Armed Forces need restructuring ground up the so called Ally US has sold trash to Philippines and keep offering them 1960's equipment, I Think Philippines has all the rights to modernization their Armed Forces.

In a country where basic grocery is expensive I don't know how people manage to live there should be a revolution to over throw such corrupt government but seems unlikely due to US meddling.

 

[Luftwaffe]

An ant doing its level best to shake a giant tree？

Hi, I'm in Chinese Block but this sort of proudness plunges Nations. You might have disputes with Philippines but they are Nation and humans that should be respected...every man and woman works to survive people may call them whatever they have every right to live and survive abusing them would interpret someone's low esteem no pun intended my friend.

 

[Wholegrain]

Dont you know "ants" as Britain, Portugal, Japan... divided the "giant cake" China and captured HK, Macau... until recently?

another Viet with no knowledge of history.

China DEFEATED Portugal at Tamao when it tried to attack China. Macau was voluntarily leased by Ming China to Portugal. Can you name the nonexistent war in which Portugal conquered Macau?

As for Britain, it already colonized Canada, parts of Africa, Singapore and then India by the time it reached China. It used Indian sepoys and Indian based fleets which were resupplied in Singapore and Malaya against China. It also used Congreve Rockets which were based off of Tipu Sultan's Mysore Rockets. So the entire British India was used against China. It was not an ant.

Take an easy guys we still building our defenses the chekwa trolls will burn the forum red with this hahahaha

@Hu Songshan this is over the tenth time he has used this slur. If i used the n-word I'm sure I would have been BANNED already.

 

[Nike]

I've been telling them Philippines Government is the most corrupt and that reason they are corrupt is US has made them corrupt and takes its share out of it. The Armed Forces need restructuring ground up the so called Ally US has sold trash to Philippines and keep offering them 1960's equipment, I Think Philippines has all the rights to modernization their Armed Forces.

In a country where basic grocery is expensive I don't know how people manage to live there should be a revolution to over throw such corrupt government but seems unlikely due to US meddling.

Not really US had made them the loser here, however Philliphine is one their key ally in Pasific region. PAF had made several contribution to US and UN military contingent while combating Communies backs in Korea War and Vietnam War. With US full military support Phillphine itself was the major regional power in ASEAN region second only after Indonesia in Soekarno era. Still in 70 era they had a formidable military power for an ASEAN countries in which they possesing some of the most advanced military aircraft and helicopter at the time, like F5, Corsair, UH 1 Huey and so on. But, i don't know what happened to Philliphine after People Power came to their house, their economic progress and military programs like had been halted forever. For first instance we can only blame for the corruption, because their alleged rampant corruption habit it is the same as in Indonesia altough i don't know which is the worst between those two.


While people power came in Philliphine in 80 decades, US fully support those democratization transitions in Phil. while trying to save those Marcos family and keep close relations with Philliphine new government. US itself never want to see one of their close allies is so weak in military and economicaly. Several times US had offering modernizations program for PAF, but long delay and sloth bureaucratic systems in Phil. made those modernizations program took forever to become reality. As an example, After the enactment of the 1995 AFP Modernization Act, the PAF made renewed calls to purchase several fighter aircraft, with the initial plan of having 36 multirole fighters in a span of 15 years.[5] Offers included the American Lockheed Martin F-16C/D Falcon and McDonnell Douglas (now Boeing) F-18C/D Hornet, French Dassault Mirage 2000-5, and the Russian Mikoyan MiG-29. US had made several offering of used F 16 blok 32, like US offer to Indonesia, but Philliphine had made decisions to reject those offer while keep saying if those F 16 is doesn't had any value anymore.

Their Navy plan is the same, as abrupt as ever. They continue to reject Maestrale class fregate in which had full armament and will boost their Naval capacity greatly in short time, while they keep the decisions to operate some junks like Cutter class former USCGuard. It is no surprise if PNavy doesn't operate a single missile corvette or fregate till this date, so how they can hoping to face PLAN in SCS, even PLAN just need to send a skuadron of their Type 56 corvette to wipe out all of Philliphine Navy vessels. In this situations even i can made an bold assumption if Brunai riverine Navy can defeat the larger but outdated Navy of Philliphine.

Yet, you can see Japan is same with Philliphine as they key ally of USA hegemon in Pasific area, but yet Japan still continue to build their defence capability and right now Japan still held the positions of the most modern Naval forces of any Asiatic races beside China and Korea. Same case here with other US key ally's like Australia, South Korea they still develop their respectiv armed forces amid guarante of security have been provide by US mutual alliances.

 

[Luftwaffe]

@madokafc, what do we call it at miscalculation and poor judgement by those Philippines government.

I still say if Argentina can keep A-4 operational so does Brazil A-4/F-5s I don't know why Philippines ditched F-5.

 

[Nike]

@madokafc, what do we call it at miscalculation and poor judgement by those Philippines government.

I still say if Argentina can keep A-4 operational so does Brazil A-4/F-5s I don't know why Philippines ditched F-5.

interestingly enough besides 37 units F5 PAF also operate some Vought F8 Crusader (35 units), but they placed it in open base when Mt. Pinatubo erupted. What a moron to placing those expensive machine in open base near eruptive mouintain in first place.

Simply because they are not interested to keeping those machines flying and operational while they prefer to allocate the funds itself for other stuff. Their government always have lame excuse to justifying their stupid reasons for not to modernize their armed forces or keeping the armed forces into one of efective combat forces.

And still it is just like a joke to me, if Philliphine trying to compete in SCS race of claims with those armed forces. Besides the China side, actually they must be wary too with Vietnamese and Malaysian intention and interest in those area especially when you are talking about abundant natural resources like Oil ,gas and others earth minerals and the Viets too have a nature to over claims his area of interest .

 

[Luftwaffe]

interestingly enough besides 37 units F5 PAF also operate some Vought F8 Crusader (35 units), but they placed it in open base when Mt. Pinatubo erupted. What a moron to placing those expensive machine in open base near eruptive mouintain in first place.

Simply because they are not interested to keeping those machines flying and operational while they prefer to allocate the funds itself for other stuff. Their government always have lame excuse to justifying their stupid reasons for not to modernize their armed forces or keeping the armed forces into one of efective combat forces.

And still it is just like a joke to me, if Philliphine trying to compete in SCS race of claims with those armed forces. Besides the China side, actually they must be wary too with Vietnamese and Malaysian intention and interest in those area especially when you are talking about abundant natural resources like Oil ,gas and others earth minerals and the Viets too have a nature to over claims his area of interest .

Interesting! but here is something Iranians got F-14s in late 1970s they got all the infrastructures with it the American standards that still stands including those famous concrete hangers, wonder if US help PHAF invested in it. So what would be the fate of KAI FA-50 in service with PHAF is unknown i hope they don't end up in storage.

Not sure but even with those islands in hand Philippines won't be able to take full advantage the government is corrupt enough disorganized and without technocrats and visionary political personalities.

 

[sweetouch]

Manila is on a mission impossible
2013-07-29 07:09
By Wang Hui (China Daily)

In his state of the nation address delivered on July 22, Philippine President Benigno Aquino avoided the territorial dispute with China in the South China Sea, a move perceived by some as showing "good judgment". But Aquino's sidestepping of the South China Sea dispute should not lure others into believing that the Philippines is keen on ratcheting down the tensions.

Actions speak louder than words. In January, Manila drummed up an attempt to seek an international arbitration tribunal verdict on the disputed territories. This is just another of the tricks Manila has been playing in recent years to try and claim for itself Chinese islands and islets in the South China Sea.

To build up the momentum for such an ill-advised quest, Manila has seized every opportunity to play up the issue of international arbitration, disregarding China's opposition and the regional consensus to resolve the South China Sea disputes at the bilateral level. Last week, the spokesman for the Philippine department of foreign affairs even said that it is now impossible for the country to continue bilateral discussions with China over the dispute and the country is seeking international arbitration under Annex VII of the United Nations Convention on the Laws of the Seas.

Manila's wishful thinking is that by evoking UNCLOS, to which both Beijing and Manila are a signatory nation, there might be a chance that the international court will support its ill-grounded maritime territorial claims, which will muddle the waters and taint China's image in the world arena.

However, its new farce is doomed to failure, as it does not have a legal basis for its claim.

True, under Annex VII of UNCLOS, countries with disputes over maritime territories could seek international arbitration. But, is UNCLOS applicable to the dispute between China and the Philippines in the South China Sea? A delve into the UN convention will tell us that the answer is probably not.

In fact, both countries have proclaimed they will not accept compulsory arbitration on territorial disputes. On August 25, 2006, in a statement submitted to the UN general-secretary, the Chinese government made a declaration in pursuance of Article 298 of UNCLOS, which allows States and entities to declare that they exclude the application of the compulsory binding procedures for the settlement of disputes, including arbitration. Other countries in the Asia-Pacific, such as Australia, the Republic of Korea and Thailand have issued similar statements.

For its part, the Philippines made a 2002 declaration that the signing of UNCLOS would not impair or prejudice the sovereignty it exercises over any territory. In other words, when it comes to territorial disputes, Manila too does not recognize UNCLOS. It is crystal clear then that the international court has no jurisdiction over the dispute between China and the Philippines.
So why is it so keen on pressing ahead with arbitration?

On Jan 22, Manila said it "does not seek a determination of which party enjoys sovereignty over the islands claimed by both of them". But it later also publicly stated that the purpose of initiating the arbitration was to achieve a "durable solution" to the dispute in the South China Sea between the two countries.

By initiating the arbitration on the basis of its illegal occupation, the Philippines has attempted to distort the basic facts, deny China's territorial sovereignty and hide its illegal occupation behind a cloak of legality.

The arbitration farce is also politically driven, as Aquino wants to divert his compatriots' attention from domestic problems and boost his own popularity through whipping up nationalistic sentiments in the country. But, the massive gathering of protesters in Manila on Monday while Aquino was delivering his speech sends a clear signal to Aquino that he cannot always pin his hopes on boosting popularity by playing the nationalism card.

As its arbitration antic is doomed to hit a wall, Manila should make a wise choice now. The Philippines should stop infringing upon China's territorial waters, refrain from internationalizing the dispute and opt for resolving the issue at the bilateral level.

The author is a senior writer with China Daily.

 

[NiceGuy]

amusing m0nkey logic lol, Brits, Portuguese and Japanese will be very unhappy that you call them ants at the height of their power in the past``

and if put your line of context into play, viets will be the excrement of those ants to be precisely

Is it the reason why China wanna 'eat' us from century to century ??

 

[Nike]

Interesting! but here is something Iranians got F-14s in late 1970s they got all the infrastructures with it the American standards that still stands including those famous concrete hangers, wonder if US help PHAF invested in it. So what would be the fate of KAI FA-50 in service with PHAF is unknown i hope they don't end up in storage.

Not sure but even with those islands in hand Philippines won't be able to take full advantage the government is corrupt enough disorganized and without technocrats and visionary political personalities.

sorry for too late to reply

Iran in one hand always have a preferences about western stuff and technology, they are very satisfied with the performance of their Tomcats and Phantom during Irak Iran war but the attrition rate for both plane is very high and despite that Iran somehow manages to operate their Phantom and Tomcats until this day. Maybe we can call what Iranian government doing to keeping their Phantom and Tomcats still flying as determination and stubborness hehee. I think Subic and Clark was the most largest US bases in South East Asia even more larger and complex during their days than what they had in Saipan and Okinawa before US left Subic and Clark in 80 decades. And wonderfully, those Phillipines doesn't use Clark airfield as it should.

Yes i am too still wondering how the Phillipine handle these FA 50 Jet Fighters if Korean delivered them someday in the near future. Even 12 jet fighters cannot make any diference when we compare them what PLAAF or PLAN Naval Aviation had in their long list, Phillipine AF still need a lot of jet fighters (and they must adding modern surface combatant ships and Submarine forces) if they wanna have more voice in those races of South China Sea. But looking at their government bureaucracy and behavior right now we can say this will be a mere fantasy from a friend.

 

[Yukio]

Abe offers maritime help for Philippines amid China row
AFP-JIJI
JUL 27, 2013

MANILA – Prime Minister Shinzo Abe pledged Saturday to increase maritime cooperation with the Philippines amid growing territorial disputes with China.

“For Japan, the Philippines is a strategic partner with whom we share fundamental values and many strategic interests,” Abe told a joint news conference with President Benigno Aquino III after they held talks in Manila.

“In order to further reinforce this relationship . . . we confirm continued assistance to the capacity-building of the Philippine Coast Guard.”

While Japan is being pressured by China over the Senkaku Islands in the East China Sea, the Philippines is also having to deal with Chinese territorial claims.

Japan announced earlier this year it will extend yen loans to allow the Philippines to purchase 10 Japanese patrol vessels.

The Philippines’ ill-equipped maritime assets have been at the forefront of tense encounters with navy and maritime surveillance vessels from China, which claims most of the South China Sea, including areas close to the Filipino coast.

China seized the Scarborough Shoal, a South China Sea outcropping just 230 km east of the main Philippine island of Luzon, last year after Manila backed down from a lengthy standoff.

This year the Philippines has complained about the presence of Chinese vessels near Second Thomas Shoal in the Spratly islands.

“The prime minister and I agreed to strengthen maritime cooperation, which is a pillar of our strategic partnership,” Aquino said Saturday.

“We reviewed the security challenges that confront our nations and pledged to cooperate in advancing our common advocacy for responsible action from international players.

“We believe this can be done by upholding the rule of law in international affairs and finding just and peaceful solutions to our territorial disputes and maritime concerns.”

Abe said he intends to use his party’s decisive victory in the Upper House election last weekend to pursue his vision of Japan’s role in the region.

“Against this backdrop I intend to further proceed with strategic diplomacy which will contribute to regional and global peace and security,” he said. “I intend to attach particular importance to our relationship with ASEAN.”

Members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations — Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines and Vietnam — have overlapping territorial claims in the South China Sea besides having to deal with China flexing its muscles.

Defense Minister Itsunori Onodera, who visited the Philippines last month, said the two countries will cooperate “in terms of the defense of remote islands . . . as well as protection of maritime interests.”

Summit in Singapore

SINGAPORE
Kyodo

Japan and Singapore have agreed to strengthen economic cooperation, confirming plans to jointly promote the export of infrastructure systems to other countries.

During their meeting Friday in Singapore, Prime Minister Shinzo Abe and Singapore Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong also confirmed plans to coordinate moves in negotiating for the Trans-Pacific Partnership trade agreement and another large free-trade bloc known as the Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership, which encompasses East Asia.

Abe said at a joint news conference after their talks that he and Lee agreed to strengthen cooperation between the two countries’ defense forces, especially for disaster and rescue operations.

Lee said they exchanged views on “overlapping territorial disputes,” an apparent reference to China’s territorial claims.

“I expressed the hope that the countries concerned would manage these differences peacefully and in accordance with international law. . . . But I also expressed the hope that issues should not affect the overall stability of the region,” Lee said. “We all benefit from a stable Asia.”

Abe offers maritime help for Philippines amid China row | The Japan Times

 

[cirr]

New CCG vessels in the makings：

Also note the horizontally placed reddish section in the 2nd pic. It probably belongs to the 20th Type 054A frigate。

 

[EastSea]

Russia to Hand Over ‘Black Hole’ Sub to Vietnam in November


MOSCOW, July 29 (RIA Novosti) – The first of six Russian submarines, dubbed by the US Navy as “black holes in the ocean” because they are nearly undetectable when submerged, will be delivered to Vietnam in November, the shipbuilder said Monday.
The Varshavyanka class (Project 636M) of diesel-electric submarines have very low noise emission and can hit targets at long distances without being detected by an enemy’s anti-submarine warfare assets.

“We are expecting the signing of the acceptance act and the sub’s sailing to Vietnam in November,” the press service of Admiralty Shipyards said from St. Petersburg.
The submarine successfully completed 100-day sea trials in July while the Vietnamese crew has been in training since April this year, the shipbuilder said in a statement.
“The vessel showed excellent maneuverability and reliable work of all mechanisms during the trials,” the statement said.

Vietnam ordered a fleet of six Russian-made submarines in 2009, seen as an effort to counterbalance China’s expanding maritime influence in the region. The contract, which also stipulates the training of Vietnamese submarine crews in Russia, is reportedly worth $2 billion.
All six boats are being built at Admiralty Shipyards. They are due for delivery by 2016.
The Varshavyanka class is an improvement on the Kilo, with more advanced stealth technology and an extended combat range. The vessels displace 3,100 tons, reach speeds of 20 knots, can dive to 300 meters and carry crews of 52 people.

The submarines, which feature 533-milimeter torpedo tubes and are armed with torpedoes, mines and Kalibr 3M54 (NATO SS-N-27 Sizzler) cruise missiles, are mainly intended for anti-shipping and anti-submarine missions in relatively shallow waters.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...-hole-sub-vietnam-november.html#ixzz2ahsEZmzD

 

[cirr]

4000-tonne CCG 3401 is nearly ready for launch：