Sophistication of Indian tech is now sufficient to build a Rafale

[desimorty]

The Rafale and Tejas go hand in hand. They use similar composite sheets over the frame layout. On top of that France is offering full ToT. This is not about India getting robbed, but rather India getting a MMRCA with ToT.
If follow Rafale market, you'll note that Rafale is being bailed out but the India order. Ontop of that, if India goes to RnD another fighter itll take 10 more years to complete! Even the AMCA! The Rafale is complete, and will be license produced in India. Makes sense, since the Rafale offers the best price to bail its self out, ontop of that India will provide maintiance shops for the Rafale on the equator for other clients. Its a win win. France isn't getting a lot of money, and what france gets, they will have to put back into the Indian market.
1 way trade doesn't work, ask China.
Trade is always 2 ways.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

Well China is ahead in some regards and India in other, I would hesitate to label India as "better" than China in this domain so categorically..

China is definitely ahead of India. I was referring to Brazil, Indonesia etc.

 

[Hyperion]

Dude, why do you open such threads??? it's obvious from your cursory understanding of engineering that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about -- the question then becomes, why, why, why you do what you do?

Btw, it's not only engineering where you seem to be limited-in.......

@FaujiHistorian

On topic: India has absolutely nothing to manufacture anything even remotely close to a Rafale (for the foreseeable future)........

 

[ashish1]

I would also like to add that Rafale will not kill AMCA infact RAFALE deal is very important for AMCA.So please stop saying that scrap RAFALE and focus on AMCA.

 

[ashish1]

On topic: India has absolutely nothing to manufacture anything even remotely close to a Rafale (for the foreseeable future)........

We are alrady manufacturing Sukhoi from scratch,what makes you think that we cant manufacture RAFALE??.
YOu should actually say that we cant devlop a fighter like RAFALE from R&D in next 10 years.

 

[Raul_AD]

Infallible logic implies having full knowledge of the matter - which even many in India cannot be having (about MMRCA/FGFA).
So how some people managed to find such information is beyond me to guess.



Maybe YOU would...but would PAF and GoP? But either way it's not like you have much choice beyond looking at Chinese
projects due to worsening relations with the West, so no wonder even if you decide to stick with JFT.

Anyway - even in India the same formula of maximizing indigenous input is being/will be followed. Infact our
more developed industrial capabilities ensure than we can manufacture almost 80-85% of such aircraft within India.
But make no mistake, if we have the choice of getting our hands on a high-end, already developed platform which
has lots of scope for further development - we will take it. Anyone who's in our position would.

The Tejas project is ongoing with 20-40 Mk-1 (IAF), 83 Mk-2 (IAF) and 46 Mk-2N (Navy) versions already outlined for
procurement and our agencies are currently working toward that goal. If needed, the numbers will be increased
to several hundred, maybe even give production contract to private companies.

BTW, "indigenous input" in planes like Su-30MKI is already much higher than what is there on JF-17. This shows
the formula isn't much different across the borders - but as we have the money, another, far more sophisticated
platform, Rafale, is being procured. Even in this a lot of stuff will be produced in India itself. For example, HAL has
contracted to produce the M88-2 engines (just like how they produce AL-31FP for MKI) and the fuselage, BEL/DRDO will produce the RBE-2 AESA radar and the all-advanced SPECTRA suite, private cos. like Reliance Aerospace will
produce the wings, SAMTEL will produce the FSO/DDM-NG optronics and HMDS, and so on.

As time goes by, we'll start adding completely home-grown systems like we did with MKI - like the RWRs, HUD-WAC,
electronics, MFDs, and outfit it with our weapons, Astra BVRAAM, new ALCMs & PGMs etc.

I will offer a much bigger explanation in the morning if you want (it's 1AM here now.)

Pakistan is doing much better with JF-17 utilizing the funds which they have.

They are evolving their strategies around that aircraft.

Atleast appreciate them what they are doing in their restricted fundings.

 

[sancho]

First deliver initial 2 subs which are without AIP then talk about AIP carrying subs.

Lol are you criticizing MDL and DRDO now? Because they earlier messed up the licence production and the latter is developing the AIP.

 

[Hyperion]

OH PLEASE. Manufacture from scratch my hiney.............. you need to consult some of your more knowledgable Indian friends........

We are alrady manufacturing Sukhoi from scratch,what makes you think that we cant manufacture RAFALE??.
YOu should actually say that we cant devlop a fighter like RAFALE from R&D in next 10 years.

 

[Gessler]

Pakistan is doing much better with JF-17 utilizing the funds which they have.

Okay...a plane who's computer is written in C++ is doing better than what we're doing with Su-30MKI ??

Please...

They are evolving their strategies around that aircraft.

Sure cuz it's going to be their backbone, like we have MKI (272 ordered, upto 320+ possible). You
can only evolve your strategy with a plane you have, right?

Atleast appreciate them what they are doing in their restricted fundings.

I do what I please - I've just returned from a 2-week ban so stop bothering me brother. You can open a thread
about appreciating PAF's projects within their budget if you want.

 

[ashish1]

OH PLEASE. Manufacture from scratch my hiney.............. you need to consult some of your more knowledgable Indian friends........

After phase 4 we will be manufacturing more than 90% of the Sukhoi here in India.Currently we manufacture about 80%.Phase 4 will be completed in about 1 to 2 years.

 

[Jungibaaz]

Really? Even if that meant a gap of about 15-20 years before you actually saw a fighter emerge?

It doesn't always need to take that long. But fine, let's say 15 years. An AF that has self sufficiency as it's goals plans a little further ahead. We planned for the JF-17 since the mid 90's, 15 years on, we had it. MMRCA was announced in 2007, it's already been 7 years, perhaps realistically another 2 years before the final arrangements are made and the first batches delivered. Besides, you tell me, what's the time frame for local production, please do enlighten me, add that on from 2007 and tell me if you don't get a pretty little double digit figure.

Don't be so defensive. The Rafale deal is huge, it's bound to have some sort of advantages and disadvantages, you do not need to bite someone's head off for pointing that out.

You say 16 Billion, but I bet that if it's signed today, 10 years from now not only will it be 20 billion, but in fact more than 20 billion even in real terms with inflation taken in to account.

2)That India is buying from abroad means no money will be spent on India's domestic aviation industry
3) The orders for Rafale will in some way hurt the orders for the LCA

The fact of the matter is even for $20 BN USD India couldn't make a plane up to the Rafale's standards before 2030 and Pakistan couldn't do so for at least 3 decades (if it went alone). So does that mean you let your military standstill as its opponents (China) grow stronger and stronger? Let's get one thing clear- the Rafale is going to meet a very specific need in the IAF's fleet, it is not coming as a "Gucci" item, it isn't just some vanity purchase but born out of a tangible threat perception.

2) and 3) Nobody said that LCA will hugely lose out, OR that NO money will be spent in the domestic industry. The fact of the matter is, you import, a great chunk of money is leaving your economy and whether your industry gets a greater share of in a better deal, it's an opportunity cost foregone.

Rafale will mean you will be spending money where you could have spent it elsewhere, it's basic economic theory.

 

[Raul_AD]

Okay...a plane who's computer is written in C++ is doing better than what we're doing with Su-30MKI ??
Please...
Sure cuz it's going to be their backbone, like we have MKI (272 ordered, upto 320+ possible). You
can only evolve your strategy with a plane you have, right?
I do what I please - I've just returned from a 2-week ban so stop bothering me brother. You can open a thread
about appreciating PAF's projects within their budget if you want.

Utilizing the resources which they have got. Atleast they are not sitting idle in cash strapped situation.

Think about what IAF has done in past 20 years??? (SU-MKI was a political decision no credit to IAF).

 

[Gessler]

Whatever "self-sufficiency" Pakistan has achieved by building the JF-17, India had already achieved more than that in the thousands of aircraft we built here since 1950. Especially with the MKI.

 

[Kloitra]

Utilizing the resources which they have got. Atleast they are not sitting idle in cash strapped situation.

Think about what IAF has done in past 20 years??? (SU-MKI was a political decision no credit to IAF).

What is IAF supposed to do? It is already utilizing the resources it has. Extended the lifetime of mig 21s, upgrades of Jaguars etc. LCA can't do the role of Mki or Rafale. If you are comparing it with Pakistan, they have a defensive policy and a small landmass. A very small depth. Compared to that, India needs heavier aircraft.

 

[madooxno9]

We are just lazy *** nigge* , so let us buy this cute looking thing.