Sophistication of Indian tech is now sufficient to build a Rafale

[FaujHistorian]

Umm - doesn't the Rafale come with a technology transfer agreement to build a sizeable number in India itself?

kit assembly. yes.
building/manufacturing? no.

 

[saurav]

Bro while i agree with you, i must say its not just France, every major power in this world will never sell you their engine tech, NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU PAY for it, not even your so called 'best friends' as your Indian brothers here call Russia.lol Engine tech is the most advanced tech a country can possess and takes decades of R&D/cash/capital/manpower/skills/knowledge/resources/industries etc to develope a reliable engine. And you think after all these a country will just hand you their engine tech for some few billions? lool Nope it will never happen. India should stop trying to look for a short cut, invest and develope your own engines, it will take time yes, but at the end it will be worth it, afterall, no country will fight a war with India anytime soon. So i dont see why you people are in a hurry anyway. Take your time and make your own weapons systems.

Exactly... I dont understand this rush to sign such a huge deal when we know that not anything worthwhile is going to come out of it. When we will import Engines for Rafale, why not do the same for LCA till home grown engine is ready..?

 

[farhan_9909]

PAC can offer help if required

 

[Kompromat]

The technology infrastructure just doesn't exist. From major subsytems like Engines, Radar, CNC Texture weavers, FLIR, to smaller systems like actuators, load cells, US transducers, Opto-electronics, metallurgy, ... It will take years to develop the technological environment to support multiple tech projects efficiently in India. ToT is a rather recent (last 3 decades) phenomenon and will set up the indigenous industry to take up technological challenges, the PIII implementation of AL alloy stampings, Air fame structure, in house designed servos and Actuators, and mission electronics for MKi is a prime example.

IAF cannot wait for another 15 years to get decent jets, and Rafale was evalauted as the best option for the IAF... Making strides in aeronautics is uphill task for any developing country, In another 10-20 years, we will see better results, just like we are seeing the achivements of ISRO today, due to the investments made throught the last two decades in the organisation.

Valid points but someone needs to start this so in a decade and half you can have what you need.

 

[Icewolf]

PAC should offer technological assistance to HAL in its LCA program. Otherwise this TEJAS will only be finished near 2040 i assume

 

[MilSpec]

Valid points but someone needs to start this so in a decade and half you can have what you need.

And there is, unfortunately, thelearning curve is quite severe, and DRDO/HAL/PSU's Along with Tata-Rliance L&T and some of the smaller local manufacturer in the vicinity of these manufacturing giants are realizing the potential of augumenting foriegn components and the ease by which it can be produced.... It is already happening , but a Million part assembly is no easy feat... I can see some positives but the mega drawback is mis-management and non allignment of defense entities with the end user especially in the case of IAF....

 

[Kompromat]

And there is, unfortunately, thelearning curve is quite severe, and DRDO/HAL/PSU's Along with Tata-Rliance L&T and some of the smaller local manufacturer in the vicinity of these manufacturing giants are realizing the potential of augumenting foriegn components and the ease by which it can be produced.... It is already happening , but a Million part assembly is no easy feat... I can see some positives but the mega drawback is mis-management and non allignment of defense entities with the end user especially in the case of IAF....

So in other words PAC works better, developing multiple aircraft while handling all of PAF's fleet plus foreign customers due to the fact that its owned and run by PAF therefore the red tape is low?

 

[MilSpec]

kit assembly. yes.
building/manufacturing? no.

I will take you up on that....Compare the ToT of MKI itself.... I am not sure if you have been involved in any ToT's but I have seen multiple PED line transfers and ToT projects for capital equipment and I can personally assure you that ToT especially for Mig21 and MKI's have been extensive as I have seen.

 

[karan21]

Maybe India does have what it takes to build an air superiority fighter. We can prolly copy and buy the technologies that we don't have. Maybe it is possible. But it will take atleast 10-15 years to do so. Does IAF have time?? I don't think so.

 

[karan21]

PAC should offer technological assistance to HAL in its LCA program. Otherwise this TEJAS will only be finished near 2040 i assume

Really and what help can PAC offer India???? Enlighten me more about Pakistan's aerospace prowess.

 

[MilSpec]

So in other words PAC works better, developing multiple aircraft while handling all of PAF's fleet plus foreign customers due to the fact that its owned and run by PAF therefore the red tape is low?

I wouldn't be able to comment on that, I haven't seen what PAC does? It's assembly line doesn't seem exahustive as HAL's, I have never seen one claim of PAC manufacturing any airframes, any wing spars, any landing struts. I dont even know if PAC has a decent sized Aluminium Profiler to machine Wing skins.... It's comparing apples to oranges...

As far as fleet considerations are Indian Fleets are more than thrice the size of pakistan. In other words, One Division of HAL, manufactures and assembles the entire MKI, provides overhaul for Mig27's, Mig21 bisons, Upgrades Mig27 Dare, Manufactures subsystems for GSLV and PSLV, and landing gear life extension of Jaguars, ALH, Cheetah and Chetak....That's just one division!

 

[Icewolf]

Really and what help can PAC offer India???? Enlighten me more about Pakistan's aerospace prowess.

HAL is missing enthusiasm, intelligence, and orderly operations that PAC has

 

[Bhuvan93]

I hear a lot about this TOT but what relevance does the TOT from a 4.5th gen fighter have on the next plane India develops, a 6th gen fighter? Surely they'd stand to benefit far more if they ploughed the funds ($20B) from the Rafale deal into the Tejas/AMCA projects with the joint partnership of possibly Boeing or Saab?

And another question, with all these platforms and all these aicraft, surely it'll be a headache for the airforce? If one presumes that the Navy will order the F35/F18 SH then they are dealing with Lockheed or MD as well as Boeing, Sukhoi, MiG, HAL and Dassault. An Airforce built up of MiG-29s/Su-30MKIs/Tejas I, II & possibly III, AMCA, FGFA, Rafale, Mirage 2000, F35 as well as Boeing transporters is surely a mess, no? And that's for the next 20 years too!

I'm all for the Rafale but the option to take up extra aircraft (186 was it?) will have to be taken up to help justify the pricetag and Tejas just cannot be killed for the sake of the Rafale and neither can the AMCA be put on the backburner.

 

[Gessler]

The Chinese simply have no need to risk expensive planes and pilots rushing production of the required hundreds of WS-10X engines, when the Russians are more than happy to supply the AL-31 at reasonable cost.

Exactly. And IAF has no need to sit waiting for indigenous alternatives while our squadron numbers are declining and pilots are running the risk of crashing in their old planes.

Especially not when you have excellent foreign aircraft on offer with high level of ToT, local production line, access to next-gen techs on top of the production-engineering knowledge.

@UKBengali

 

[Kompromat]

I wouldn't be able to comment on that, I haven't seen what PAC does? It's assembly line doesn't seem exahustive as HAL's, I have never seen one claim of PAC manufacturing any airframes, any wing spars, any landing struts. I dont even know if PAC has a decent sized Aluminium Profiler to machine Wing skins.... It's comparing apples to oranges...

As far as fleet considerations are Indian Fleets are more than thrice the size of pakistan. In other words, One Division of HAL, manufactures and assembles the entire MKI, provides overhaul for Mig27's, Mig21 bisons, Upgrades Mig27 Dare, Manufactures subsystems for GSLV and PSLV, and landing gear life extension of Jaguars, ALH, Cheetah and Chetak....That's just one division!

Watch this and give me your OP. -