So who really won the recent Israeli-Palestinian conflict?

[Arabian Legend]

Gaza did

 

[Agent X]

Israel like always.

 

[PteX]

Never has been a time when Arabs were destroyed and didn't claim glorious victory.
Their propganda works best on the weak minded, of course.

 

[Harry_Thomason]

Polls in Israel show: 20% say Israel won, 29% say Hamas won, 45% say it was a draw.

That said, as article mentioned - Israel havent achieved its goals against tiny Hamas, and ceasefire agreement actually benefits Palestinians. Therefore even if it was a draw (as majority of Jews thinks) - its a win for the vastly weaker side. Like 300 Spartans hold off much greater army, it was "a draw" - but due to power disparity, no one questions who won.

 

[Zabaniyah]

Never has been a time when Arabs were destroyed and didn't claim glorious victory.
Their propganda works best on the weak minded, of course.

Arabs? ARABS?

 

[Kaniska]

I am not sure whether social and political scientist from Middle east and Islamic world understand or not....As long as education, technology,development, economic progress is with side of the West.Europe and Israel till that point in all the wars, Israel will be winner... Believe me or not, If Hamas and its sympathizer feel that just firing couple of rockets and in return sacrificing huge number of 170+ people, infrastructure, loss to its own economy is a win for them..then God bless them and also their sympathizer.

Time has come,Palestine and its people who are related to this issue, should come out of the mindset that they will destroy Israel in another few year and claim the victory...This is not practical thought at this point of time. They have to have a long term vision...I was going through the political statement by some of the Islamic states like Turley, Egypt and some other nation...These are just some kind of lip service rather than any concrete steps...They are simply targeting some short term again for their own public consumption rather than really addressing the issue...One the one hand, these nations are key partner to the west and on the other hand...they pretend to be taking some bold steps to help Palestine issue..which is not the real case what it seems to be....

I find sympathy, sorrow and sad for oridinary people of Palestine...who deserve a better life at least for their next generation...Ans Israel,being the powerful nation, is expected to take the initiative to protect the human being of Palestine that will him more respect...

 

[somebozo]

Never has been a time when Arabs were destroyed and didn't claim glorious victory.
Their propganda works best on the weak minded, of course.

You nailed it..even the Arabs intelact admit this condition. Years of living under suppression will do this to anyone.

@mods
Dont shoot me for posting the vids, I am just a messenger.
This is a civil discussion among well known anchors and agreed as well.



In over all objective, Israel eliminated the Hamas commander and a bunch of rocket launch sites. Taught Gaza a lesson and now there will be peace for a while.
Meantime much of the Hamas rockets were intercepted by Iron Dome - wonder why do they even waste time behind this now.

 

[somebozo]

 

[Strigon]

Such threads don't show which side won but which side's sympathizers in the thread are winning. But then again...no to support Hamas or anything...Do you really consider an advanced military backed by US both financial and hardware against a group of people with soviet era weapons with minimal to no training at all a war?

What you should match these two forces on, is to what degree they can fight with their respective weapons grade.

 

[Solomon2]

Who needs a victory shot?

Op-ed: What image do our political, military leaders need to satisfy Israeli population's desire for a military victory?

Eitan Haber
Published: 11.20.12, 21:01 / Israel Opinion

Who is behind the nonsense about "a military achievement to end the battle"? Who is looking for the proper "victory image" for Operation Pillar of Defense, which is still going on in full force as we speak? What is all this jabbering about?

The Zionist Movement, in its different forms, has been in a state of war with the Palestinian people for more than 120 years now. The 1929 riots, the War of Independence, the Six-Day War and a host of names for each operation, action and battle. The names are the only thing that changes.

Pillar of Defense is also part of that war, which will likely not end soon. As such, it has already recorded some achievements: The execution of the Hamas military chief, direct hits on Hamas centers and the interception of rocket barrages with the Iron Dome system.

Then why do we need a "victory shot"? What "victory image" do our political and military leaders need in order to satisfy the Israeli population's desire for a military victory?

The State of Israel is surrounded by more than 200,000 missiles and rockets. The Arab countries around us, and the Palestinians, have learned their lessons from the past: They cannot overpower the Israeli Air Force. They have also learned another thing, most likely following the first Gulf War: The civilian population is vulnerable, and responds with extreme mood swings.

In accordance with these understandings, Arab countries and terror organizations have armed themselves with an incredible amount of missiles and rockets. But the IDF's actions this week have led the Arabs to a new insight: A combination of excellent intelligence and an outstanding Air Force can neutralize a significant part of the rocket and missile threat. The Iron Dome defense system adds to the heavy blow they suffered.


Pillar of Defense is just another chapter in Israel's book of wars. In two months or two years time, if not earlier, the situation will repeat itself: Once again they will try to strike us with missiles, once against the Air Force will embark on its missions, and once again Iron Dome batteries will rise to neutralize the threat.

This is our life here, in the "villa in the jungle," as Defense Minister Ehud Barak once said. There is no need for any "victory image." It will be more than enough if Chief of Staff Benny Gantz, whose army has done a very good job this week, says today or tomorrow that this stage is over. To be continued, unfortunately.

 

[Wright]

Polls in Israel show: 20% say Israel won, 29% say Hamas won, 45% say it was a draw.

That said, as article mentioned - Israel havent achieved its goals against tiny Hamas, and ceasefire agreement actually benefits Palestinians. Therefore even if it was a draw (as majority of Jews thinks) - its a win for the vastly weaker side. Like 300 Spartans hold off much greater army, it was "a draw" - but due to power disparity, no one questions who won.

Spartans inflicted a very high kill ratio on the Persians. The kill ratio in the recent conflict is 35:1 in Israels favor.

 

[Hammer-fist]

1. If we were to take the latest bout of violence separate from any wider historical, strategic context then Israel is indeed the winner here.

Israel pounded Gaza, killed a senior Hamas leader and killed 170 Palestinians.

Israel won the battle.

Are they winning the war?

Well the US never lost a battle in Vietnam but they ended up losing the war.

2. Wider context

a - Israel used to occupy Gaza.

They had to leave. Jewish soldiers had to evict Jewish settlers from what they believe is part of their biblical divinely-promised land. During the intifada that time at the most Israel faced stones.

b - Israel left/was expelled (chose your pick) from Gaza quite a few years ago and has its security improved? No.

Whereas once Palestinians merely threw stones, they now use missiles which every couple of years increase in power and lethality.

c - Has Hamas been destroyed?

NO

d - Has Hamas been strengthened?

Yes, Hamas are seen as heroes and standing up to Israel whilst Fatah as lacking in "valour".

e - Has Israel ensured a permanent end to rocket attacks?

No

Rocket attacks will probably resume sometime in the future.

f - Is Israel more accepted in the region with more and more states normalizing ties and distancing themselves from Palestinians?

No. The Arab spring removed the secular nationalist Mubarak regime and bought in a more anti-Israeli brotherhood regime in Egypt. Egypt is one of only 2 Arab states to have normalized relations with Israel, now even that is very cold.

At the very least you can say this is just another round of mid-east violence which we may see a repeat of in a few years time. In the long run the future does not seem to bright for Israel which:

- Gave up Sinai in 1982

- Agreed to a Palestinian quasi state in 1993, creating a Palestinian police force with guns which were later used.

- Left Gaza, which is now used as an attack base

- Left Lebanon in 2002

- Was seen by many as a loser in the 2006 Israel-Hizbullah war

- Has clearly emerged weaker between the 2008 and 2012 Gaza operations.

In other words Israel has been leaving and withdraw from territory consistently whilst Arabs have been gaining territory as well as political and para-military power.

There is a reason why Kissinger said there may be no Israel in 10 years, though I had predicted that a while back to friends.

 

[PteX]

Spartans inflicted a very high kill ratio on the Persians. The kill ratio in the recent conflict is 35:1 in Israels favor.

I thought he was joking when comparing Arabs to Spartans. Considering that the Arabs outnumber the Israeli Jews 60:1.
Not to mention the fact that Arabs are considered and have proven to be complete cowards while the Spartans were a nation of warriors.

 

[livingdead]

Anybody who thinks israel lost and hamas won based on jubilation in gaza (and protest in israel) should watch a 5 day test cricket match that ends in draw. Usually the captain of the team that is grinning ear to ear is the side that was going to lose.