Sino-Japanese Rift is part of US is part of US strategy, says an ex diploma

[terranMarine]

Yet they could have easily retracted those words. But as they said actions speaks louder than words.

Now don't act as America is the gentlemen by keeping their words. If you were the man in charge back then maybe you would have retracted those words as you say why give it back to the enemies you have beaten LOL. I wonder how Churchill and Stalin would have reacted.

 

[jhungary]

Let me tell you why both ROC and China not petitioning to US when they still have control, that's becuase nobody remember that bloody island, not only after 1969 when the first report surfaced that the Senkaku may have oil in it, everybody say it's theirs.

Korea is not Clearly mentioned as to who will administrate the whole korea and hence the Korean War Broke out. I was never meant to mention they left out korea, my bad for misleading, i was quite tired.

What you see the Yuan-yen thing is superficial, you only see how it may affect the Japan-Chinese relationship, but the fact is, it's totally not relate to Either Chinese-US, Japan-US or even Asia-US relationship. Even if all of Asia uses RMB to trade within themselve, the US dollar will still be used to trade from Asia to US and EU as RMB is not regonised by any US/EU bank as official trading currency. And as i said, 5 trillion (I think it was 4.8 trillion in 2011) trade and almost half of them is from US/EU. Even Asia as a whole totally don't use US Dollar to trade for anything, it will not damage the US economy big. Only if the whole Asia Stop trading with US (Not using it money but stop all trading, import and export) Then there will be trouble.

If you are sayoing i am making long story out of nothing, then you are making nothing out of nothing. There are not much to be leart from all the word you said, you literally can unsaid all the thing you say before and the world will not miss out on anything.

You don't know much about world politic, you don't know how monetery foundation work nor do you know how the world economy work. While you point out you point from nowhere, you assume everything that's in your favor. That's not how people discuss things.

I am still awaiting the answer on how giving senkaku to Japan will benefit the US. Which you have never answer me in depth, just speculating on the US did some trick on the Cairo Declaration is not an answer to the question, as i said, you don't know who draft it and you don't know how they can see the exact thing that's lacking is the exact thing that been dispute....

 

[Oldman1]

Now don't act as America is the gentlemen by keeping their words. If you were the man in charge back then maybe you would have retracted those words as you say why give it back to the enemies you have beaten LOL. I wonder how Churchill and Stalin would have reacted.

Like Stalin taking over most of the Eastern European countries and Churchill calling it the Iron Curtain. Oh it happened.

 

[terranMarine]

Like Stalin taking over most of the Eastern European countries and Churchill calling it the Iron Curtain. Oh it happened.

Stalin must have retracted from a signed agreement then. Can you show us the declaration where the Russians agreed not to control Eastern Europe?

 

[terranMarine]

Let me tell you why both ROC and China not petitioning to US when they still have control, that's becuase nobody remember that bloody island, not only after 1969 when the first report surfaced that the Senkaku may have oil in it, everybody say it's theirs.

Korea is not Clearly mentioned as to who will administrate the whole korea and hence the Korean War Broke out. I was never meant to mention they left out korea, my bad for misleading, i was quite tired.

What you see the Yuan-yen thing is superficial, you only see how it may affect the Japan-Chinese relationship, but the fact is, it's totally not relate to Either Chinese-US, Japan-US or even Asia-US relationship. Even if all of Asia uses RMB to trade within themselve, the US dollar will still be used to trade from Asia to US and EU as RMB is not regonised by any US/EU bank as official trading currency. And as i said, 5 trillion (I think it was 4.8 trillion in 2011) trade and almost half of them is from US/EU. Even Asia as a whole totally don't use US Dollar to trade for anything, it will not damage the US economy big. Only if the whole Asia Stop trading with US (Not using it money but stop all trading, import and export) Then there will be trouble.

If you are sayoing i am making long story out of nothing, then you are making nothing out of nothing. There are not much to be leart from all the word you said, you literally can unsaid all the thing you say before and the world will not miss out on anything.

You don't know much about world politic, you don't know how monetery foundation work nor do you know how the world economy work. While you point out you point from nowhere, you assume everything that's in your favor. That's not how people discuss things.

I am still awaiting the answer on how giving senkaku to Japan will benefit the US. Which you have never answer me in depth, just speculating on the US did some trick on the Cairo Declaration is not an answer to the question, as i said, you don't know who draft it and you don't know how they can see the exact thing that's lacking is the exact thing that been dispute....

Don't you get tired of repeating that the yuan-yen mechanism isn't gonna damage the US$ as the wold dominant currency? Where the hell did i say US$ would lose its dominance? You keep on hammering Asia would still be using the US$ to trade with America but did i even claim Asian countries would stop using US$? This is why you are making a long story out of nothing. Just because you served in the military doesn't mean you know politics buddy, the dispute between China and Japan has negative effects to both our countries but none to America. In fact America can have some benefit to it. And for the last time i never said US did a trick on the Cairo declaration, you Americans love accusing people don't you. Go back and read my posts where i said US did some tricks. If you can't find it then i suggest you to STFU. Also for last time where the F**K did i say US giving back the island to Japan would benefit US? I said The US would surely benefit if Sino-Japanese relation is getting strained. One possible way is bribing the right wingers to cause the dispute with the purchase. US is not giving the island to Japan now, they simply handed the administration to Japan back in the 70's and the dispute has been going on since then.

 

[jhungary]

Don't you get tired of repeating that the yuan-yen mechanism isn't gonna damage the US$ as the wold dominant currency? Where the hell did i say US$ would lose its dominance? You keep on hammering Asia would still be using the US$ to trade with America but did i even claim Asian countries would stop using US$? This is why you are making a long story out of nothing. Just because you served in the military doesn't mean you know politics buddy, the dispute between China and Japan has negative effects to both our countries but none to America. In fact America can have some benefit to it. And for the last time i never said US did a trick on the Cairo declaration, you Americans love accusing people don't you. Go back and read my posts where i said US did some tricks. If you can't find it then i suggest you to STFU. Also for last time where the F**K did i say US giving back the island to Japan would benefit US? I said The US would surely benefit if Sino-Japanese relation is getting strained. One possible way is bribing the right wingers to cause the dispute with the purchase. US is not giving the island to Japan now, they simply handed the administration to Japan back in the 70's and the dispute has been going on since then.

Dude, i was a University Graduate major in International Politic, that ive me right to comment on world politics. Do you need me to scan my diploma online eh?

Again, you are saying nothing out of nothing, you are just using a bunch of word to mask that you have literally no point on making your agrument, it's hard to agrue with someone who have no point at all.......For this, this post is nothing about me, it's all about you, i am going to ask a series of question regarding your point.

Quote "the dispute between China and Japan has negative effects to both our countries but none to America. In fact America can have some benefit to it"

So what exactly have US benefit from the dispute, if not for the US Currency? You have not yet illustrate your point. What do you mean by some? Some financial? Territorial? Resource? or What?

Quote " I said The US would surely benefit if Sino-Japanese relation is getting strained"

My Question is How? I did not once hear how this will benefit the US if the Sino-Japanese relationship is getting strained?

Quote "One possible way is bribing the right wingers to cause the dispute with the purchase."

Funny you should say that as you also said "you Americans love accusing people don't you. " but in the end your statement is or isn't accusing the American Politician Bribery on this issue? And if so, where is your evidence?


I am not going to reply to you anymore until i get the answer from these 3 question. Now, this post is for you only, i haven't said anything on me. If you can't reply to this post i suggest that you go sod yourselve.

 

[terranMarine]

Dude, i was a University Graduate major in International Politic, that ive me right to comment on world politics. Do you need me to scan my diploma online eh?

Again, you are saying nothing out of nothing, you are just using a bunch of word to mask that you have literally no point on making your agrument, it's hard to agrue with someone who have no point at all.......For this, this post is nothing about me, it's all about you, i am going to ask a series of question regarding your point.

Quote "the dispute between China and Japan has negative effects to both our countries but none to America. In fact America can have some benefit to it"

So what exactly have US benefit from the dispute, if not for the US Currency? You have not yet illustrate your point. What do you mean by some? Some financial? Territorial? Resource? or What?

Quote " I said The US would surely benefit if Sino-Japanese relation is getting strained"

My Question is How? I did not once hear how this will benefit the US if the Sino-Japanese relationship is getting strained?

Quote "One possible way is bribing the right wingers to cause the dispute with the purchase."

Funny you should say that as you also said "you Americans love accusing people don't you. " but in the end your statement is or isn't accusing the American Politician Bribery on this issue? And if so, where is your evidence?


I am not going to reply to you anymore until i get the answer from these 3 question. Now, this post is for you only, i haven't said anything on me. If you can't reply to this post i suggest that you go sod yourselve.

Indeed i don't have evidence which is why i said there is a possibility. You might as well ask the author of the article post #1 whether he has any evidence for his book for accusing America for disrupting Sino-Japanese relations. Not gonna continue this dicussion about US benefits with an ignorant blind guy who thinks US won't benefit a sh!t because he thinks so.

 

[jhungary]

Indeed i don't have evidence which is why i said there is a possibility. You might as well ask the author of the article post #1 whether he has any evidence for his book for accusing America for disrupting Sino-Japanese relations. Not gonna continue this dicussion about US benefits with an ignorant blind guy who thinks US won't benefit a sh!t because he thinks so.

Dude, that's great of yours, i have point out every clue and historical fact i can find and you are the one with your words and your assumption, which is biased.

I don't believe America have any benefit not because i believe it doesn't, there are no fact in supporting the agruement. If there are fact that support there are American, even one american benefit on the issue, i will support what you say. I also said there are no benefit that US Engage in Vietnam in the 60s, which is the same situation and same deal, only it's not an island, and it's way smaller. Enough said.

 

[grandmaster]

Let me tell you why both ROC and China not petitioning to US when they still have control, that's becuase nobody remember that bloody island, not only after 1969 when the first report surfaced that the Senkaku may have oil in it, everybody say it's theirs.

....blah blah.... been dispute....

okay, so why dont we talk about what the US did? the US just acted as if they returned the robbed property to the robber, i.e. Japan, not to the owner of the property, i.e China, and have been trying to protect the robber. that is not the law of any country in the world. you said you are politician. i know they will try to go around this point. but you have to take it. since the US did that with it strength in the wrong way. it is not trusted and fair for any country to petition anything to the justice of the US. international has the international justice not that of the US. so, your opion means that the US has right to force other nations to obey its rule. it clearly shows your are hegemonist

 

[ahfatzia]

At this point in time there's no need to debate what the Americans have to gain when the Chinese and the Japanese are at each others' throats. Everybody should know the answer.

It's always the US's 'national interests' to control Japan or anyone else for that matter. I don't exactly know why's that but that's what she wants and she'll go a long way to achieve that goal. Perhaps a new form of colonialism is the best answer.

Let me put it another way. Why is China rise is a threat to American's 'national interests'? If not then what does she mean by 'Asia pivot' and has had many recent military dealings with China's neighbors: Vietnam, Thailand, Myanmar, Bangladesh, India and etc. How can China be a threat to the US where she's safe and secured in a faraway land. Why she needs hundreds of military bases around the world just to protect herself and her allies.

Who and where these threats come from for her to justify spending hundreds of billions of dollars annually for protections? With her military infrastructure already in place a tenth of that expenditure should be enough to protect all her interests from the perceived threats she's getting.

The only explanation I can find is that she wants more than protection, she wants to control. She wants to control every single nation in the world. The funny thing is, for the average Americans, the cost's far out weighted the benefits in terms of resources and lives.

 

[jhungary]

okay, so why dont we talk about what the US did? the US just acted as if they returned the robbed property to the robber, i.e. Japan, not to the owner of the property, i.e China, and have been trying to protect the robber. that is not the law of any country in the world. you said you are politician. i know they will try to go around this point. but you have to take it. since the US did that with it strength in the wrong way. it is not trusted and fair for any country to petition anything to the justice of the US. international has the international justice not that of the US. so, your opion means that the US has right to force other nations to obey its rule. it clearly shows your are hegemonist

first of all, i am not a politician (I wish i was as they hearn heck a lot of money) i was a graduate in International Politic and my Wife is a PhD Researcher on East Asia Study with Lund University, normally i will ran to her for the answer to these question. But I won't this time as A. I feel i am more than qualified to answer and B she is working hard on her research atm.

okay, so why dont we talk about what the US did?

I always want to know why the US were univesial blamed by Asian country if something go down the drain. You need to know, US cannot have more control in the Asia, as they have already achieve status quo in the Asianic region

So, the asnwer to your question is NOTHING, nothing the US did will benefit more to the US more IF THE STATUS QUO in asia is disturbed.

The most benefitial situation to the US is let the Asia region stay as it is. Think about it, what is the key intererst of US in Asia? How many people are signed with Military or Economic Treaty to the US? And many deployment to the US are currently engage with the US? Tip the balance and the US will need to put in more efford to re-balance the whole situation.

The status quo is the main setting of the US policy at the Asian Region, Where uses Pakitan to tie down India, India to tie down China and so China won't try to gain more exposure in Asia and move in to the region of South Chinese Sea and the Whole Taiwan issue. In this tactics, both south Korea and Japan are not to tie down the Chinese, but rather a closer threat the US had (ie North Korea)

If you are a follower of the US North Eastern Asian Policy you will see the distinct different between country of South China Sea and Japan sea region. You will see a more direct apporach and direct cooperation with the country in Japan sea (S. Korea and Japan) rather than the SCS region (ie Pakistan and India) The reason why US do not want to engage or back the Japanese dispute is the same as US reluctant to sell arms to Pakistan even tho Pakistan is a major allied to our war in Afghanistan. If we back the dispute, or increase arms trade to pakistan, China and India will protest, and they will focus on particular part of a region instead of lock in a status quo with other region.

The status quo, coming from the hostility of Taiwan strait have been a long establishment to the US and you have to be really stupid to focus on one ally (Japan in this case) and break the long working status quo that will see the suffer of other US allied.

AS to why US hand the island back to Japan.

The problem is we have to hand back the island to somebody, the problem is, as the other poster said, Cairo Declaration does not include the Senkaku Island. So they are not part of Island that being return to their Rightful owner (All the island on the Declaration were return and not administrated by the US between 1940s-1950s)

The proble is China did not lodge a dispute to the UN by the time the US return the Island (They only lodge a clarafication of border to UN in 2012...not yet a dispute resolution report)

Even if the PRC have won the case of dispute, they still will not be the rightful owner and govern the island, on the border document, the PRC claim the island is a township of Toucheng, Yilan County, Taiwan Province, well, unless Chinese have control of Taiwan, taiwanese, not Chinese will have the governing right to the island according to the UN document. The Chinese also publicly claim they are claiming the island on Taiwan Behalf.

Say what you want (YUou can say Taiwan is part of China PRC) but the truth is Taiwan is currently not govern by the Chinese Government, so i very much doubt the claim will help anything with the Chinese. Unless they want to start reconquer Taiwan to echo this dispute, China will NOT have control of Senkaku even they have won.

See my post on another article for more detail
http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...enkakus-japanese-territory-4.html#post3537809

 

[jhungary]

At this point in time there's no need to debate what the Americans have to gain when the Chinese and the Japanese are at each others' throats. Everybody should know the answer.

It's always the US's 'national interests' to control Japan or anyone else for that matter. I don't exactly know why's that but that's what she wants and she'll go a long way to achieve that goal. Perhaps a new form of colonialism is the best answer.

Let me put it another way. Why is China rise is a threat to American's 'national interests'? If not then what does she mean by 'Asia pivot' and has had many recent military dealings with China's neighbors: Vietnam, Thailand, Myanmar, Bangladesh, India and etc. How can China be a threat to the US where she's safe and secured in a faraway land. Why she needs hundreds of military bases around the world just to protect herself and her allies.

Who and where these threats come from for her to justify spending hundreds of billions of dollars annually for protections? With her military infrastructure already in place a tenth of that expenditure should be enough to protect all her interests from the perceived threats she's getting.

The only explanation I can find is that she wants more than protection, she wants to control. She wants to control every single nation in the world. The funny thing is, for the average Americans, the cost's far out weighted the benefits in terms of resources and lives.

What you are referring is called "Expansionism" which used or Projection of Militaristic or Economical power to control or expan their globe of influence. US have been doing this since WW2.

The things is, with the US Expansion, the other side not necessary enemy of the US, look at how French Ceded Point Du Hoc to the US in the late 1970s, will you call French is a enemy of the United States, and how French endanger the US national interest...?

Expanionism is what a unique action that only a superpower will do simply because they need to expand (Either by controlling or influencing outside their home of influence) the problem is every superpower does it, and if China were to become a superpower, they will need to do it too. By then there will be alot of voice against china in the international politic. Expanionism is based on the fact that no one country or superpower can survive if they were to left alone, Allied is power, the more allied you have, the more power you get, that's how expansionism work. You don't have to like it, but you need to choose side.

 

[grandmaster]

...blah blah (stupid stuff)
Even if the PRC have won the case of dispute, they still will not be the rightful owner and govern the island, on the border document, the PRC claim the island is a township of Toucheng, Yilan County, Taiwan Province, well, unless Chinese have control of Taiwan, taiwanese, not Chinese will have the governing right to the island according to the UN document. The Chinese also publicly claim they are claiming the island on Taiwan Behalf.

blah blah (stupid stuff)...

blah blah (stupid stuff)
....
See my post on another article for more detail
1960 Chinese map depicted Senkakus as Japanese territory

so you admitted that japan is not the rightful owner of the island either, but taiwan. either way, you have admitted to us that US did handle it not to the right owner. you mentioned so much about conquer of china to taiwan but not any conquer of japan to the whole asia to hightlight the robber nature of japan? of course i know you fear that point will hurt your pursuasion to us!

why should i read the biased article of yours to waste my time?
there is another map of china which said the totally opposite, and i believe this map more!
Evidence shows Diaoyu Dao is China's territory|Comment|chinadaily.com.cn

did you read the history of how Japan robbed the island? if not then your or your wife PhD degree is just a BS scam to us!
Theft of Diaoyu Islands won't be concealed - People's Daily Online

 

[jhungary]

BEWARE OF TROLL [ALL JUNK]

First of all, appalling English coming from a guy with Canada Tag, i have to read it 3 times to composit an idea of what you are talking about. FYI, in the future, you should write in Pakistani and i would rather use a free online translator rather than read your stupid junk.

Secondly, you have a big month, well, it will be good if you use it to settle your small tribal dispute in Pakistan, but this is of no use of International Forum.

LOL I will not answer to you nor waste my energy to illustrate my point as you are a obiviously a troll, what i don't understand is how you, a pakistani troll moving all the way to mind a business that ABSOLUTELY NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. IS it high to megearly bashing an american? Or you just have a need to express what is in your mouth?

Well, if you want me to say Japan robbed the Island or America is a no good devil so you can sleep better at night, well, then here i go, yes japanese robbed the island and all American are evil, we should all learn how pakistani work and work like a horse and earn a megear pay everyday. That does not make it truth.

Here sir, is my answer, i no longer want to reply anything from you as whatever i said, i better talk to a pile of cow feces than talking to you. Good day

 

[grandmaster]

BS scam....International Forum....
LOL I will not answer to you nor waste my energy to illustrate my point as you are a obiviously a troll,..
..BS...

this is international forum. not the forum only for cleaning japanese facist and robber images without all the truth history behind. that is big troll from journalist receive money from japanese! i know you wont have enough energy to research and illustrate all truth of how japan invaded and robbedthese islands. without such energy, stop trolling is a good strategy to retreat