Since Earliest Historical Times Hinduism Was Never Popular in Pakistan

[INDIC]

The deity in the seal(also seen in other numerous seal) is more likely Rudra which looks similar to Shiva standing in arc of fire in modern times.

 

[INDIC]

Which again proves foreign ancestry, one just cant deny Vedic Aryans enslavement of native Indians in current age.

You still failed to explain if there was any enslavement then how the low caste Hindus were found with high percentage of ANI genes while all high caste Hindus have high percentage of ASI genes. Also, while explaining your crappy theory, you also failed to mention many people carry ANI genes from non-Rigvedic people like Scythians, Kushans, Huns, Greeks etc.

@Indischer what a view if this guy believe ANI enslaved ASI how both North Indians-South Indians or low caste Hindus-High caste Hindus ended up carrying significant percentage of both ANI and ASI genes.

 

[Indischer]

You still failed to explain if there was any enslavement then how the low caste Hindus were found with high percentage of ANI genes while all high caste Hindus have high percentage of ASI genes. Also, while explaining your crappy theory, you also failed to mention many people carry ANI genes from non-Rigvedic people like Scythians, Kushans, Huns, Greeks etc.

@Indischer what a view if this guy believe ANI enslaved ASI how both North Indians-South Indians or low caste Hindus-High caste Hindus ended up carrying significant percentage of both ANI and ASI genes.

The person with whom you're debating has a very warped view about Indians. Let it be

Firstly, the designations of ANI and ASI are themselves controversial. The Negroid populations of the Andaman populations were initially considered to be pure ASI. But this is a conjecture at best.They were designated as ASI only because they do not carry any ANI genes in them, not because they were the ASI. Studies on the Onge show that they've been isolated on these islands for close to 60000 years now! Every tribe, every caste genetically tested on the Indian mainland has both ASI and ANI genes.

The Caste system was flexible for a long time. It initially started off as a Merit-based system, where a person could move between castes if he was found competent/incompetent. It got rigidized over time, maybe due to the selfish motives of a few High-Caste populations. But because enough intermingling had already taken place by then, people of ANI & ASI genetic admixtures are found to have occupied all regions and all castes of India.

 

[INDIC]

The person with whom you're debating has a very warped view about Indians. Let it be

Firstly, the designations of ANI and ASI are themselves controversial. The Negroid populations of the Andaman populations were initially considered to be pure ASI. But this is a conjecture at best.They were designated as ASI only because they do not carry any ANI genes in them, not because they were the ASI. Studies on the Onge show that they've been isolated on these islands for close to 60000 years now! Every tribe, every caste genetically tested on the Indian mainland has both ASI and ANI genes.

The Caste system was flexible for a long time. It initially started off as a Merit-based system, where a person could move between castes if he was found competent/incompetent. It got rigidized over time, maybe due to the selfish motives of a few High-Caste populations. But because enough intermingling had already taken place by then, people of ANI & ASI genetic admixtures are found to have occupied all regions and all castes of India.

I read the studies, it was saying ASI were distantly related to Native Andamanese. As for that wannabe snowwhite guy shan I always wonder how can a person go to extreme to shamelessly mock their own ancestry and bloodline from ASI. How percentage of ancestry even matter in real life when one talk about his ancestors.

 

[Indischer]

I read the studies, it was saying ASI were distantly related to Native Andamanese. As for that wannabe snowwhite guy shan I always wonder how can a person go to extreme to shamelessly mockery their own ancestry and bloodline from ASI. How percentage of ancestry even matter in real life when one talk about his ancestors.

As I said, no use getting into an argument with an irrational man. Let him be in his own bubble. And yes, the native andamanese many have been just one of the many groups that originally populated India along it's southern coastline. They certainly weren't the only group. You might be interested in knowing the Dravidians themselves are speculated to have come from a region called Elam in Southern Iran. the Elamo-Dravidian Language hypothesis, though not proven, says that the extinct language called Elamite may have been related to Dravidian language family.

 

[Ajatashatru]

The IVC existed before Bactria and Andronovo. Therefore if there was a migration that took place, it were the IVC people who may have migrated first towards those areas as they already traded with these areas and the IVC artifacts were found in those areas. Later in history the Kushan empire who were Bacrtians did occypy large tracts of IVC landmass and even upto Gangetic plains. However, the Kushans came much after the demise of IVC. Even Talageri states that the Indo-Iranians were occupying areas of Punjab when the battle between purus and bharats was fought. Rig Vida's advent has been recorded after the fading out of the IVC. If at all the IVC people migrated, they migrated in Large numbers to Ur in Mespotamia around 2000-1900 BC and much later around 600 BC a Meluhha Kingdom was found in Palestine on the border of Egypt. An Egyptian King defeated them in a battle and the inscriptions are available testifying this fact.

How was any of this intended as a reply to my post? I said Indo-Aryans arrived after IVC and that most of Indians and Pakistanis are Indo-Aryans. This fact is well known among historians. Intermingling of Indo-Aryans with Dravidians created the classical Indian culture.

 

[Carl Johnson]

You really are retarded as expected, chura and chamar are dalits. Im not insulting anyone, im just calling 98% Indians chamars, its your caste mentality that says its insulting. You being chamar should be proud of your dalit roots. We have dalits convert in Pakistan as well, Christians and Mochis are dalit converts, they combined make 3% of our population.

As i said before Vedic Aryans completly fucked your ancestors minds and now you hate your self, there is nothing wrong with being chamar. So you used chamar as insult which mean you hate your self because after all you are UP chammar who look like European.

Do you even know anything about caste system you blithering idiot ? maybe because 98% of indic pakistanis are all choora converts with a few chamars here and there so all low castes are same to you .those 3% are just non muslims . what about a vast majority of choora muslim pakeez?

i actually called pakistanis chooras not chamars and did not use it as an insult . Dalits are 15% of india but 98% of pakistan.

vedic people fucked pakistani choora ancestors not indians . There is nothing wrong in being called a choora .why are you feeling insulted . vedic people were from modern day india .There are four vedas in total and only a part of rig veda was written in present day pakistan . the rest 3 were written in modern day india also a major part of rig veda. so no way the vedic people were pakeez . Also its written in rig veda that vedic people considered river saraswati as mother and claimed to have descended from its banks . Saraswati used to flow in modern india and saraswat brahmins are called purest brahmins . So how can vedic people be pakistanis you wannabe aryan.

What is Indian civilization? Legacy of few Vedic Aryans who were from outside India. Last known homeland of Rig Vedic people was Pakistan, no one knows from where they come from before that. I dont know why 98% of Indians are proud of civilization which brought misery to their ancestors and many suffer even now because of that.

why are 98% pakistanis proud of of civilization which brought misery to their ancestors and many suffer even now because of that. Don't claim our ivc . pakistanis were most prolly dravids . the existence of a dravidian language in pakistan proves it .

 

[Nassr]

How was any of this intended as a reply to my post? I said Indo-Aryans arrived after IVC and that most of Indians and Pakistanis are Indo-Aryans. This fact is well known among historians. Intermingling of Indo-Aryans with Dravidians created the classical Indian culture.

If the Indo-Aryan migrations started after the IVC, where did the original people of IVC go. These people were there before the arrival of Indo-Aryans. Did they vanish in thin air. Yes there was a sizeable number that migrated to Mesopotamia and much later moved to Egyptian/Palestinian border, however majority did stay back. I am not concerned with creation of Indian culture. I am concerned with the history and geography of the original land occupied by the Meluhha of the IVC, whose descendants are the majority Pakistanis. Punjab and parts of Rajasthan and Gujarat were IVC lands. Some of these areas became part of Republic of India when the British left in 1947. The core of IVC, as in earlier times and now, remains in Pakistan.

Rig Veda which became the basis of Vedic culture emanated after fading out of the IVC and is monotheistic in its pronouncements. Later and over a period of time, it was diluted with emergence of Hinduism as a polytheistic culture. The people of IVC were monotheists and largely followed monotheistic forms of religion even after fading out of IVC and never remained majority Hindus. When Buddhism spread, the core of IVC became a majority Buddhist population till gradually its population converted to Islam. The problem arises when Indian Hindus include Sikhism, Buddhism, Jainism and other monotheistic religious formats as parts of broader Hinduism or are sects of Hindus. Only Hindus believe this and others do not. To make it more palatable, this broader Hinduistic form later took the shape of Indic, Dharmic, Bharati, Hindutva etc and so on. And the efforts still continue when such pronouncements were subtly made part of Indian Constitution and stamped with various decisions of India Supreme Court. Unfortunate as its, this is how Indian Hindus attempt to exercise their domination on the minorities within India and challenge the sovereignty and separate status of independent states located around India.

Pakistan had a different history since the earliest times as we remained an independent geographical and political entity for majority of its known history since over 9000 years, and we are proud of our history.

Do you even know anything about caste system you blithering idiot ? maybe because 98% of indic pakistanis are all choora converts with a few chamars here and there so all low castes are same to you .those 3% are just non muslims . what about a vast majority of choora muslim pakeez?

i actually called pakistanis chooras not chamars and did not use it as an insult . Dalits are 15% of india but 98% of pakistan.

vedic people fucked pakistani choora ancestors not indians . There is nothing wrong in being called a choora .why are you feeling insulted . vedic people were from modern day india .There are four vedas in total and only a part of rig veda was written in present day pakistan . the rest 3 were written in modern day india also a major part of rig veda. so no way the vedic people were pakeez . Also its written in rig veda that vedic people considered river saraswati as mother and claimed to have descended from its banks . Saraswati used to flow in modern india and saraswat brahmins are called purest brahmins . So how can vedic people be pakistanis you wannabe aryan.



why are 98% pakistanis proud of of civilization which brought misery to their ancestors and many suffer even now because of that. Don't claim our ivc . pakistanis were most prolly dravids . the existence of a dravidian language in pakistan proves it .

Majority of the low cast Hindus who converted to Islam or Christianity were from the geographical areas which are now part of Republic of India. As majority of current Pakistanis were never Hindus in the first place, how could they be from Hindu low casts.

At the time of partition some of these people did migrate to Pakistan and are as good Pakistanis and Muslims as any other Pakistani is, contrary to the discriminatory treatment meted out to Indian untouchables and other religious minorities.

 

[INDIC]

As I said, no use getting into an argument with an irrational man. Let him be in his own bubble. And yes, the native andamanese many have been just one of the many groups that originally populated India along it's southern coastline. They certainly weren't the only group. You might be interested in knowing the Dravidians themselves are speculated to have come from a region called Elam in Southern Iran. the Elamo-Dravidian Language hypothesis, though not proven, says that the extinct language called Elamite may have been related to Dravidian language family.

I have read about Elamo-Dravidian theory but I don't believe its true, ASI are found to be completely native to India.

 

[Indischer]

I have read about Elamo-Dravidian theory but I don't believe its true, ASI are found to be completely native to India.

I too don't have much confidence in it. But interestingly, the Dravidians are also classified as a Cauasian group that also has some Australoid admixture while the Andamanese tribes, though seen as the possible locus of ASI, are Negritos. This suggests that the Caucasian intermingling happened way before the Aryan migration and hence the actual Dravidians may also have been a caucasian tribe which entered India much before than the Aryans. This inference lends some credence to the supposedly Elamite link to Dravidians.

 

[INDIC]

I too don't have much confidence in it. But interestingly, the Dravidians are also classified as a Cauasian group that also has some Australoid admixture while the Andamanese tribes, though seen as the possible locus of ASI, are Negritos. This suggests that the Caucasian intermingling happened way before the Aryan migration and hence the actual Dravidians may also have been a caucasian tribe which entered India much before than the Aryans. This inference lends some credence to the supposedly Elamite link to Dravidians.

I don't think this theory is true otherwise there would be presence of Haplogroup H outside India same like R1a is present across East Europe.

 

[Indischer]

I don't think this theory is true otherwise there would be presence of Haplogroup H outside India same like R1a is present across East Europe.

Yup! And since Haplogroup H is much much older than haplogroup R1a, it further proves that Dravidians were in India far before the Aryans. But the Elamo-Dravidian hypothesis is more rooted in phonological similarities than genetic similarities. Simple examples often cited in it's support are that the Tamil Word of Homeland = Elam, Elamite word for bearer of news kutira, appearing in Proto Dravidian as kutiray
'horse' (kudire in kannada), word for sesame seeds Elu in Elamite = Ellu in Dravidian etc.

A similar analogy is Hindi being spoken by all Indians irrespective of their genetic heritage today. This model might explain why the phonological similarities exist without any genetic similarties.

But as I said before, I too am very sceptical of this theory.

 

[Proudpakistaniguy]

Anyway, the current Pakistan is not about geography. It is about the ideology.

The ideology of two nation theory, the ideology of rejection of their own history and identity and assuming a fake one, the identity of calling their own ancestors jahils and making heroes out of nomadic invaders who killed and raped and enslaved them, the ideology that makes them a separate "nation" as soon as they convert to a foreign ideology, assume a different identity, history, worldview...

Sometimes this gets too much for even some of them. So they need to get into these pathetic mental gymnastic to try to claim a past that they earlier rejected and that has in turn rejected them for good.

Now they are just Muslim converts imagining themselves to be Arabs, Turks, Central Asians, Afghans, Persians and sundry others. Anything but native to the land.

They have no other identity or past. Even the current identity is a fake one and drives such threads.

You are having pain in your backside. Hindus were and are jahil and you are great example of it. Hindus were slaved by everyone not just Arabs and only you can be proud of such beliefs who teach cowardice . you accept that Hindus got killed, enslaved and raped in the hands of few invaders .shame on you coward hindus who could not defend and give protection to fellow hindus .

Yea our primary identity is Islam and it has nothing to do with confusions. We would love to give up those cultural practices and beliefs which contradict to our religious belief. We dont give a fack about who practiced what thousand years ago. we love what we are practicing now

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

They still don't get it from 1971 do they.

Anyway, my concern is all about refugees from Pakistan migrating to India.

 

[Proudpakistaniguy]

Majority of the low cast Hindus who converted to Islam or Christianity were from the geographical areas which are now part of Republic of India. As majority of current Pakistanis were never Hindus in the first place, how could they be from Hindu low casts.

At the time of partition some of these people did migrate to Pakistan and are as good Pakistanis and Muslims as any other Pakistani is, contrary to the discriminatory treatment meted out to Indian untouchables and other religious minorities.

Hindus can insult their own kind in attempt of insulting Pakistani and to make themselves superior. I like when they insult Hindus or hindusim no matter who they were. I think ex president/scientist of India was probably coward dalit converted into Islam and so are those showbiz Muslim celebrities and Hindus rajpouts haha

Man its your patience to be calm with such low lives