Silent Buildup

[Sine Nomine]

he he he munna you still dont get it ... koi gall nahi twadee koi galtee nai

Kaka tenu aye bol kai changa luga tai kush reh.

1.1965 me indian army Lahore me tea/nashta nahi kia
2.hum tashkent me jeet gaye

Withdraw but still isn't it worth shame that you failed teaching a nation 7 time smaller a lesson

3.1971 me sari galti USA ki thi kyonki usne 7th fleet nahi bheji & hindus ne hamme alag kiya hum masoom the

As usual kaka jee wo civil war thee,1 Pakistani kai Mukabkey mai 50 dushman.Har gaye koi masla nahi

4.1999 me hum jeet gaye per nawaz shareef ne harra ditta

Bharat nai apna zere qabza ilaka wapis lai liya lekin un mountain div walo sai poachna kai kitno ke balli kai baad aesa hova.

5. now abhinandan & tea was fantastic & we shot down imaginarry Su30

Su-30 choro lekin Tea was Fantastic is ke video bhe hai

well what dose this give your nation look at the tabdeeli and look at what people are going through specially those running your air force & army mantaince

since i get banned way too eraly i better not say anything here if you have anyone working there go ask for true opinion from them and what is really hapenning im sure you will feel revolutionised

Baka sub kuj theek hai par angreezi tai reham kar tai hoor apney Mulk da hal vekh har mouamley vich guttar ban giya hai.

I knew you were still here.

An interesting response.

Coolest cat on the blvd and I got under his skin as well.

That made it two in a day.

Mean i have not lost it.

Once he was a tolerable poster off late his mind has been rotten,now he tows lines of BJP media cell.

 

[Rank]

I knew you were still here.

An interesting response.

Coolest cat on the blvd and I got under his skin as well.

That made it two in a day.

Mean i have not lost it.

I have updated my 1st post (Please read the last part).

 

[Raider 21]

Hi,

These are indeed very concerning times for the region---.

India is going to open up a new front or multiple fronts at that---that is for sure---. Kashmir is going to get snowed in soon---. So that flank if it stays secure would help india in other locations---.

27th did nothing to india other than embarrass it in front of the world---. Paf told the IAF what its shortcoming were and they will thank Paf by showing them that they have taken care of those short comings---.

That show of power by the Paf was a Tactical blunder and disasterous---all the tactical information that was released---that was totally outrageous---.

There is a lot that cannot be said, but trust me where I can say where PAF are aware of exactly along the lines what you have here and their methods and thought processes are far different than what they were years ago. I'm very much surprised of a lot of the details that are not being shown in public. If you are fortunate enough to hear and see what they pulled off, it is something else...will you leave you wondering. Ask no questions as I'll provide no answers about it.

On a side note, you brought up great points.

Cheers!!!

 

[AMRAAM]

He use to be sane member, sharing nice songs and films but seems he has lost the plot.

I was wondering earlier how he managed to get 7 positive ratings with such a narrow mind and behavior.

 

[PakShaheen79]

I guess everyone is missing the point in my first post. I can understand the war with India in a long run aren’t favorable for Pakistan. My point was Pakistan might use its max capability and force to damage India’s military infra as much as they can whether the offensive or defensive mode. Does India has the capability to stop full-blow adversary attack? I guess NO!

In reply of Black Bold Text
-----------------------------
Yes we can. But that will not be achieved through any conventional or non-conventional weapons. We will have to be smarter than that. Out of box thinking is the key. Keeping in mind the growing asymmetry in balance of power in the region, Pakistan's best bet is what is partially depicted on 27th Feb. PAF is the key but within PAF, our major focus must be to enhance ECM/ECCM capabilities and EMP weapons. One single strike can practically disable all enemy aircraft in multiple airbases located near by.


"NEMP weapons are designed to maximize such EMP effects as the primary damage mechanism, and some are capable of destroying susceptible electronic equipment over a wide area.

A high-altitude electromagnetic pulse (HEMP) weapon is a NEMP warhead designed to be detonated far above the Earth's surface. The explosion releases a blast of gamma rays into the mid-stratosphere, which ionizes as a secondary effect and the resultant energetic free electrons interact with the Earth's magnetic field to produce a much stronger EMP than is normally produced in the denser air at lower altitudes." from Wikipedia.

Problem is, an EMP strike is a nuclear strike with detonation taking place at high altitude. So it is a dangerous proposition as enemy can retaliate considering it a standard nuclear strike on ground. Though Non-Nuclear EMP options are there but I have not idea if they have been weaponized as yet plus their efficacy is very limited compared to NEMP devices. Still, a careful planning can make it work. Have few crazy ideas about that, but will never share here.

Directed Energy Weapons (DEW) are another area of EW warfare where we must work as it can cut our work short.I still remember PA did an exercise where lasers were used to disable enemy tanks and we discuss that in details. https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pakistan-army-has-tank-jamming-technology.424064/
Hopefully, people are still working on the tech. No reason to believe otherwise.

That is the top most spectrum of modern 6 dimensional warfare as defined by US DoD.
1- EW (Spectrum Warfare)
2- Cyber Warfare
3-Air
4-Space
5-Sea
6-Land
(I have put it in reverse order from where I see it taking affect). Now if we see from top, war fought in top 2 levels will end in minutes or hours maximum and if they continue beyond that, aggressor will capture/destroy enemy completely as the victim of first two will be a setting duck. 3 and 4 work in conjunction and can make work short but expansive and can work for a bigger enemy as it can field more asset in space and air than a smaller nation (Doesn't matter how good an aircraft or pilot is, it simply cannot be at 2 places at the same time). 5 and 6 are where our enemy clearly enjoy numerical and qualitative superiority. By looking at this list, one thing is crystal that if Pakistan is going to get any real hope in a war like situation to wield a complete control over theater of war, we will have to develop our capabilities in EW and Cyber warfare! In simplistic terms, Pakistan first need to redefine the concept of max capability. We have ignored Space for decades and now enemy has clear advantage there. We did exhibit EW tactics more efficiently and got result to stun the enemy, that's where our advantage lies and we must capitalize on it. Leaving our plans on heavy hitting like in 60's and 70's is not going to get us anywhere. Our first below must be completely invisible and decisive. Bring tangible forces afterwards ... And that's military domain alone. There are economic, social, diplomatic domains of war and post-war scenario if I touch upon that, this post will never end

In reply to text in red
-----------------------

Hard to answer, as it is not clear who the adversary is? Full-Blow attack ... I don't think any country can counter that including US. After Chinese advancements in Quantum computing, the entire world is at their mercy. Lookheed Martin and some other strategic level entities were well aware of what Chinese were up to, so they moved to Quantum computing as well. Now Pakistan can leverage great support from China in this domain (i.e. Cyber defense / offense) and no one will be able to tell if China actively helped Pakistan. If US/India and many others are worried about growing strategic partnership between Islamabad and Beijing, it is not misplaced at all considering where it can lead Pakistan.

 

[Wrath]

its you who is using racist words against me when cant prove me wrong by facts i had just given you facts

now let me tell you very clear IAF & IA is not what your ISPR fed media tarzinigars tell you on TV Talkshows or what is told in social media its something very diffrent and thats why despite all Mig21 & some other crashes niether USAF nor PLAAF and also PAF /PA take india lightly other wise had be so weak many in owr nieghbourhood had already attacked us long long back but they dint ever wonderred why ...? think about it

First I couldn't understand your second paragraphś last two lines so elaborate and IA and whole of India, is worse than what we are taught. Yes I did use racist words . Well your facts aren't exactly my facts, just like my truth is not your truth. So be realistic and let the delusions aside.

 

[Wrath]

well dear as i said 26-27 was a recce mission of saughts we took it as a readiness checking mission of sorts and used owr least cabale POINT DEFNCE fighter @Mig21 aganist your best fighter and we laready already accepted the loopholes in owr defncive shield

now the helicopter we lost was due to the ilfated commander of the Mi17 had switechd off the FFI(friends&foe identification becon) and was too close to the border and since both IAF & PAF use Mi17 air defnce shot it down as its programmed to do it ..... and for that we removed the area commander of the IAF who had orderred that helicopter that day in that area and its not possible it was not in his knowledge about the switching off the becon that costed lifes of those airmen and even if it was a mistake it has to have some responsibility and that person along with his team is court martialed while those died in the mishap have been given state honours and full compensation


it was not PAF which made IAF shoot its helicopter down but idiocity of some dump *** in control room

That's all what your media and people taught you, I can say that too.
BTW what about IAF planes dropping from Skies everyday, can't you maintain the poor birds?

 

[Wrath]

now that part apart tell me what PAF lost in the battle over its skies apart from all the bravado it took just 25-35 miles from your capital and within 50miles from all your major air bases & 80 miles from your GHQ

best part for owr Mirages was they came and left unhurt even if we take pakistani story they dint do any harm you aknowledge they came so deep in and went unharmed were was your air defnce and where were your air force sleeping

now look at this way we know where are your best squaderns and where is your best air defnce concentrations we also know what you can do at best and what your limitations so we will make your PAF and PA fight on owr choice of battlefield on owr terms and any General knows what that mean's

First you need to know that IAF used a diversion tactics, they attacked from three sectors and got to enter from on and they never got deep inside our territory, only 4-5 kms, and they are faster than the speed of light and they couldn't hit their imaginary targets becoz they were chased of by PAF. We let them go unharmed to make plot for the attack next day .

 

[SIPRA]

BTW what about IAF planes dropping from Skies everyday, can't you maintain the poor birds?

You are mistaken. That is for the sake of practicing pilots ejection.

 

[Wrath]

he he he well well your forget your DG ISPR's firt briefing on 27th feb when he said PAF had captured TWO IAF PILOTS one was Abhinandan and the other one was in Field Genral Hospital who was beaten up by Azad Kashmir Mobb thinking he was a IAF Pilot but later turned owt he was a PAF PILOT NOW TELL ME WHERE DID THAT PAF PILOT CAME WAS HE PILION RIDDING ABHINANDAN'S Mig21


your a funny guy do you even know that Indian communitactions cannot be Jammed by likes of pakistan as they are all sattelite based (only Mig21 dose not have sattelite based LINK its retro fitted in selected fighter's and was not there in abhinandan's fighter) but every other indian fighter even Jaguar's , LCA , UPG Mirage2000& UPGMig29, Su30MKI all have russian GLONASS & Indian IRNSS (GPS)& KU Band based(or whatever technical term they use for it) LINK which pakistan cannot jamm

now you had technical superiroty till you had USA giving you inputs for F16 but for long even they are chocked but we are getting it

you have no idea whats there across the border in terms of Radar or so called electronic wrfare suites and jammers both on the ground and in the air and up in the space

hint: we have multiple Radar sniffing stattelites and sattelites that can read time on your wrist watch even through clouds and during night and even in sand storm

There were total 3 pilots, one abhi and other two were the pilots if SU-30 who were beaten by mob and as India didn't acknowledge them so they were handed over to India through Red Cross.

 

[Wrath]

Guru Dutt.....Tum PDF per akar iss tara josh martey ho jesey kisi pinjrey mein bundh kisi janwar ko thori dher key liye azad kiya jaye......woh khoob bhagey kodey aur uchley ga aur akhir thak haar ker apni jaga ajaye ga.....bhai akhir kiya sabit karna chatey ho, jin key paley kuch hota hey unko zahir nai karna parta.....agar PDF nai hota tu tumarey awaz koun sunta.....stop behaving like an Indian farmer in a flour mill......cold start.....cross border raids....surgical strikes....hot persuits..... aur akhir 27 Februray ko sari hawa nikal gayee.....sou sunhar ki aur eik lohar ki.#
Wesey tum adat say majboor ho, aur fazool mein kuch na kuch bolna hota hey....

Iss bc KO ban krwa Bhai....

 

[StormBreaker]

It does.. India has a nuclear tria... how you can target or neutralized entire India strategic capability? Similarly Pakistan’s SF is mostly based on TEL mobility, you can fire from anywhere not a stand alone single launch pad... my ref in this perspective... the system is spread all over...

We are not yet a proper TRIAD. Guzara hai bas. Torpedos not that effective combined with sea skimming LACMs

 

[StormBreaker]

IAF qualitative and quantitative edge has existed since parliament attack, Mumbai attack, uri and so on... still failed... I am not estimating IAF but what we have seen ... pure failure... Indian Airforce is literally lacking in something which they even don't know how to overcome..

Hi,
As for the “Full spectrum Offense, point to be noted with regards to PAF is that PAF won’t be focusing on JUST aerial warfare, nope, that would be a secondary. Primary goal would be STRIKE, SEAD, CAS, AAD for land troops and armour, as well as countering the enemy fighters in HEAVY numbers as well as facing a tough BVR environment. This will require at least 1/4th of our total fleet to be present on offense while others are in air as well. It will be a MULTIROLE environment in huge spectrum with expectations of heavy enemy aircrafts UNLESS the aircrafts have been “pillowed while sleep”. IAF will come in huge, they will give it maximum they can at least time, this is when PAF might consider a tactical retreat to lure them to our grounds just to bring them in close to our other fleet which is in air along with a heavy EW environment by our AWACS. Retreating one’s can refuel in air/land to get loaded up again, while the others engage them to get a better outcome being a defensive force once again IN AIR. However, the retreat might push IAF to send in M2K/MKI/Jaguars as well as IA helos to ambush our advancing infantry and armoury which will definitely result in a BAD outcome. This is where we fell short in heavy Air Defence environment, AD should have been the top most priority of PAF and PA since forever but no use of blaming now. Even though AD have quite a less success rate compared to BVR/WVR, they do cast fear into the enemy hearts and planners are also left with even narrower options to plan out.

PAF has always got lucky, 27 Feb was also a lucky yet successful encounter. Now as per what we have seen on pdf and other platforms, PAF played a clever game by getting close, release the GBs into India territory, then wait for them to come back, once they are in our tracking range, send in the BVRs and boom !!!
But an offensive would be a whole different situation and Light weight fighters such as Thunders should be at least 280-300 in numbers to think of such a strategy of all out offense. One Thunder can barely bag enough Anti ground+BVR+WVR weaponry to go on such a mission so dedicated aircrafts are more suitable in this case. It is Air superiority that will judge the overall outcome in the end. God forbid, PAF losses such, our ground forces and tanks would be reduced to nothing while inside IOK.

That is why i still believe J-10C has a special requirement for PAF and was always the best fit for PAF but we just don’t do things the easy and good way. J-10C is a highly potent Anti ground role as well as Air superiority roles fighter. Even in multirole mode, it can bag enough to give a balance to both capabilities.

Going on an unending blind offense would result in total loss of valuable assets of Tri forces.

Stay on defensive, if they try to play with you, Play the China card, bring in advance weapons on lease from China, Enemy will be shook from core, this is where they will retreat or cry at international forum.

As for your concern regarding IAF weakness,
As per my strong belief, it’s totally a WORST CASE OF MANAGEMENT AND LEADERSHIP/COMMAND. Either they are played orphan in budget distribution or they lack competent Air Command chiefs as well as coordination and preparedness. Remember, these all weaknesses are short term and can be taken care off if really dedicated. We must worry once if these are really taken care off.

 

[Baltistan scouts]

If india does attack across ib as it will pakistan should not go on defensive but to carry attacks to capture indian territory. Eg india attack towards multan should be countered by concentrated efforts by pak to capture jaisalmer and jodpur and make india break off own attack.pakistan should prioritise at present before any aggression by india to destroy loc fence by bombing it to nothing all along loc and push through mujahideen from freedom groups especially syed sallahudin in the hundreds. Pakistan should concentrate on supplying weapons in large numbers anti tank missiles and stingers for freedom fighters to use

 

[loanranger]

Hit them hard early and then defend dogedly.