Should we make a Petition to change the Devanagari script of Bangla!?

[INDIC]

Before resorting to personal attacks, please tell me what the individuals or Empires I mentioned have in common with the people who inhabit Bangladesh?

That was a sarcasm, I believe.

 

[Joe Shearer]

At least make your reply relevant to the context.

That makes it serious.

Now, can one bear to be serious across all the interventions on this thread? Or should one be selectively so?

 

[INDIC]

No, Indic. Kalu has produced some brilliant arguments.

Lallu miah mainly posts garbage, your comment seems like a miracle.

 

[Trev]

That makes it serious.

Now, can one bear to be serious across all the interventions on this thread? Or should one be selectively so?

I'm confused, pardon my lack of ability to comprehend sarcasm.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Lallu miah mainly posts garbage, your comment seems like a miracle.

Please believe me, his intervention was learned and weighty, So, too, the other very rude gentleman. I have gained immensely from this thread. They might both of them have been clowning around deliberately on other threads. On this one, they are the heavyweights.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Wow; this thread has certainly gained in academic weight.
But coming back to the crux of the matter---------------- has that petition to change the script from Devnagari taken off? I had signed for it, with great expectations.
Or do I have to now wait for another petition to change the script to Braille ?????
That may well be more appropriate.........

 

[Dillinger]

Wow; this thread has certainly gained in academic weight.
But coming back to the crux of the matter---------------- has that petition to change the script from Devnagari taken off? I had signed for it, with great expectations.
Or do I have to now wait for another petition to change the script to Braille ?????
That may well be more appropriate.........

Aye, there be truth in what you say.

 

[khair_ctg]

India (pre-independence) was the largest melting-pot of cultures in the world (invasions, settlements,etc)
Your Bengalis look exactly like our Bengalis, I am sure there are some muslims of mid-estern descent, but majority is racially similar.

All the south-asian countries have very racially diverse people on the whole. In India there are people darker than the darkest people in the world and fairer than the fairest. Not that it matters.

Same goes for languages, Bengali is older than urdu and has no relation with Farsi.

you are very ignorant. Bengali used by Muslims includes a lot of Farsi, even after adopting so much of the Calcutta Tagore traditions. and Farsi was practised by Muslims in the region for a long time as more of a formal language in general, besides as a native language by some

 

[Joe Shearer]

Significant.

Indeed, the idea of Islam as a closed system with definite and rigid boundaries is itself largely a product of nineteenth- and twentieth-century reform movements, whereas for rural Bengalis of the premodern period, the line separating “non-Islam” from “Islam” appears rather to have been porous, tenuous, and shifting. Indeed, such boundaries seem hardly to have been present at all. Popular literature dating from the seventeenth century, such as the Mymensingh ballads cited above, evolved amongst communities of people who were remarkably open to accepting any sort of agency, human or superhuman, that might assist them in coping with life’s everyday problems.

 

[khair_ctg]

Every one of the copious citations made contradict the possibility of this Farsi-Urdu-Arabic dialect of Bengali. All we have on the other side of the balance is your 'arguably'. Not a shred of evidence; only the attempted re-creation of a non-existent past by Muslim searches for identity in the late 19th and early 20th centuries.

Farsi-Urdu-Arabic are still separate living languages of modern times. and we know what they constitute and what they are. and when we look at how a combination of them is used by Muslims of Bengal, or even by some non-Muslims of places of Bengal where there was high Muslim influence, IN their Bengali dialect, we are already looking at that composite you mentioned - and this is long after the Sanskritized Bengali came into practise as the only official Bengali language. besides that, Farsi-Urdu-Arabic as separate languages have had extensive practise right until the early part of East Pakistan era. and i don't need to cite references to merely comment on this ordinary fact from the lives of ordinary Bangladeshi people. still if you wanted to know more consult these if your time allows; the original references are stated there:

Musalmani Bangla and its transformation

Musalmani Bangla and its transformation | Page 10

 

[Joe Shearer]

you are very ignorant. Bengali used by Muslims includes a lot of Farsi, even after adopting so much of the Calcutta Tagore traditions. and Farsi was practised by Muslims in the region for a long time as more of a formal language in general, besides as a native language by some

Bengali used by which Muslims?

• The ashraf of the north-west and west, present from the 13th century ?
• The converts of the north-west and west, few in numbers and overcome by insecurity in the middle of a Hindu majority, dating from the 13th century?
• The ashraf of the imperial capital and of frontier towns and mint locations, dating from the 16th century?
• The huge number of farmers and villagers riding the eastward expansion of the rice belt, dating from the 16th through the 18th century?

 

[DRaisinHerald]

This thread is still running! That's some great obsession with words that come of the mouth
Those who want to speak Urdu, buy a qaida and start learning it. Simple?

 

[khair_ctg]

Bengali used by which Muslims?

• The ashraf of the north-west and west, present from the 13th century ?
• The converts of the north-west and west, few in numbers and overcome by insecurity in the middle of a Hindu majority, dating from the 13th century?
• The ashraf of the imperial capital and of frontier towns and mint locations, dating from the 16th century?
• The huge number of farmers and villagers riding the eastward expansion of the rice belt, dating from the 16th through the 18th century?

i would say that is a good point. i am familiar with multiple dialects but having had better orientation on the fourth. what almost all these dialects still have in common is each has a greater extent of Arabic and Islamicate influence compared to the Calcutta/formal Bengali

 

[Joe Shearer]

Farsi-Urdu-Arabic are still separate living languages of modern times. and we know what they constitute and what they are. and when we look at how a combination of them is used by Muslims of Bengal, or even by some non-Muslims of places of Bengal where there was high Muslim influence, IN their Bengali dialect, we are already looking at that composite you mentioned - and this is long after the Sanskritized Bengali came into practise as the only official Bengali language. besides that, Farsi-Urdu-Arabic as separate languages have had extensive practise right until the early part of East Pakistan era. and i don't need to cite references to merely comment on this ordinary fact from the lives of ordinary Bangladeshi people. still if you wanted to know more consult these if your time allows; the original references are stated there:

Musalmani Bangla and its transformation

Musalmani Bangla and its transformation | Page 10

But that is precisely the point. Musulmani Bangla cannot have been older than a few decades, because the attempt at creating it was an 18th century fit of the sulks. It was by no means a composite language built up during years of acculturation under the Turks, then under the native Bengali Sultanate of Bengal, then under the Afghan warlords, nor lastly under the Mughals.

It is never being denied that such a composite language exists today.

i would say that is a good point. i am familiar with multiple dialects but having had better orientation on the fourth. what almost all these dialects still have in common is each has a greater extent of Arabic and Islamicate influence compared to the Calcutta/formal Bengali

Sure.

There is no doubt that such a composite language exists, and that you are familiar with it, as are millions of Bangladeshis.

 

[khair_ctg]

This thread is still running! That's some great obsession with words that come of the mouth
Those who want to speak Urdu, buy a qaida and start learning it. Simple?

Yes simple and definitely a beneficial thing. i like Noori by the way