Should The U.N. Be Disbanded?

[Srinivas]

To Make UN which is formed in 1945 relevant in today's context of the world, Security council must be reformed including powers like India and Japan.

 

[gambit]

If the UN is disbanded, how will the US "install" democracy in other countries........

Never needed the UN's permission in the first place. But if the UN is dissolved, it will be easier to for dictatorships to install oppression, poverty, and misery anywhere. Do you approve ?

 

[gambit]

a nation of yes men, I always wondered about this, you should be someone who at least have some experience in the world.

Have you spent time with more than 5 people at a time? Can you get them to agree on everything? Or even somethings?

Shared moral values compels consent on principles, not necessarily in details because each country have its own interests. You are asking for an absurd standard, which is 100% agreement. NATO members often disagree back in the Cold War in details on budgets, status of forces agreements (SOFA), and so on. But no one disagree on the need for unity in the face of Soviet threat.

Also, since France questioned the Iraq war, what was the American response? I was there.

So what you were there ?

China is authoritarian democracy, not a dictatorship, it may sound weird or impossible, but that's only because English can't translate it. If you don't understand Chinese it's hard to explain, because the word democracy and authoritarian is different than the West. English doesn't have the right word, because the Western system of government never had a similar system, it's from Aristocratic rule, where noble birth is key that China discarded some 2000 years ago, to complete democracy and abolishing of privilege(or at least a reshuffle and less barrier to entry).

China isn't the USSR, the USSR is sort of seen as gloomy and while a military power house not so much an economic miracle. China is every bit as much and more of an economic power as the US, there still needs to be much work, but the signs are there. So while you may think China will be the same as USSR where we will rule over the third world, but here's where you are wrong, because we will break into the developed world in no more than 15 years. You don't need to believe me, I'm sure you can live another 15 to see it yourself.

China IS a dictatorship. A true democracy is where there are competing ideological platforms inside a country that while there might be political disagreements, those disagreements are not enough to fracture said country. At least first past the post (FPTP) system, like the US, have two parties. What does China have ? None.

China have low level democracy where the people might have the freedom to chose representatives more on technical issues than on ideological grounds. The word 'technical' here is meant to denote experience and expertise within boundaries created by a dictatorship, such as how long does a candidate have in being a city administrator, or a field specialist such as economics or science, or a foreign affairs experts. But none of the three dare enjoys oppositional ideologies forbade by the dictatorship.

Without the UN, China will be the default leader of third world countries, whether she likes or wants that position or not.

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

Never needed the UN's permission in the first place. But if the UN is dissolved, it will be easier to for dictatorships to install oppression, poverty, and misery anywhere. Do you approve ?

I agree. It would be much easier for the US to install democracy around the globe.

P.S. Dictatorships never needed UN approval.

 

[SinhalaBoy]

Bangladeshi brain fart thread.

 

[ViXuyen]

Are you stupid ? Must be.

An alliance is INHERENTLY discriminatory. North Korea called itself "Democratic People's Republic of Korea", so does that mean we have to admit NKR just because of that 'Democratic' tag ?

Like I said often: Communism do make people stupid.

And YOU are the proof.

So you're just an economic refugee/deserter; not because of democrappy

You just admit that democrappy fails; it fails over 3 billions people

 

[Dubious]

I agree. It would be much easier for the US to install democracy around the globe.

P.S. Dictatorships never needed UN approval.

Not that anything is getting in USA's way....nor anyone standing up against it

 

[applesauce]

As if the UN have any legitimacy today ?

much more legitimacy to act on international issues than any silly alliance you bring up which excludes half the world.

And please spare me any silly arguments about how America's scientific achievements came from only immigrants.

then dont bring up the topic genius

An alliance is not a group of 'yes men', but then again, I guess you would have no problems with a bunch of China's own 'yes men', no ? So do tell us, how many countries shares the same moral values as China ? But perhaps I am wrong here, China would definitely be the leader of an alliance of 'yes men' dictatorships. We wonder if YOU would leave the US for that paradise.

how about you don't stick words in other people's mouths,
point out where i said America's scientific achievements ONLY came from immigrants.

point out where i said i would be okay with china in an international organization with only yes men.

point out where i said china's morals are fitting or even useful for other countries

point out where i said there are many countries sharing china's values

 

[gambit]

much more legitimacy to act on international issues than any silly alliance you bring up which excludes half the world.

There has NEVER been any legitimacy to start. The 'legitimacy' that came from the UN is a pretense at best and a farce at worst. Where was the UN when it came to Yugoslavia ? It was NATO that acted and NATO excludes a lot of countries from memberships, just in case you do not know.

then dont bring up the topic genius

I did not. YOU did. I mentioned immigration, nothing to do with how much or little does immigration affects science and technology in the US.

how about you don't stick words in other people's mouths,
point out where i said America's scientific achievements ONLY came from immigrants.

Please...In the closet Chinese racists like you implied it often enough.

point out

where i said i would be okay with china in an international organization with only yes men.

That was a guess. But again, I doubt that you would have any problems with that.

point out

where i said china's morals are fitting or even useful for other countries

Never said you did. I only ask what moral values COULD China export to other countries ?

point out

where i said there are many countries sharing china's values

Never said you did. I only ask how many are there that shares similar dictatorial characteristics like China.

Like it or not, IF there is such a break from the UN by US and our allies, China WILL be the default leader of petty 3rd World dictatorships.

 

[applesauce]

There has NEVER been any legitimacy to start. The 'legitimacy' that came from the UN is a pretense at best and a farce at worst. Where was the UN when it came to Yugoslavia ? It was NATO that acted and NATO excludes a lot of countries from memberships, just in case you do not know.

no one said the UN is/was perfect, but again, im not comparing the UN to a hypothetical perfect international organization, i'm comparing it to your proposed exclusive organization that would try to act international. in such a comparison the UN would have mountains more legitimacy, if it chooses to act. and yes NATO did act in yugoslavia, no one said otherwise, but even NATO was keen to argue that it did not violate the UN charter.

I did not. YOU did. I mentioned immigration, nothing to do with how much or little does immigration affects science and technology in the US.

exactly, YOU brought up immigration i merely made a point about it, you are not the only one allowed to make points on this website.

Please...In the closet Chinese racists like you implied it often enough.

i see you have run out of thing to say and have resorted to racist generalizations

That was a guess. But again, I doubt that you would have any problems with that.

and i will guess YOU are the closet racist here

Never said you did. I only ask what moral values COULD China export to other countries ?

why cares? why did you even bring in china, i've made zero references to china before you brought it up, you only did so as a diversion as you cannot back up your original points with any logic/evidence.

Never said you did. I only ask how many are there that shares similar dictatorial characteristics like China.

who cares? china and its characteristics is only one of many countries that would be excluded from your club. and its fine to have a club but said club would have no legitimacy to act outside of its own members

Like it or not, IF there is such a break from the UN by US and our allies, China WILL be the default leader of petty 3rd World dictatorships.

so what? i didn't disagree or made a point contrary to this. i only said your club would have less legitimacy to act outside of itself than the UN

 

[Pangu]

The UN isn't perfect, but it's pretty much the only venue for lesser nations voice their stand. So no, UN needs to stay despite it's failures. As of now, the balance of power is still in favor to the west, but I would say Russia & China did a good job in preventing the US from doing what it does best, invading/destroying another country, namely Syria & the nuclear deal for Iran is not too shabby either.

 

[gambit]

no one said the UN is/was perfect, but again, im not comparing the UN to a hypothetical perfect international organization, i'm comparing it to your proposed exclusive organization that would try to act international. in such a comparison the UN would have mountains more legitimacy, if it chooses to act. and yes NATO did act in yugoslavia, no one said otherwise, but even NATO was keen to argue that it did not violate the UN charter.

There is no 'try', but will. International alliances are inherently extra-territorial in relations and by default ANYTHING they do will be 'international' in scope. Further, there can and will be alliances that will act with and against each other, so once again, ANYTHING they do will be 'international' in scope. How obvious can it get ?

exactly, YOU brought up immigration i merely made a point about it, you are not the only one allowed to make points on this website.

It was a useless point because it is not true. It is an argument that have no basis in reality. There are immigration -- yes. But just because so many of them are educated professionals does not equate to the usual generalization that ALL scientific accomplishments in the US came from immigrants. If you do not believe in it, then why did you bring it up ? I brought up immigration to the West only to point out that we can be as discriminatory as we want in this hypothetical new alliance. Nothing to do with scientific accomplishments.

i see you have run out of thing to say and have resorted to racist generalizations

When you brought on the ridiculous argument that science would collapse without non-white immigrants, it is YOU who are the racist.

If you think your group here is not made up of racists, look at the posts they made about Jews and Israel, a people and country that have next to nothing to do with China.

why cares? why did you even bring in china, i've made zero references to china before you brought it up, you only did so as a diversion as you cannot back up your original points with any logic/evidence.

Why not China ? There are always competition and when the Soviet Union collapsed, that left China as the only non-West competitor. This is foreign affairs we are talking about here.

who cares? china and its characteristics is only one of many countries that would be excluded from your club. and its fine to have a club but said club would have no legitimacy to act outside of its own members

so what? i didn't disagree or made a point contrary to this. i only said your club would have less legitimacy to act outside of itself than the UN

We would not care about legitimacy as much as protection and interests. So would any alliance led by China. You cannot deny this fact.

 

[Superboy]

Um nop. Without the UN we would have WW3 within a week. Throughout history men have fought for land, the most precious thing in the world. The UN Charter specifically states that no country is allowed to invade and occupy another country, in whole or in part, without the approval of the latter.

 

[cnleio]

Without U.N, Top5 Military Power can redivide the world and rebuild colonies like before WWII.

Hope ur nation is ready to defense ur homeland once U.N gone.

 

[TruthSeeker]

The greatest move the UN could make would be to re-locate somewhere other than the USA. PLEASE!!!!!

So all you UN supporters out there: Where should the UN be located?? I vote for Commie China.

Um nop. Without the UN we would have WW3 within a week. Throughout history men have fought for land, the most precious thing in the world. The UN Charter specifically states that no country is allowed to invade and occupy another country, in whole or in part, without the approval of the latter.

Better tell Putin!