Should Pakistan Try to Lease a Turkish Type 209 Submarine?

[tarrar]

In my opinion No, Pakistan should now try to concentrate on acquiring Nuclear Subs. If still there is a need to get new subs then advance submarines should be purchased from China.

 

[Bindovi]

In my opinion No, Pakistan should now try to concentrate on acquiring Nuclear Subs. If still there is a need to get new subs then advance submarines should be purchased from China.

In my opinion...Yes..
by doing so you can save the submarine from Russian attack....and if there is a war with India you can return it back without any damage to turkey before the war starts....

 

[帅的一匹]

Can I add my views here..
First why lease if you can buy or build..
Second if u folks want a lease asset say one in number for PN then why not a SSN older one from Chinese navy
Will that not help your own PN from
A) preparing for the black project of nuclear sub
B) training crew
C) the SLBM program

@Beast @wanglaokan is it not possible for PN to have a SSN sub for a 10 year lease from you guys. I mean if you folks don't want to give the latest aub its fine how about a used aub say approx 15 20 years old. Even one SSN may help PN much better for their own domestic N sub project..

Everything is possible, it depends on Pakistan's needs. If Russia could offer SSN to India, we also could offer SSN to counter balance it.

 

[It.is.all.mudi's.fault]

Everything is possible, it depends on Pakistan's needs. If Russia could offer SSN to India, we also could offer SSN to counter balance it.

And India could offer Heavy water reactor for electricity production to Vietnam and Philippines, a reactor which they could also use to produce Plutonium for nuclear bomb.

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction, and India is no pushover. Your leaders are not as big a fool as you are and neither is this 1980.

 

[wiseone2]

Pakistan's 3 Agosta 90B Submarines are shouldering the burden of defending the coastline. The 2 Agosta 70s are basically museum pieces that shouldn't be used because they risk the lives of the crews; due to their age much less their antiquated technology

Pakistan has always tried to acquire a qualitative edge over the Indians where it can. if Pakistan at least leases one if not two upgraded Turkish type 209 submarines; it can fill a gap; while learning about a different design philosophy when designing its future submarine with the Chinese (s-20) and also learn about a type the Indian navy operates

a 5 year lease of two of these submarines could be a smart stop-gap measure; especially if Pakistan can get them at a reasonable price

Should Pakistan approach turkey about this?

The Scorpene class submarines are superior to the Agosta 90B class submarines.

I doubt the Turks will be allowed to lease any advanced Western submarine technology to Pakistan.

It is not like a submarine versus submarine fight. Pakistani subs have to deal with Indian navy's ASW assets. The P-8I is state of the art submarine hunting platform.

 

[PaklovesTurkiye]

And India could offer Heavy water reactor for electricity production to Vietnam and Philippines, a reactor which they could also use to produce Plutonium for nuclear bomb.

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction, and India is no pushover. Your leaders are not as big a fool as you are and neither is this 1980.

Great!!! do it...Have you seen the map? China is sitting on your face. You are unnecessarily trying to be relevant in Pak China equation. You have already lost Nepal to China. What do you think that by arming Vietnam and Philippines, China will stop supporting Pakistan? Really? China will further intensify its support for Pakistan if India pisses china off. China and Pakistan are direct victims of Indian aggression and also are neighbors. A lot of common objectives Pakistan and China share with each other. Both will join Silk Road project. Both have mutual security concerns. It is just unfortunate that indian factor comes within it, thanks to india anyway. But you have nothing in common with Vietnam and Philippines except China hatred.

Sure go ahead. Lets see how a country is going to be happy and prosperous in the region by pissing off its two neighbors, given each of two has capacity to bring doomsday for India alone. Let alone if they ride together. Your problem is not with weapons that China is supplying to Pakistan but with strong bond that these two share with each other. Your problem is actually jealousy that how Pakistan is getting itself prepared to combat India. Thats why due to your inferiority complex you complain to US, China and Russia to stop defense arrangements with Pakistan. You don't want any country in this region to compete with you in any field. You don't want any competition. You want weak Pakistan that can be easily bullied just like you bully others in the region.

US and Russia both supply weapons to Pakistan. When are you going to arm and willing to become friend with Ukraine (anti Russia) and North Korea (anti US)? just like you are willing to be friend with Vietnam and Philippines cause both have enmity towards China. You are actually laughing stock of the world. Pakistan and China friendship is people to people and strong beyond your imagination. Chinese may be laughing at your threats. Pakistan and China share healthy relationship with each other since independence. Do you know what that does actually mean?

Everything is possible, it depends on Pakistan's needs. If Russia could offer SSN to India, we also could offer SSN to counter balance it.

Bro, watch this :-

 

[SSGcommandoPAK]

Pakistan's 3 Agosta 90B Submarines are shouldering the burden of defending the coastline. The 2 Agosta 70s are basically museum pieces that shouldn't be used because they risk the lives of the crews; due to their age much less their antiquated technology

Pakistan has always tried to acquire a qualitative edge over the Indians where it can. if Pakistan at least leases one if not two upgraded Turkish type 209 submarines; it can fill a gap; while learning about a different design philosophy when designing its future submarine with the Chinese (s-20) and also learn about a type the Indian navy operates

a 5 year lease of two of these submarines could be a smart stop-gap measure; especially if Pakistan can get them at a reasonable price

Should Pakistan approach turkey about this?

Yes indeed as After the Indian Nuclear submarine deal , India has ordered 6 scorpion subs

Turkish industry officials have told Defense News they are ready to offer Pakistan Type-209s if asked.

Turkey, one of Pakistan's closest allies and strongest defense industry partners, shelved its plans to upgrade its six Type-209/1200 Atilay class subs with AIP systems in favor of acquiring the Type-214.

However, Pakistani defense industry officials have said Islamabad would prefer a newer design.

Pakistan To Buy 8 Submarines From China


mind you a stop gap lease is not needed as pakistan is not going to war tommorow.[/Q

I suppose we are buying 8 S-20 subs , Are the S-20 better then the Type 209 or The indian scorpian subs ??

Why not refurnish Agosta 70B to 90B standard?

We should sell these subs to countries like Bangladesh or Srilanka who have no sub fleet , Or we should Upgrade these agosta's and us them for support or training purposes .

there were indications in the recent past that before Chinese subs agreement the Agosta 70s were upgraded and are fully operational. So we should stop giving statements without proofs. Secondly Pak has already faced effects of leasing Naval based assets. Further we should not make PN junkyard of oldies.

To get economy in case of naval assets PN should start joint projects with China to get real manufacturing capabilities not just assembling. We should go for production of ASHMs ourselves.
Pak may come in position in next few years at least to produce and sell FAC to other countries to compensate heavy PN expected expenses. All needs forecasting and planning which may be present at Naval Hq but not in Govt.

Yes well said ,Pakistan has made efforts in its land based weapons and Airforce , and has the capability to produce its own tanks ,Apc's , arms and ammunition , aircraft etc , when Pakistan can make all that then Pakistan should also enhance its naval fleet by doing joint ventures with other countries or make ingenious ships . Once Pakistan starts making its own naval ships its Defense Industry will also bloom .

Pakistan is smart to stick with a powerhouse like China for making a major weapon system. Turkey is too weak.

Thats true but we should give it a try , who knows it might become a successful joint venture ,

You are buying the superdooper S-80 sub from the super dooper power China,i dont think you will join the Milden program of a ''weak'' country,i guess you are to smart for that,as the troll above(beast) stated.

well he didn't mean it , we all know the capabilities of the Turkish defense industry ,You guys have produced many Good and useful tech ,He is just trying to say the Turks have a little experience in building naval ships and subs , so doing a joint venture could be a little risky ....

yes. you guys are even below us.
India(GDP)= 2.1 trillion
turkey(GDP)= 800 billion

Thats because of your stupid huge population , If you had the same population as the Turks u wouldnt even have a GDP 200 million

yes. you guys are even below us.
India(GDP)= 2.1 trillion
turkey(GDP)= 800 billion

Thats because of your Stupid huge population ,IF you had the same population as Turkey Your GDP wouldn't even be near 300 billion

No, no. It's average Indian doesn't have a house and live in slums. While we do. Average Indian earns like 1 dollar a day lol while minimum wage here is 1300tl.

Lol dont talk about money Indians , Cause your 70% population doesnt even have toilets in their houses ,

another Pakistani slave of turkey.

Not a turkish slaves, Both are your fathers It seems Your in the delusion not Turkey

Population of India =1.25 billion
Population of Turkey=77 million

Not even mention natural resources like oil and natural gas.
Quite interesting....

IF India had a Population of 77 Million There GDP would have been Equilant to Any African State i suppose

 

[ravi kiran]

Not a turkish slaves, Both are your fathers It seems Your in the delusion not Turkey

ok i give up your masters are super power. dont quote me ever again. i dont want to see your madrasa education.

 

[A2Z]

This option would have been good in 2010 but since now we have signed a deal of 8 chinese subs its of no use. If we are so desperate we can push chinese for some early deliveries. However as far as working with Turkey is concerned, there are several areas where their help can be used e.g. we can do a project like KORAL Electronic Warfare System wit them.

 

[BetterPakistan]

Better to lease nuclear submarines because we already have 5-6 submarines and 8 will come by Pak-China deal from which 4 will be manufactured in China and 4 in Pak. So i feel its time for nuclear submarines.

 

[Oguzhan]

Sorry guy,I'm just out of topic but want to ask just one thing,what you gonna do with a nuclear sub? lol
Is there a submarine race held in the world,you gonna go triatlon?That souns nonsense.
If your sub can shoot sub-ground missiles thats fair enough.Nuclear subs sound cool but too noisy and expensive to keep.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Pakistan's 3 Agosta 90B Submarines are shouldering the burden of defending the coastline. The 2 Agosta 70s are basically museum pieces that shouldn't be used because they risk the lives of the crews; due to their age much less their antiquated technology

Pakistan has always tried to acquire a qualitative edge over the Indians where it can. if Pakistan at least leases one if not two upgraded Turkish type 209 submarines; it can fill a gap; while learning about a different design philosophy when designing its future submarine with the Chinese (s-20) and also learn about a type the Indian navy operates

a 5 year lease of two of these submarines could be a smart stop-gap measure; especially if Pakistan can get them at a reasonable price

Should Pakistan approach turkey about this?

If Pakistan Navy wanted to procure U-209's it could have done this by ordering them new... These are still being produced... https://defence.pk/threads/two-more-u-209-for-egyptian-navy.360194/

Pakistan Navy required to replace the older Agosta -70's but it seems like they have decided to upgrade them and use them for training.
PN is also looking to replace the older small Italian subs that it uses with the newer Italian ones.

Never knew Turkey makes its own submarines

They have been making the U-214TN...

NO.

You use the Agosta 70s for training and theAgosta 90B for serious duty. They are paid for, they are reasonably capable and reasonablyt up to date. Why bother with a lease of a new shiptype?

Over the years PDF has been up with many options regarding PN Submarine options...This brought some very interesting questions to my mind...

Why is PN not looking for more old Agosta-90's?

PN chose Sterlin AIP system that is Swedish for her subs, this could have indicated that PN might consider the Gotland Class. Were these ever under consideration ?
http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/sweden-has-a-sub-thats-so-deadly-the-us-navy-hired-it-t-1649695984

When Italian midget subs are being used on transfer technology why did PN not opt for U-212A which the Italians produce and are willing to sell?

PN does not need to lease any Sub.
We don't require to lease or train on a type which is on the exit.

The Indian already have similar boats and know each and every detail...

 

[Penguin]

Why is PN not looking for more old Agosta-90's?

I believe Pakistan is the sole user of Agosta-90B, so the only 'old Agosta' you could possibly get would be Agosta-70, of which the French have decommissioned 4 and Spain 1. Only the Spanish boat is 3-4 years younger than the PN Agosta-70s. No Spanish boat - in service or decommissioned - is more than max 6 years younger than PN Agosta-70s. There is little point in persuing these boats.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agosta-class_submarine

 

[Super Falcon]

Hell of stupidity type 209 not with AIP and its diving depth asking for death with Indian P 8 they are coffins

Type 209 is useless in our deep waters we need subs which can dive deeper than 300 feet

Yaar kyon tum paglo ki tarah chala hue kartoos hi dhondhte rehta ho PN ka liye phele hi 90 fisad PN bhari paid ha chale hue kartoos se

If u take F 22 and Acosta subs out entire PN is made of old junks and what a JDM our member created to Add another junk

Stop mentality of used items in such difficult warfare of 3 armed forces

 

[sohail.ishaque]

I think it would be brilliant Idea after all by that time our six submarines will be ready...

six ??? i though the number was eight ???