Should Pakistan join China J-31 / F-60 project?

[Kompromat]

I would beg to differ. Spain is a partner of Eurofighter, but contributed very little to it.

They had cash to contribute, we don't.

J-31 should be easier and less costly to service than F-16.

Especially when #JF-17 uses the same engine....its true.

 

[Informant]

There is always room for optimism though. We just need to maintain a technological balance of power with India. Don't have to beat them bullet by bullet.

Even technological advantage is out of grasp when you compare a budget of mere $ 6b with a massive $ 42b. At this price range people run around you giving discounts that we would never get with our constant begging of cheap prices. India is in the position of acquiring stealth, MRCA, Tejas, MKIs while we can only look upto JF-17. It's time we think about economy, which frankly the ship has sailed, and we can just wish a better economic outlook.

Optimism is accepted when there is bleak prospects of hope. We have none when we court terrorists to listen to us instead of the other way around.

J-31 should be easier and less costly to service than F-16.

Radar absorbant paint and materials are a fortune. China cant help us everywhere, its understandable. New platform brings in a lot of costs.

 

[Superboy]

They had cash to contribute, we don't.




Especially when #JF-17 uses the same engine....its true.

Not only engine, but also airframe. DSI requires no maintenance. AESA is also easier to service than a mechanical radar, since it does not move.

 

[Chak Bamu]

By the end of this decade our economy would be in a far better shape. My idea is that already our planners are looking into affordability scenario based on a solid growth rate. We should get our foot into a 5th. generation project; it does not have to be J-31.

I am quite sure that we would be inducting 5th. generation by the middle of next decade, with JF-17 project having nicely matured by then.

 

[HariPrasad]

We got nothing to contribute

You can contribute money.

 

[jarves]

Pakistan can contribute with money as someone pointed out Chinese are having problems with the funding.

 

[Luftwaffe]

Joining the FC-1 project was a brilliant choice. J-31 / F-60 is a 5th generation fighter built by AVIC, also for export. Pakistan joined FC-1 with a 500 million USD contribution. What about joining F-60 with a 1 billion USD contribution? The result could be JF-26. JF standing for joint fighter. 26 means 10 more than 16, that is, to replace F-16, just as 17 means 10 more than 7, replacing F-7.

The actual amount of FC-1 project is more than $500m. A billion dollar is a startup amount but why not invest a billion into developing the capabilities of JF-17 and why not invest into high altitude SAMs systems that would actually pose some serious danger to neighbors entering Air Space.

 

[Kompromat]

We don't have any money. Period

 

[Luftwaffe]

Joining the FC-1 project was a brilliant choice. J-31 / F-60 is a 5th generation fighter built by AVIC, also for export. Pakistan joined FC-1 with a 500 million USD contribution. What about joining F-60 with a 1 billion USD contribution? The result could be JF-26. JF standing for joint fighter. 26 means 10 more than 16, that is, to replace F-16, just as 17 means 10 more than 7, replacing F-7.

The actual amount of FC-1 project is more than $500m. A billion dollar is a startup amount but why not invest a billion into developing the capabilities of JF-17 and why not invest into high altitude SAMs systems that would actually pose some serious danger to neighbors entering Air Space.

 

[Mav3rick]

Especially when #JF-17 uses the same engine....its true.

How can J-31 have the same engine as JF-17? J-31's engine should technically be stealth compliant and most likely with TVC & supercruise.

 

[Kompromat]

@Luftwaffe

We can only afford J-31 in numbers, only if we save up for a decade.

For Pakistan it offers enormous industrial benefits as well as a new thinking towards air warfare.

It can be made cheaper if Gulf states join in, especially KSA. Maybe we can have a full partnership in the program and divide the costs.

How can J-31 have the same engine as JF-17? J-31's engine should technically be stealth compliant and most likely with TVC & supercruise.

It uses the same class of engines. The 100kn WS-13 will power both JFT and J-31.

200kn of Milspec thrust will do wonders to J-31's flight performance.

TVCs are nozzels, can be fitted if needed.

 

[Luftwaffe]

We can only afford J-31 in numbers, only if we save up for a decade.

For Pakistan it offers enormous industrial benefits as well as a new thinking towards air warfare.

It can be made cheaper if Guld states join in, especially KSA. Maybe we can have a full partnership in the program and divide the costs.

Yes we can afford them in numbers some where between 48-64 in next 11-14 years provided the program goes smoothly and Pakistan invests certain amounts over the years that is more easy investment instead of one time billion or so...we can afford time to time investment this way is better. These aircrafts would be even more cheaper if it becomes a consortium with more than 2 Investors.

The problem is gulf states likes to invest but the pressure of US/EU changes their decision because alot of their cash is outside in those countries, not only that most of their equipment is US made/EU made they risk product support in short they are being threaten every now and than.

 

[trident2010]

It is wise for PAF to build up JF-17 blk 2/3 and in the meantime China would have matured engines and other techs for J-31. Once it is done pak can join in to buy the planes.

 

[Lil Mathew]

If Pakistan can contribute to funding, it should be able to get production and license rights. Rumor has it PLAAF is primarily funding J-20, with little funding for J-31. J-31 is primarily funded by AVIC itself, not like J-20 which is heavily funded by the Chinese government. If PAF can provide say 1 or 2 billion funding for J-31, the project can really turn out great. Plus, PAF needs a medium fighter in the future to replace F-16, and J-31 is the best choice for that. F-35 is too costly, and only has 1 engine. J-31 would be much less costly, and having two engines means it would be a lot safer to fly than F-35.

Your 1 billion ya 2 billion will be peanuts for China (>$3.5trillion reserve).. Also Pak can contribute 'zero' in tech.. India and Russia spending 30 billion each for FGFA(6 billion R&D+26billion procurement).. Also India can contribute much in tech part (avionics,software etc..with the help of other nations like Israel or France)..Pakistan need 10-15 billion extra for procurement ya production (if there is a jv)...
Now the question is " as Pakistan can contribute almost nothing in tech ya money, Why China want a Joint Venture"??.. Possible answers are..
1. To counter India..
2. To promote export(j31)..
For countering India they will neither give you their latest techs nor share their profit in export+ to promote export they seldom want a Jv with Pak.. That is above two aims can be met by only selling these planes to PAF(If they have enough money) without a JV.. [JSF f35 type partnership(eg-level1 partnership btw UK and USA) is the best option if China accepted]

The story of JF17 is diff.. J10 first flight(2008) was one year before the joint venture contract signed(2009).. Adding PLAF not inducted any JF17(have better option j10).. Now guess the answer..

 

[OrionHunter]

If Pakistan can contribute to funding, it should be able to get production and license rights. Rumor has it PLAAF is primarily funding J-20, with little funding for J-31. J-31 is primarily funded by AVIC itself, not like J-20 which is heavily funded by the Chinese government. If PAF can provide say 1 or 2 billion funding for J-31, the project can really turn out great.

You guys don't even have the $500 million for completing the Iran-Pakistan gas pipeline which has stalled due to lack of funds and you want to invest $1 to 2 billion for a project that little is known of? For such a project, China would be spending at least $20 billion for R&D, prototypes, testing etc. Your $500 million or even $2 billion would be less than peanuts!

I thought the energy requirements for Pakistan were a far greater priority than throwing money on such a project?