Should discussion be allowed on questions raised by Engineer Muhammad Ali Mirza?

[CriticalThought]

Imam ahmad raza barelvi has one against deoband

But you said both Deobandis and Barelvis have a Fatwa against each other. That statement has proven incorrect. I now invite you to think who put this thought in your mind. Question that person because definitely he is spreading a false propaganda.

As for Deobandis, here is a Fatwa from one of the most respected Deobandi Dar-ul-Iftas:

بریلوی حضرات کافر نہیں | جامعہ علوم اسلامیہ علامہ محمد یوسف بنوری ٹاؤن

محترم مفتی صاحب ! یہ بتائیں کہ بریلوی مشرک ہیں تومشرک تو کافر ہوتاہےتوعلماء نے بریلوی کو کافر قرار کیوں نہیں دیا ؟

www.banuri.edu.pk

And as for Barelvis, the scholars after Imam Ahmad Raza Barelvi have retracted that Fatwa and they say it was given based on incorrect information that Imam Sahib had received at the time. I invite you to double check this statement from authentic Barelvi sources, and please let me know if I am wrong.

Let us not forget. What has just happened is that we have found a shocking case of outright prevarication. Using complete fibs and fabrications to paint a negative image of certain schools of thoughts in the minds of ordinary people. I invite everyone to think about this.

 

[xyxmt]

If we raise questions upon our beloved prophet's ability to choose right companions and even a life companion then are we going to question all his teachings too? I am not the one who will and those of you who do, let PDF be the witness that I ask you to correct yourself. Let Allah be the judge not you and me.

 

[PakAlp]

Engineer Ali Mirza is sectarian himself, he picks and chooses from each sect and now is making up his own fitna group. Many scholars in the western countries are also doing the same, just picking and choosing from all groups and then making a sect themselves (without naming it yet). They use the same tactics as Ali Mirza. Just because someone says we are not sectarian, it doesn't mean they are not. Its a slogan to fool the innocent youth. The deobandis also believe they are not sectarian, brelvis also say the same. Same with Ahle Hadith.

Regarding brelvi and deobandi division. People need to read the history, this issue was already there before Ahmad Raza Khan brelvi was born. Darul Deoband was created 1866 when Ahmed Raza Khan was only 10 years old. The Sunni scholars of the Indian subcontinent already had fatwas on deobandi elders before 1866 and before Ahmed Raza Khan was born, the reason for fatwas was because the traditional Sunni scholars rejected the new reformist scholars who visited Hijaz/Najd and came back with a reformist Islam.

If we want to finish this sectarian cancer then we need to follow the earlier Islam which came to the Indian Subcontinent, the Islam which was here during the Islamic golden Age, but instead people want to follow a reformist Islam and this is the issue. Those who make sects, then label others as sectarian by using media power and money, those who defend the traditional Islam, they are labelled as fitna and sectarian whilst those who make new sects are promoted because they have the backing.

 

[Areesh]

Please enlighten me what questions did he fail to answer about himself?

Besides questions about himself, is there anything that he preaches that's fraudulent?

The original takfiri of the subcontinent besides qadianis...

Lets take his very recent episode with Sunni Deobandi scholar Maulana Tariq Masood as an example

Engineer keeps on making provocative videos issuing various challenges (yeh zehar ka piyala pi lain gai jawab nahi dain gai)

Maulana Tariq Masood asks him to have a debate on challenges that were given by engineer himself

Engineer says no I want to debate with you on beliefs of deobandis that were written in a book al muhannad al mufannad (steps back from debating on challenges that he himself gave in the past)

Maulana Tariq Masood says Okay. Lets talk about the beliefs that are written in the book al muhannad al mufannad along with the challenges that you gave yourself

Engineer asks Maulana to come to Jhelum

Maulana reaches Jhelum. Posts a video on youtube giving engineer 48 hours to respond back so that the debate can happen

Engineer disappears for those 48 hours

Maulana leaves Jhelum after 48 hours

Engineer starts posting videos again once he is confirmed Maulana has left Jhelum and reached Karachi

A complete and proper fraud who is fooling youth using youtube. Someone who is promoting sectarianism instead of curbing it

 

[alee92nawaz]

But you said both Deobandis and Barelvis have a Fatwa against each other. That statement has proven incorrect. I now invite you to think who put this thought in your mind. Question that person because definitely he is spreading a false propaganda.

As for Deobandis, here is a Fatwa from one of the most respected Deobandi Dar-ul-Iftas:

بریلوی حضرات کافر نہیں | جامعہ علوم اسلامیہ علامہ محمد یوسف بنوری ٹاؤن

محترم مفتی صاحب ! یہ بتائیں کہ بریلوی مشرک ہیں تومشرک تو کافر ہوتاہےتوعلماء نے بریلوی کو کافر قرار کیوں نہیں دیا ؟

www.banuri.edu.pk

And as for Barelvis, the scholars after Imam Ahmad Raza Barelvi have retracted that Fatwa and they say it was given based on incorrect information that Imam Sahib had received at the time. I invite you to double check this statement from authentic Barelvi sources, and please let me know if I am wrong.

Let us not forget. What has just happened is that we have found a shocking case of outright prevarication. Using complete fibs and fabrications to paint a negative image of certain schools of thoughts in the minds of ordinary people. I invite everyone to think about this.

Sir I have lived with deobandis. They are not the saints that you think they are. Imam barelvi didn't give the fatwas himself that he could retract. He got them from different ulemas all over the world. The fake Hadith, love of yazid etc etc have been the product of these mullahs

 

[Areesh]

He got them from different ulemas all over the world.

In case you don't know

Those fatwas got retracted long ago even in the lifetime of Ahmed Raza himself

By the way Ahmed Raza also gave fatwa of kufr against Rawafiz (Shias) in his book fatawa e rizvia and other books. What is your opinion about that?

 

[pakpride00090]

Mirza Ali in recent fiasco with TLP supported them but then switched sides when he noticed the tide was trying.

Mirza Ali doesn't really have have any scholastic achievements to speak of . He just comes with a topic with evidence and says it.

His knowledge and expertise can only be tested if he can argue with someone knowledgeable face to face.

I am going to hold my judgement against him but one must be careful.

 

[Mentee]

I respect Imam Abu Hanifa for being a prominent Islamic jurist but the fan following base especially of indo - pak region doesn't sit quite well with me . Condescending straight out bullies who resort to extreme violence and shouting the moment you cite Quran o Sunnah on any issue they aren't aware of or deliberately kept in the dark for politcal appropriation -------. Hence why scholars like Engineer Mirza are targeted for refuting myths of self grandeur .

 

[Mentee]

By the way Ahmed Raza also gave fatwa of kufr against Rawafiz (Shias) in his book fatawa e rizvia and other books. What is your opinion about that

This is what irks me the most they take their whole wilayat concept from the shias , create myths around it which are poles apart from Quran and Ahadees of Ayma Ahly Byt A.s then update those myths to make demi-gods from their own ranks and still calls Shia kuffar.

 

[Areesh]

Mirza Ali in recent fiasco with TLP supported them but then switched sides when he noticed the tide was trying.

Mirza Ali doesn't really have have any scholastic achievements to speak of . He just comes with a topic with evidence and says it.

His knowledge and expertise can only be tested if he can argue with someone knowledgeable face to face.

I am going to hold my judgement against him but one must be careful.

He can't sit with anyone knowledgeable. He knows that he would get caught for his lack of knowledge

All of his videos are based on planted questions. He likes to talk big because that gets video viral. But he won't sit with anyone knowledge. Many people tried to approach him for debates and all that but he always backed of giving one lame excuse or another

 

[I.R.A]

I respect Imam Abu Hanifa for being a prominent Islamic jurist but the fan following base especially of indo - pak region doesn't sit quite well with me . Condescending straight out bullies who resort to extreme violence and shouting the moment you cite Quran o Sunnah on any issue they aren't aware of or deliberately kept in the dark for politcal appropriation -------. Hence why scholars like Engineer Mirza are targeted for refuting myths of self grandeur .

Pai ...... respected Abu Hanifa may have been valid centuries ago, how can his work be valid in today's times except as a historical reference?

 

[Areesh]

This is what irks me the most they take their whole wilayat concept from the shias , create myths around it which are poles apart from Quran and Ahadees of Ayma Ahly Byt A.s then update those myths to make demi-gods from their own ranks and still calls Shia kuffar.

Well it is good that they disassociate from some certain deviant beliefs that shias have while also following and respecting Ahlebayt. There is nothing wrong in it. They are sunni after all

I just wanted to share that Ahmed Raza Khan has given fatwas nearly against everyone

Pai ...... respected Abu Hanifa may have been valid centuries ago, how can his work be valid in today's times except as a historical reference?

And what part of Imam Abu Hanifa work isn't relevant today?

 

[I.R.A]

And what part of Imam Abu Hanifa work isn't relevant today?

The whole economic system, the scientific research, the exploration and new discoveries, better means of exploring and understanding the universe, better understanding of species of different kinds, better medical treatments, technological advances so on and so forth. They did what they did according to their times.

Let me give you a simple example ..... Quran says

" He has created the heavens without any pillars, that you see and has set on the earth firm mountains, lest it should shake with you. And He has scattered therein moving (living) creatures of all kinds. And We send down water (rain) from the sky, and We cause (plants) of every goodly kind to grow therein."

Now anyone with slightest better scientific knowledge would understand this verse better.

 

[Areesh]

The whole economic system, the scientific research, the exploration and new discoveries, better means of exploring and understanding the universe, better understanding of species of different kinds, better medical treatments, technological advances so on and so forth. They did what they did according to their times.

Let me give you a simple example ..... Quran says

" He has created the heavens without any pillars, that you see and has set on the earth firm mountains, lest it should shake with you. And He has scattered therein moving (living) creatures of all kinds. And We send down water (rain) from the sky, and We cause (plants) of every goodly kind to grow therein."

Now anyone with slightest better scientific knowledge would understand this verse better.

Imam Abu Hanfia didn't stop you from exploring the universe. Nor he stopped you from doing technological research and advancement

That is a very generic answer you gave. I ask again. What part of Imam Abu Hanifa work that you think isn't relevant today and needs to be updated

 

[I.R.A]

Imam Abu Hanfia didn't stop you from exploring the universe. Nor he stopped you from doing technological research and advancement

That is a very generic answer you gave. I ask again. What part of Imam Abu Hanifa work that you think isn't relevant today and needs to be updated

Generic?

I don't expect Abbu Hanifa to be aware of something called gravity, I also don't expect Abbu Hanifa to be aware at that time that mountains have roots, I think Abbu Hanifa wasn't aware of many species which were discovered centuries after his times, he couldn't have weather forecasted and tell people how rain system works, and obviously he wasn't aware of something called Chlorophyll in plants.

If you think he and people of his time had all this knowledge ..... ok they and their methods are relevant today ........ if not then their work should simply be used as a reference to history.