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Shortage of mosques in France

" (sadly from what I hear many of them are not really doing Pakistan a favour by their acts) "
I thought you said "Blanket generalizations are always idiotic and are best avoided."?


it makes no sense for Pakistanis based in the West, to point fingers at Muslims in Europe visiting European countries.
We don't point fingers but we have the right to boycott and we do. Muslims in the west like going to Muslims counties on holiday, it's a growing trend.

Besides every country has bad apples, whether Turkey, Greece, Pakistan or any other country.
Kissing the backsides of muslim haters will not help


Also sorry to disappoint you, but there are many secular/atheist Turks who dislike Pakistanis, Afghans, Arabs, Iranians etc. and don't want them around and they would probably prefer a Greek.
Many of the secular / Atheist Turks still like Pakistanis


Many mosques are empty in Europe as well. A huge amount of Muslims in Europe are just Muslims in name. Many are in fact making a mockery out of Islam by their non-Islamic behaviour.
You'r wrong, Some may be empty, but most are packed, not the same as Churches as at all.
I live in Europe and see them with my own eyes, you'r just wrong here.
I live, work and interact with many Muslims is the west, they are not muslims just in name.
Yes some do misbehave but many will be at the mosque on a Friday.

We can't generalize because the Muslim and Pakistani community in the West has its own problems and hypocrisy like anywhere else.
I am a Pakistani in the west, yes we do have some problems but we also have huge amounts of success.
Don't use the blanket generalisations, you mention above on us, or believe all you read in the press.
Many of us are very successful, The number of Pakistani self made millionaires is HUGE in the west, so are the number of
professionals of Pakistani decent. Mostly we have good family values and live happy and content lives.

Don't put down the Pakistani diaspora in the west to kiss up to muslim hater.

Not sure why you are writing such a long post and arguing points that I have never claimed?

Yes, which is also why I specifically wrote "I have heard". I don't know any Pakistanis based in Greece or Muslims for that matter.

Help me out here, millions of Pakistanis and Muslims live in the West but you have a problem with me or other Muslims POSSIBLY visiting Crete for a holiday?

What kissing? Have you read any of my posts in this thread? Seems not to be the case. I am openly criticizing the West on numerous fronts. What are you even talking about here?

However we need to be fair. The Muslim community, including the Pakistani one, in the West, is far from perfect.

Many dislike us too. Have you seen some of the threads on PDF posted about this very topic? They were quite big a few months ago. Social media too.

The point was that there are plenty of empty/not full mosques in Europe and that, sadly, more and more young Muslims in the West are less and less willing to follow Islam and practice it.

Of course the average mosque in the West will be more full than the average Church because Muslims in the West (for now at least) are far more prone to be faithful and because there are far fewer mosques than churches.

I never denied any success of Pakistanis in the West or Muslims as a whole in the West, there is plenty of that, I just stated that there are also problems and challenges in the community. That is all.

As for whether @Folnikas is a anti-Muslim hater or not, I don't know him enough on PDF to know that and even if he was, no amount of insults or praise or whatever would likely change his opinion and quite frankly, I don't care, because it has nothing to do with my question about Crete.
 
Not sure why you are writing such a long post and arguing points that I have never claimed?

Yes, which is also why I specifically wrote "I have heard". I don't know any Pakistanis based in Greece or Muslims for that matter.

Help me out here, millions of Pakistanis and Muslims live in the West but you have a problem with me or other Muslims POSSIBLY visiting Crete for a holiday?

What kissing? Have you read any of my posts in this thread? Seems not to be the case. I am openly criticizing the West on numerous fronts. What are you even talking about here?

However we need to be fair. The Muslim community, including the Pakistani one, in the West, is far from perfect.

Many dislike us too. Have you seen some of the threads on PDF posted about this very topic? They were quite big a few months ago. Social media too.

The point was that there are plenty of empty/not full mosques in Europe and that, sadly, more and more young Muslims in the West are less and less willing to follow Islam and practice it.

Of course the average mosque in the West will be more full than the average Church because Muslims in the West (for now at least) are far more prone to be faithful and because there are far fewer mosques than churches.

I never denied any success of Pakistanis in the West or Muslims as a whole in the West, there is plenty of that, I just stated that there are also problems and challenges in the community. That is all.

As for whether @Folnikas is a anti-Muslim hater or not, I don't know him enough on PDF to know that and even if he was, no amount of insults or praise or whatever would likely change his opinion and quite frankly, I don't care, because it has nothing to do with my question about Crete.

Yes, which is also why I specifically wrote "I have heard". I don't know any Pakistanis based in Greece or Muslims for that matter.
Maybe you heard wrong then? It's still a generalisation. Yes, I got the impression you would not know any based in Greece.

Help me out here, millions of Pakistanis and Muslims live in the West but you have a problem with me or other Muslims POSSIBLY visiting Crete for a holiday?
I have no problem if you want to go, but the same millions of Muslims in the west you mention, generally have money and go on holiday, very often and we do.
We have the right to boycott and to avoid places where they dislike muslims and we do.

However we need to be fair. The Muslim community, including the Pakistani one, in the West, is far from perfect.
So that makes anti Muslims comments on this forum ok? Your generalising again.
NO ONE IS ACTUALLY PERFECT but we are not that bad either, far from it.
You seem to be very keen to put us down and hold a negative view.
No problem, that is your right, but it's wrong.
Don't believe all you read about us in the press, a lot of it is not true or just exaggerated.

Many dislike us too. Have you seen some of the threads on PDF posted about this very topic? They were quite big a few months ago. Social media too.
I think its over blown, me and all my friends who have been to Turkey and know many different kind of turks, never met a Turk who hated us.
The Turks who live in the west actually generally admire the Pakistani Dispora and want to be like us.
My relatives have married Turks and we have many Turkish friends. Real life is different to social media.

The point was that there are plenty of empty/not full mosques in Europe and that, sadly, more and more young Muslims in the West are less and less willing to follow Islam and practice it.
Rubbish. Thats not what I see with my own eyes here in the west, but I guess you know better.
When I try to find parking near any mosque at Juma time, it's near impossible and thats At every mosque i have visited in many cites.
We have traffic warden who come to mosques every Friday as it mayhem due to number of worshippers, parking is a nightmare.

Of course the average mosque in the West will be more full than the average Church because Muslims in the West (for now at least) are far more prone to be faithful and because there are far fewer mosques than churches.
You just wrong here, we still have faith in Islam in the west, the Mosques are packed here and the number of Muslims is only going one way and that is up.
Its just factually wrong what you are saying. Many white Christains will tell you they admire muslims as they are the only ones who still have faith.

I never denied any success of Pakistanis in the West or Muslims as a whole in the West, there is plenty of that, I just stated that there are also problems and challenges in the community. That is all.
It sounded like a snide attempt to put us down, yes we do have some problems, but don't believe all you read in the press.
We never get credit for our success, I want to be clear , we are very successful over here.
I am one of those success.
 
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How does that make sense? That's an even worse statement.
There is no shortage of churches in Pakistan, neither are they restricted in following their cultural or otherwise practices.
It actually makes much more sense than fucking KSA.

The Christian population in Pakistan is growing precisely because they're not restricted in Pakistan in any way. If a population is growing then the need for more facilities arises.
 
The Vatican is a tiny State the size of a village. It's surrounded by Rome. Saudi Arabia is a big country. Mecca and Medina are just two cities in it.


Abu Habibullah,where did you see the persecution?
Does Bulgaria allow Mosques? Despite having native Muslim population?
Are there any native saudi christians communities?
Is KSA, a democracy or a republic?
Is the Saudi state responsible for millions of migrant workers from all over asia, africa etc?
They however allow white christian europeans to have churches in their compounds?


One cant claim to be a republic, keep suckin african colonies dry (continues to this day, from controlling CFA, raping the mineral wealth, assasinating African political leaders, keep military force in dozen conflicts.


And than keep legitimising state persecution of a special group of people.

From committing genocides like in Algeria, using millions of African troops during world wars, even creating fuckin harkis. And than pissing on the children of the same people.

Not just them but fellow christian Romani people too.

Be a greek, not a fucking greaseball dickhead.
 
I would recommend Turkey over Greece for a holiday.
Some Greeks are ok, many are like you and to be avoided. No muslim should spend their money in Greece.
The Turks are more friendly and always show love to the Pakistani diaspora.
Greece is renowed for its tourism industry and hospitality. It ranks among the world's top summer destinations and the vast majority of people visiting,praise the locals as friendly and hospitable. Muslim Arabs visit our country and love it.
Turks visit the islands next to them and Greeks visit the coastal cities and have excellent relations.

There are plenty of Muslim tourists in Greece and even Pakistanis in Greece (sadly from what I hear many of them are not really doing Pakistan a favour by their acts) and frankly speaking, it makes no sense for Pakistanis based in the West, to point fingers at Muslims in Europe visiting European countries.
On spot again,unfortunately the countless cases of crimes have given a bad name to Pakistanis here. There are hard-working and honest Pakistanis who are trying to make a living,but masses of lowlives and criminals arrive illegally,often with fake IDs, giving a bad name to the community in general.

BTW, Turkey is a great holiday spot too and I have visited Turkey several times but I am yet to visit Crete and much of Greece. When I travel, I travel for the sake of travelling and I try to leave politics aside. Besides every country has bad apples, whether Turkey, Greece, Pakistan or any other country.
It makes sense because,especially in the coast of Asia Minor,it's basically the same place as in Greece. It's Eastern Mediterranean. Turkey's tourism sector has developed very much the last 20 years. Greeks mostly visit Turkey for cultural reasons,because you know most of what is now Turkey,used to be the other half of our homeland. So many people visit Constantinople the most,but also the Pontus region,Smyrne(Izmir) and Cappadocia. We don't really need to go to Turkey for summer vacations like Western Europeans or Russians,Ukrainians and other Slavs do,but people from the islands next to Turkey often go to cities and towns like Bodrum for example,for shopping. Greeks from Thrace also go to Edirne for shopping,since it's very close to the border.

Also sorry to disappoint you, but there are many secular/atheist Turks who dislike Pakistanis, Afghans, Arabs, Iranians etc. and don't want them around and they would probably prefer a Greek.
That's also true. Although,I think they would prefer an Azeri or Bosnian better 😂


Many mosques are empty in Europe as well. A huge amount of Muslims in Europe are just Muslims in name. Many are in fact making a mockery out of Islam by their non-Islamic behaviour.
Also very true! And let's not forget the "hardcore" Muslims who go on preaching about how Muslim countries should be like,but live in Western societies enjoying the full benefits of the "decadent" West.

arabian-religious-muslim-man-isolated-36430232 (2).jpg




Having said that, the current insanity from the leftists/liberals/atheists/LGBT/1000 different genders crowd is mostly a Western thing/invention indeed and should be called out.
Just called out? It's MADNESS! It's the death of human society! It's all an agenda. And unfortunately,the youth love it.
 
You live in Pakistan and don't face the discrimination we face on a day to day basis just because we are muslims, by people who hold the same views as the poster you are defending.
Tourists don't face "discrimination". Don't know where you've been that you were discriminated at,but usually and in most developed (and even many undeveloped) countries in the world,tourists don't face discrimination. They bring money.

Besides every country has bad apples, whether Turkey, Greece, Pakistan or any other country.
And being an apologist for muslim haters Kissing their backsides will not help
Muslim haters? Countries who have excellent relations with many Muslim communities and other countries,are supposed to be "Muslim haters"?

Yes some do misbehave but many will be at the mosque on a Friday.
Being at the mosque on Friday makes you a good muslim?

Don't put down the Pakistani diaspora in the west to kiss up to muslim hater.
Again,why do you call me a "muslim hater"? Because I don't want Islam to expand in Europe? Would you have liked Christianity or Buddhism or Hinduism expand greatly in the Muslim belt from Iran to Bangladesh?
 
Does Bulgaria allow Mosques? Despite having native Muslim population?
Are there any native saudi christians communities?
Is KSA, a democracy or a republic?
Is the Saudi state responsible for millions of migrant workers from all over asia, africa etc?
They however allow white christian europeans to have churches in their compounds?
I've no idea what Bulgaria does.
Even if there are Saudi native Christian communities,they must be very small and maybe even "underground".
Does one have to be a republic to grant fundamental rights? Since Saudi Arabia funds a lot of Muslim activities worldwide,they should be also supposedly open to the idea of tolerating churches and also other temples. Hypothetically.
If the Saudi State is responsible about migrant workers...what point are you trying to make? That in Saudi Arabia they invite them,but in Europe they come uninvited? Or that in Saudi Arabia they are not responsible for millions of migrant workers? What's your point?
They allow white Christian europeans to have churches in their compounds...ok,should we put Muslims in Europe in enclosed towns and allow them to have mosques there? 🙄

One cant claim to be a republic, keep suckin african colonies dry (continues to this day, from controlling CFA, raping the mineral wealth, assasinating African political leaders, keep military force in dozen conflicts.
That's what ex-colonial powers do,unfortunately. Britain,France,Americans etc.

And than keep legitimising state persecution of a special group of people.
Where's the persecution? Just because some say "we want more mosques"?

Not just them but fellow christian Romani people too.
Gypsies are not always Christian,but anyway...you don't know gypsies,so please give me a break.
Be a greek, not a fucking greaseball dickhead.
Be respectful,not something between an Ertogrul fan and a pajeet.
 
It actually makes much more sense than fucking KSA.

The Christian population in Pakistan is growing precisely because they're not restricted in Pakistan in any way. If a population is growing then the need for more facilities arises.

I understand your point of view, and agree with the premise of your statement. Thanks for clarifying.

But the other guy made a denigrating statement, so the link with Pakistan created a different impression from the one you wanted to create.
 
Ah Ertuğrul fan...ok.
Are you? No harm in admitting that.

French lives in sheltered lives fed through rose-titled glasses so I expect for their deducted reasoning would be grass is always greener.
 
Are you? No harm in admitting that.

French lives in sheltered lives fed through rose-titled glasses so I expect for their deducted reasoning would be grass is always greener.
Why would I be an Ertugrul fan?
 
A common misunderstanding is the idea of so-called "European" features in Middle Eastern people/Semitic people and for that matter Indo-Iranian and Indo-Aryan peoples of West Asia and South Asia (Pakistan mainly here) are some kind of imaginary "European influence" while this is not correct.

It is the other way around. Most Europeans are descendents of Middle Eastern Neolithic peoples native to the Arab world, Turkey (Anatolia). The other large wave were the Indo-European nomadic migration from what is modern-day Southern Russia/Northern Caucasus/Central Asia. Not Europe in other words too.

Also the gene for light skin/blue/green eyes is a genetic mutation that originated in the Middle East, not Europe.

Studies have suggested that the two genes most associated with lighter skin colour in modern Europeans originated in the Middle East and the Caucasus about 22,000 to 28,000 years ago, and were present in Anatolia by 9000 years ago, where their carriers became associated with the Neolithic Revolution and the spread of agriculture.




Light skin in Europeans stems from ONE 10,000-year-old ancestor who lived between India and the Middle East, claims study​



So let us end this ignorance once and for all.

Which is why you to this day can find green eyed and red/ginger Bedouin in the middle of Arabia and Kalash people in northern Pakistan in places where there was never any European migrations or presence.

Similarly with the myth of Levantine Arabs (vast, vast majority of them have dark eyes and dark hair) that don't have such features are some kind of remnants of Europeans. Nonsense. Those are ancient local features.

Which also explains why many famous Islamic personalities from the early days of Islam (Arabs/Arabians from modern-day KSA/Arabia) were described as pale/fair-skinned and even Prophet Muhammad (saws) was described as a person with ginger/reddish beard.

Anyway this is all irrelevant, I consider olive skin people to be the best looking by far, but just some historical/DNA/genetic facts here as I continue to see such misguided/false claims online about this topic.



I as a Muslim support this myself. I want Christianity, as a fellow Abrahamic religion with much commonalities with Islam (core tenants are very similar) as well as Judaism, to not die out among its followers but to regain their position in the societies. I think that this could create a better understanding between Muslims and the average European (people of God tend to have more in common than the opposite in particular in this day and age). Even the likes of Jordan Peterson and most of his followers have realized this.

Anyway my theory is that this lack of identity/connection with the past/lack of religion, is the main cause for the rootlessness and the spread of depression/anxiety/lack of purpose in the West and all the cultural filth that the West/USA is exporting to the rest of the world.

For instance, sadly, the average young Westerner can name some useless "social media influencer" in their sleep but they would struggle to mention the recent Noble Prize winners in say physics or chemistry.

Not only a Western problem BTW. Common in Pakistan too.



BTW Folnikas, are you familiar with Crete? If so, any areas of Crete that you could recommend? Preferably the more authentic (Cretan experience) the better and the less tourists the better. So naturally I am thinking about the inland (villages there) and in terms of coastline some more remote vilages/small towns in the south of Crete.

Those late neolithic ancestors existed in the Pontic region, which is the early Ymanya culture. The Proto-Indo-Iranic culture appeared as an off-shoot of it in the early Bronze Age on the Caspian steppes.

What you've posted is not really contrary to what I have written. Leventine Arabs have Yamnya genes which come form the Pontic region.

But the earlier hunter gatherer & farmer cultures that Europe has became erased by the late post Yamnaya populations of Europe as we can see in linguistic & archeological evidence. Even Finno-Ugric speaking populations of Europe have mostly post Yamnya genes. They are not North Asian/Uralic by race for the most part.

So nothing i wrote is incorrect. The Pontic region is closer to Europe than the Indian subcontinent, so not really "in between." Even the Proto-Indo-Iranic homeland on the Caspian steppes is closer to Europe than South Asia.
 
I've no idea what Bulgaria does.
Even if there are Saudi native Christian communities,they must be very small and maybe even "underground".
Does one have to be a republic to grant fundamental rights? Since Saudi Arabia funds a lot of Muslim activities worldwide,they should be also supposedly open to the idea of tolerating churches and also other temples. Hypothetically.
If the Saudi State is responsible about migrant workers...what point are you trying to make? That in Saudi Arabia they invite them,but in Europe they come uninvited? Or that in Saudi Arabia they are not responsible for millions of migrant workers? What's your point?
They allow white Christian europeans to have churches in their compounds...ok,should we put Muslims in Europe in enclosed towns and allow them to have mosques there? 🙄


That's what ex-colonial powers do,unfortunately. Britain,France,Americans etc.


Where's the persecution? Just because some say "we want more mosques"?


Gypsies are not always Christian,but anyway...you don't know gypsies,so please give me a break.

Be respectful,not something between an Ertogrul fan and a pajeet.
I surrender man, you are a gopnik cunt. I wish I was like you. Stupid and irrational and bigoted.
 
God knows better.

That's why Islam is the last hold of the faithful

There is nothing else, everyone else is bowing and bending to this degeneracy, ask yourself this even amongst the faithful of your country do they live their lives in a way that Jesus would approve, even modern xtians are nothing more then a watered down version of Christians in the past


Only Islam is left holding out and even we are under constant pressure
 
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