Shoot me, but I still won't sing Vande Mataram, says Muslim leader

[Chhatrapati]

I meant how Hindus touch feet of parents and elders.

Ah! We bow with a hand gesture.

These are just cultural things. Not necessarily religious. Some Arabs do the Nose thing.

Though nobody said against touching feet when bowing (I guess).

 

[padamchen]

Ah! We bow with a hand gesture.

These are just cultural things. Not necessarily religious. Some Arabs do the Nose thing.

Though nobody said against touching feet when bowing (I guess).

So I guess that is a Hindustani legacy. Not Islamic.

Cheers, Doc

 

[he-man]

No point in making things mandatory......like anthem before a movie.It serves no purpose and is a waste of time.On the other hand deliberately being against it for religious purposes is equally stupid.

 

[Chhatrapati]

So I guess that is a Hindustani legacy. Not Islamic.

Cheers, Doc

That I'm not sure.

If your are talking about bowing like this

No, it's not allowed. It should be done to god only.

 

[padamchen]

That I'm not sure.

If your are talking about bowing like this

View attachment 417532

No, it's not allowed. It should be done to god only.

No, like this ....

Cheers, Doc

 

[Chhatrapati]

No, like this ....

Cheers, Doc

That's ok.

It will be called cultural. From my perspective I find it perfectly normal.

In fact I did that during my school days, when receiving a price from a prominent person.

 

[padamchen]

That's ok.

It will be called cultural. From my perspective I find it perfectly normal.

In fact I did that during my school days, when receiving a price from a prominent person.

That was my point.

Thank you.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Pakistani E]

They are making a mountain out of a mole hill.
Indian Muslims that I know of chant GAYATRI mantra and Panchaakshar too.
For example very recently a Bihar Minister had chanted JAI SRI Ram. Unfortunate that instead of praising him for uniting diff religions, he was served a FATWA.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.thequint.com/amp/story/politics%2F2017%2F07%2F30%2Ffatwa-bihar-minister-apologises-for-jai-shri-ram-slogan

I can chant Jai Sri Ram too as praising a holy personage isn't an issue, but the only issue that I can see with the Vande Mataram rudimentary translation that I have seen is that it goes on to call "Mother", one's Lord. Which could obviously imply to mean a mother Goddess, which would indeed be shirk.

Or maybe I have it wrong, care to explain the meaning of that phrase?

 

[Chhatrapati]

which would indeed be shirk.

No. It doesn't mean mother goddess. It is just mother land. Where we are born. Taken in a metaphoric way.

For those who worship their land as goddess they can do that. That doesn't mean the land is a god.

Hindu find god in everything.

 

[Pakistani E]

No. It doesn't mean mother goddess. It is just mother land. Where we are born. Taken in a metaphoric way.

For those who worship their land as goddess they can do that. That doesn't mean the land is a god.

Hindu find god in everything.

"To thee I call Mother and Lord!"

"Every image made divine
In our temples is but thine."

"Thou art Durga, Lady and Queen,
With her hands that strike and her swords of sheen,
Thou art Lakshmi lotus-throned,
And the Muse a hundred-toned,
Pure and perfect without peer,"

I admit I got these from Wiki so don't know if it's correct or not part of the modern one. But to me these verses are quite explicit in their meaning. At the end of the day, it is up to Indians to decide on this, I was just curious as to why the singing of the above is a big issue since it is not even the national anthem?

 

[Chhatrapati]

"To thee I call Mother and Lord!"

"Every image made divine
In our temples is but thine."

"Thou art Durga, Lady and Queen,
With her hands that strike and her swords of sheen,
Thou art Lakshmi lotus-throned,
And the Muse a hundred-toned,
Pure and perfect without peer,"

I admit I got these from Wiki so don't know if it's correct or not part of the modern one. But to me these verses are quite explicit in their meaning.

Vande matharam means "Mother, I bow to thee!" As wiki mentioned it is taken in as mother India.

Only the two verses are adopted as national song. I'm aware of the lines that follow. Just avoid singing it. Singing something or reading is not shirk. Shirk is when a muslim start to see and worship Bharat mata as a goddess.

I was just curious as to why the singing of the above is a big issue since it is not even the national anthem?

I explained it already in my previous post #30.

 

[Levina]

it goes on to call "Mother", one's Lord.

Indeed.
Is there anything wrong with a mother being called a Lord?

Which could obviously imply to mean a mother Goddess, which would indeed be shirk.

A mother is being praised. That's all that it means.

 

[padamchen]

"To thee I call Mother and Lord!"

"Every image made divine
In our temples is but thine."

"Thou art Durga, Lady and Queen,
With her hands that strike and her swords of sheen,
Thou art Lakshmi lotus-throned,
And the Muse a hundred-toned,
Pure and perfect without peer,"

I admit I got these from Wiki so don't know if it's correct or not part of the modern one. But to me these verses are quite explicit in their meaning. At the end of the day, it is up to Indians to decide on this, I was just curious as to why the singing of the above is a big issue since it is not even the national anthem?

Those stanzas are not part of the national song.

As someone clarified earlier, only the first two are.

Cheers, Doc

 

[I.R.A]

I know what sajdah is.

My point is, when a Hindu speaks of bowing to his mother, it is akin to touching her feet.

Btw, we don't touch feet. It is completely culture incongruent for us.

But we do kneel and bow our forehead before God and His symbol of purity.

Much the same as was millennia later adopted by Islam as well.

Exactly as Islam's upturned palms, arms apart, looking upwards.

@I.R.A

Cheers, Doc

Islam didn't adopt anything .......... its message is still pure, the followers couldn't break the age old shackles and somehow felt the need to mold it to satisfy their insecurities.

Bowing to parents in real or not raising any objection to what they say is totally subcontinent thing (out of respect)............. I can quote example from Quran where adopted son of Messenger (Peace be upon him) didn't obey His (Peace be upon him) advice. Islam is about freedom of humans and it doesn't support any action that translates into direct slavery or symbols of being enslaved .... be it words related to a piece of land.

 

[Soulspeek]

I have heard that these verses of the original Vande Matram song are omitted. Only first two verses are considered to be our National Song.

Though I am not very sure of that. Can someone clarify please.

"To thee I call Mother and Lord!"

"Every image made divine
In our temples is but thine."

"Thou art Durga, Lady and Queen,
With her hands that strike and her swords of sheen,
Thou art Lakshmi lotus-throned,
And the Muse a hundred-toned,
Pure and perfect without peer,"

I admit I got these from Wiki so don't know if it's correct or not part of the modern one. But to me these verses are quite explicit in their meaning. At the end of the day, it is up to Indians to decide on this, I was just curious as to why the singing of the above is a big issue since it is not even the national anthem?