Shivalik Class Frigates Thread

[faithfulguy]

Thanks dude.......

Great info...

As far as P-17A is concern, there is no doubt about it that it's going to have great weapons( Offensive as well as defensive).

Project 17A class frigate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

We can see that we are building 7 of them!! and Lockheed Martin is offering Aegis Combat System to be included in its Project 17A frigate.....

But i think india should develop indigenous system.

I disagree. India won't be able to make something close to Aegis Combat system. Why build something inferior if a much better product is available? There are cases that India should develop its own technology such as missiles. But this would be a case that India should just purchase and deploy.

Also, before I'm attacked. I'm not saying that India cannot build any indigenous system by itself. All I'm saying is that India cannot build one that is even close as good as Aegis combat system.

 

[DMLA]

I also first thought about 2238 and I have mentioned it in my earlier post. But later rejected because the vertical arrays are much lower in 2238. Also BR guys who visited the commissioning ceremony confirmed that it is a new radar from Israel named AMDR ER.

As you can see, I have said that it is a "development" of star. It is quite obvious that the radar on shivalik doesn't look like any of the two israeili ones. Thus if it is a development, I would believe that it would be the STAR and not the AMDR looking at the specs and the system alone! I do not know anyone at BR confirming it to be AMDR! There is widespread speculation as always !

 

[sudhir007]

LiveFist - The Best of Indian Defence: Project-17(A) Frigates To Have Indian Weapon Fit, 127-mm Main Gun

The seven follow-on Project 17 (Alpha) stealth frigates to be built in India will have a significant Indian weapons fit. The Project 17 stealth frigate INS Shivalik that was commissioned into the Indian Navy yesterday is equipped with the Russian Shtil and Klub and Israeli Barak missile system. According to Mazagon Dock Ltd (MDL) chairman Vice Admiral (Retd) HS Malhi, the follow on Alpha series will carry the BrahMos anti-ship and land attack supersonic cruise missile in vertical configuration and the Barak-8 long-range surface to air missile (LR-SAM). MDL will build four of the P17(A) frigates, while the Garden Reach Shipbuilders (GRSE) will build the other three in Kolkata. The class feature frigates that will be longer and broader than the Shivalik-class. And instead of the Italian Otobreda 76-mm super rapid gun mount (SRGM), the P17(A) warships will have a 127-mm main gun, most likely the Otobreda 127/64 light weight gun.

 

[intelarpit]

I disagree. India won't be able to make something close to Aegis Combat system. Why build something inferior if a much better product is available? There are cases that India should develop its own technology such as missiles. But this would be a case that India should just purchase and deploy.

Also, before I'm attacked. I'm not saying that India cannot build any indigenous system by itself. All I'm saying is that India cannot build one that is even close as good as Aegis combat system.

I disagree. We can make a system something close to Aegis...just wait for some time.

Moreover your comment that "Why build something inferior if a much better product is available?" is totally absurd. No country in this world can make a super system at the start...they have to build step wise....so If we follow your advice then only USA should build and rest should buy

Moreover we are not competing with Aegis system because our neighbors dont have that and most probably will not have in future as well....

BTW we saved more than $2bn by making these Frigates

 

[Kinetic]

I disagree. We can make a system something close to Aegis...just wait for some time.

Moreover your comment that "Why build something inferior if a much better product is available?" is totally absurd. No country in this world can make a super system at the start...they have to build step wise....so If we follow your advice then only USA should build and rest should buy

Moreover we are not competing with Aegis system because our neighbors dont have that and most probably will not have in future as well....

BTW we saved more than $2bn by making these Frigates

India has its own Aegis combat system onboard P-17. It was not given any fancy name like Aegis.

BR gallery of INS Shivalik:

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/Galleries/News/Events/Shivalik/

 

[faithfulguy]

India has its own Aegis combat system onboard P-17. It was not given any fancy name like Aegis.

Really? That is cool. What is the name of India's indigenous AESA radar onboard P-17?

 

[Kinetic]

Really? That is cool. What is the name of India's indigenous AESA radar onboard P-17?

Who said you need AESA radar as an integral part of a combat system? Modern Combat system ensures multi-sensor and multi-weapon data fusion, does data exploitation, threat evaluation, controls and designates weapon systems as well as decision support system. It also 'enables central disposition and receipt of data to and from other platforms through data link system. Monitor the health and status of command, control and communication systems of the entire ship at a central location.' It also enable netcentric warfare and can be a flagship of a fleet. What do you need more from a combat system?

Aegis has AESA radars and longer range missiles but the combat system is almost same.

 

[faithfulguy]

Who said you need AESA radar as an integral part of a combat system? Modern Combat system ensures multi-sensor and multi-weapon data fusion, does data exploitation, threat evaluation, controls and designates weapon systems as well as decision support system. It also 'enables central disposition and receipt of data to and from other platforms through data link system. Monitor the health and status of command, control and communication systems of the entire ship at a central location.' It also enable netcentric warfare and can be a flagship of a fleet. What do you need more from a combat system?

Aegis has AESA radars and longer range missiles but the combat system is almost same.

Actually, its not known as the specs for the Indian system is
not known yet. But if you insist that its the same, I won't argue with you. You can have your own opinion and I can have mine.

 

[Kinetic]

Actually, its not known as the specs for the Indian system is
not known yet. But if you insist that its the same, I won't argue with you. You can have your own opinion and I can have mine.

Who said the specs are not known? Read these articles, I think you will understand Indian combat system which includes CMS-17.....

A significant addition of capabilities is in the form of the new Combat Management System, CMS 17, that will now be fitted on board all new warships. While the warship has the latest weaponry on board — including the Israeli Barak point air defence system, the Russian Shtil air defence system as well as Klub land attack and anti ship missiles — the new system gives it a crucial edge.

The Shivalik can incorporate information from any warship in the Indian naval fleet and use it to launch its weapons against a target. Unlike in the past when warships could only engage a target after detecting it from on board sensors like radars or sonar, the Shivalik can take in information from another warship or a passing aircraft and use it to home in on the target.

This not only gives it extended range to detect enemy ships or aircraft but also enhances its survivability as it is not exposed directly to enemy surveillance. Adding to its survivability are the inbuilt stealth features that, sources say, gives it a radar signature that is 90 per cent lesser that older ships of its size. The ship has structural, thermal and acoustic stealth features to make it difficult to detect on the high seas.

Shivalik commissioned, India enters stealth club - Yahoo! India News

Shivalik: India’s New Generation Warship | Indian Defence Review

AISDN (ATM based integrated ship borne data network)

Shivalik is fitted with third generation Composite Communication System (CCS), intelligent versatile communication system (IVCS), and sophisticated ATM based Integrated Ship Borne Data Network (AISDN) with fibre optics cable throughout the ship. The AISDN provides an integrated backbone network for voice, video, and data communications on a single broad band network. The AISDN has the following objectives :-

* Provide a networking backbone to integrate the data of weapons and sensors to all command and control systems as well as communication systems.
* Share weapon sensor data with each other in acceptable formats.
* Provide backbone to integrate internal and external communication systems.
* Monitor the health and status of command, control and communication systems at a central location.

The AISDN system provides the required flexibility and redundancy to the users on board. ATM (Asynchronous Transfer Mode) is a standardized digital data transmission technology and is a dedicated- connection switching technology that organizes digital data into 53- byte cell units and transmits them over a physical medium using digital signal technology. ATM has been seen as the ultimate networking technology that will allow broad band networking for the future. However fast Ethernet and gigabit Ethernet have brought more bandwidth to the LAN technology and is being preferred.

CAIO (Computer Aided Action Information Organization)

Towards ensuring a multi sensor, multi weapon scenario, the Project 17 Frigates are fitted with advanced CAIO system. The CAIO system collates all sensor data for exploitation, does threat evaluation, controls and designates weapon system. In CAIO, there is central availability of all sensor data to the command for supporting decision making. This ensures no duplicity of “action taken”. CAIO also ensures sensor data fusion. It allows for “informed” decision by command due overlay of radars, EW, and other available inputs. CAIO also enables central disposition and receipt of data to and from other platforms through data link system. The CAIO for Project 17 ships have been jointly developed by Indian Navy with foreign expert agency.

The Integrated Machinery Control System (IMCS) features multifunction displays with distributed Remote Terminal Units (RTUs) riding on a dual redundant Gigabit Ethernet data bus to monitor and control the ship’s propulsion and auxiliary systems including the Battle Damage Control System (BDCS). The Automated Power Management System (APMS) manages the generation and distribution of electric power in the ship. The ship has an ATM based Integrated Ship Data Network (AISDN) which serves as the backbone on which the external and internal communication systems, data communication between weapons and indigenous sensors and navigation data distribution are supported. The Integrated Versatile Console System (IVCS) replaces the earlier plug in systems providing multifunction display with touch screens for displaying all navigation data and status of weapons and sensors. The IVCS also supports the internal communication of the ship. The Combat management system, with fleet functionality, is a sophisticated development with considerable participation of the navy which will effectively co-ordinate the functions of the several weapons and sensors not only on board the ship but also those of other ships in company.

“The P-17 frigates, heralds a paradigm shift in the design” | Indian Defence Review

 

[SpArK]

 

[gogbot]

Perfect pic for the top ten list TY Benny

 

[Abingdonboy]

does anyone know what helicopters will be carried aboard, and if India is inducting more and more ships with helicopter operations capability shouldn't the IN also be inducting plenty more navy helos other than just a tender for 16?? the number should be in the 30s or 50s surely?

 

[gogbot]

does anyone know what helicopters will be carried aboard, and if India is inducting more and more ships with helicopter operations capability shouldn't the IN also be inducting plenty more navy helos other than just a tender for 16?? the number should be in the 30s or 50s surely?

The Navy operates 241 aircraft, including 18 (12 more added soon) combat jets, 13 tactical bombers, 145 helicopters and 30 UAVs.

 

[sudhir007]

does anyone know what helicopters will be carried aboard, and if India is inducting more and more ships with helicopter operations capability shouldn't the IN also be inducting plenty more navy helos other than just a tender for 16?? the number should be in the 30s or 50s surely?

Number will be increase around 50 ASW to replace old seaking.

 

[angeldemon_007]

I disagree. India won't be able to make something close to Aegis Combat system. Why build something inferior if a much better product is available?
Yeah aegis is available to us but in my opinion we should work on our own system, if we won't be able to succeed then wee can buy aegis. But if India goes for a JV with israel and france we could end up in developing something way better than US. India has been part of many JVs which are the best in the world even better than US.