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Shifting Pakistan and Saudi Arabia relations

Xestan

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Shifting Pakistan and Saudi Arabia relations

There is no crisis in Islamabad and Riyadh, but something serious is apparently going on between the two governments.

On July 16, Saudi Arabia’s King Abdullah held two major meetings in Jeddah — one with US National Security Advisor Tom Donilon, who has President Barack Obama’s ear on foreign policy, and the other with Prime Minister Raja Pervaiz Ashraf, the lame duck newbie whose tenure is tenuous and very temporary.

In his snubbing of President Asif Ali Zardari for three years, the Saudi monarch has made it clear that he can be quite selective about those he meets. So his holding of talks with Ashraf looks a bit odd. ‘Why Raja Rental?’ one might ask.

The meeting, which is said to have gone on longer than scheduled, was also attended by three leading Saudi national security officials, including the foreign minister and intelligence chief (who previously was the Saudi envoy to Islamabad). Interpreting for Abdullah and Ashraf was none other than Adel al-Jubeir, who is not only the Saudi ambassador to the US but is also a chief adviser to Abdullah. Al-Jubeir’s proximity to Abdullah is such that he is said to often fly to Saudi Arabia twice a week to counsel the octogenarian leader. And al-Jubeir, if you recall, once unabashedly said: “We, in Saudi Arabia, are not observers in Pakistan, we are participants.”

Given the energy crisis in Pakistan and Ashraf’s less-than-stellar record as water and power minister, official statements from Islamabad emphasised progress in bilateral energy cooperation. But the composition of the Saudi contingent suggests that the focus was on intelligence and security issues. Strangely, Ashraf was accompanied by his religious affairs minister and ambassador to Riyadh. The Pakistani delegation’s makeup did not correspond to that of their Saudi counterparts, which might mean that the meeting was impromptu and not planned in advance. It’s quite possible that Ashraf went to get another energy bailout, while the Saudis were keen on talking about other issues that mattered more to them.

Among those issues are Pakistan-India relations. Abdullah is said to have inquired about the state of normalisation talks between Pakistan and India. It’s likely that Saudi officials went into some detail regarding their government’s extradition of alleged Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) operative Abu Jundal to India. Abu Jundal has reportedly pointed towards ISI involvement in the November 2008 Mumbai attacks.

Despite their recent moves, the Saudis are not turning on Pakistan. They cannot and they will not in the short to midterm future. The Pakistan-Saudi Arabia partnership is the closest between any two countries that don’t have a formal treaty agreement, says former Saudi intelligence chief Turki bin Faisal. It’s a deeply-rooted security partnership whose importance has grown as Riyadh-Tehran tensions rise and sectarian uncertainty increases in eastern Saudi Arabia and Bahrain, which is why Prince Bandar bin Sultan met with President Zardari in Islamabad last year. And the Saudis most certainly will want to cooperate with Pakistan to keep a check on al Qaeda and stave off the Iranians and those can-do Qataris in Afghanistan. In extraditing Abu Jundal, Riyadh is probably responding to pressure from Washington, which sees the LeT as a group that not only killed Americans in Mumbai, but is also a potential threat beyond the subcontinent.

Still, Pakistani decision-makers should recognise that no bilateral partnership is permanent and shifts can be as impactful as all-out rifts. Ties with Riyadh will be indirectly shaped by Saudi Arabia’s eastward economic push. Since 2006, the Saudis have been expanding economic ties with China and India. By 2010, annual Indo-Saudi trade grew to $25 billion. Saudi Arabia now exports more oil to China than the US. India is its fourth largest oil export market.

Trade between Saudi Arabia and India is going beyond oil. Pakistan must look to forge a strategic economic partnership with Saudi Arabia, which has a sovereign wealth fund of nearly half a trillion dollars. It can’t simply be about bartering military cooperation or food for cheaper oil. The Saudis can make sizable profits in Pakistani commercial real estate, education, infrastructure, information technology and public transportation projects. But for them to do so requires Pakistan’s leaders to think outside the box before they get boxed in.

Published in The Express Tribune, July 19th, 2012.
 
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Again thanks to Zardari.....he did not left anything working in this country.

PIA bankrupt
Railway bankrupt
Steel mill messed up
Relation with Saudi messed up.
Relation with Afgan messed up.

I am sure next is China.....he will make sure before he leaves he will make Pakistan totally Handicap.
 
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Despite their recent moves, the Saudis are not turning on Pakistan. They cannot and they will not in the short to midterm future. The Pakistan-Saudi Arabia partnership is the closest between any two countries that don’t have a formal treaty agreement, says former Saudi intelligence chief Turki bin Faisal. It’s a deeply-rooted security partnership whose importance has grown as Riyadh-Tehran tensions rise

So at the cost of Tehran Pakistan will be rest assure about its partnership and for energy bailouts with Saudi Arabia. Hmmm..Interesting.

Also above article shows Saudi Arabia has lost interest in Pakistan's security calculus vis a vis India, are rather straight to the agenda of talking about security atmosphere Pakistan has made sore in South Asia given diplomatic arrangements they had during recent Pakistan PM visit. The sweet talk of Salman Bashir (Pakistan envoy to India) who was quite a foul mouth bravado before in India is a proof that the pressure is mounting from many directions including SA.

I think SA won't be able to extend any conventional or unconventional assistance they were providing before to Pakistan, which worked against their 4th largest oil importer India.
 
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So at the cost of Tehran Pakistan will be rest assure about its partnership and for energy bailouts with Saudi Arabia. Hmmm..Interesting.

Also above article shows Saudi Arabia has lost interest in Pakistan's security calculus vis a vis India, are rather straight to the agenda of talking about security atmosphere Pakistan has made sore in South Asia given diplomatic arrangements they had during recent Pakistan PM visit. The sweet talk of Salman Bashir (Pakistan envoy to India) who was quite a foul mouth bravado before in India is a proof that the pressure is mounting from many directions including SA.

I think SA won't be able to extend any conventional or unconventional assistance they were providing before to Pakistan, which worked against their 4th largest oil importer India.

Well, KSA-Pakistan relations are too deep to analyse keeping in view just these 2-3 points, there's a lot more than money in international relationships and when it comes to such historic ties, you can't just just sideline your allies just because you're having some good trade relations with their adversaries, example is China, they are having a good time in trade with you guys but that didn't affect Pak-China friendship at all, in fact it has grown in recent years.

As stated in the article, KSA and Pakistan has a unique relationship, they don't have a agreement but they are deeply involved and concerned about each other's security. Saudi and Pakistani rulers may sometime bow down to American pressure but they never cross the red line which can harm either country's interests.

KSA and Pakistan are still one of the best partners in world when it comes to helping each other in times of need.
 
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Saudis do not like Zardari due to his corruption.

theyve never really taken well with the whole bhutto dynasty...perhaps more so b/c of corruption but also b/c theyve always been more tight with the Sharif as well as military -esque circles....they perceive the bhuttos as more "iran friendly" and the saudi (royals) are very phobic of anything even remotely related to iran

Also above article shows Saudi Arabia has lost interest in Pakistan's security calculus vis a vis India, are rather straight to the agenda of talking about security atmosphere Pakistan has made sore in South Asia given diplomatic arrangements they had during recent Pakistan PM visit. The sweet talk of Salman Bashir (Pakistan envoy to India) who was quite a foul mouth bravado before in India is a proof that the pressure is mounting from many directions including SA..

no such pressure exists.....this guy jundal was an indian national, so naturally thats where he was deported to

if USA "pressure" doesnt cause much sway anymore than how can saudi or so-called 'indian pressure' (which doesnt even exist) have any sway?


as for security consideration, Saudis know we are a nuclear power and we can defend ourself against any tangible indian aggression...case closed
 
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Well, KSA-Pakistan relations are too deep to analyse keeping in view just these 2-3 points, there's a lot more than money in international relationships and when it comes to such historic ties, you can't just just sideline your allies just because you're having some good trade relations with their adversaries, example is China, they are having a good time in trade with you guys but that didn't affect Pak-China friendship at all, in fact it has grown in recent years.

As stated in the article, KSA and Pakistan has a unique relationship, they don't have a agreement but they are deeply involved and concerned about each other's security. Saudi and Pakistani rulers may sometime bow down to American pressure but they never cross the red line which can harm either country's interests.

KSA and Pakistan are still one of the best partners in world when it comes to helping each other in times of need.

Not a rocket science to analyse.

May be you should detail what makes your relation with KSA unique and deep rooted than typing mere slogans.

Pakistan is a unique SA's Wahhabi laboratory reviving free oil, otherwise Pakistan has nothing to offer may be nukes or strategic base to their ally USA against Iran. But then your relationship with Iran will become complicated for sure who is an immediate neighbour, proliferating nuclear technology to them is totally another hell of a ball game with many player involved including USA and Russia working against it.

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To India's concern SA should come clear and get our message (which was lost in some strange translation of their Wahhabi adventures and Muslim brotherhood they were selling (or Pakistan was exaggerating) to Pakistan) that their partnership with Pakistan shouldn't encourage her to work against India like Chinese nuclear proliferation did, thus not disturbing the peace in the region.

India is using its weight of trade and growing USA Iran tensions for constructive objectives. If in near future we run out of these chips then our constructive objective to keep peace in the region especially with Pakistan will give us high moral grounds on diplomatic forums to propagate. Not to forget our ever increasing strength in IOR have potential to check their oil sea lanes to China et al at whim.

That is why Pakistan has to digest its animosity with India for good reasons, earlier is better.
 
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So at the cost of Tehran Pakistan will be rest assure about its partnership and for energy bailouts with Saudi Arabia. Hmmm..Interesting.

Also above article shows Saudi Arabia has lost interest in Pakistan's security calculus vis a vis India, are rather straight to the agenda of talking about security atmosphere Pakistan has made sore in South Asia given diplomatic arrangements they had during recent Pakistan PM visit. The sweet talk of Salman Bashir (Pakistan envoy to India) who was quite a foul mouth bravado before in India is a proof that the pressure is mounting from many directions including SA.

I think SA won't be able to extend any conventional or unconventional assistance they were providing before to Pakistan, which worked against their 4th largest oil importer India.

you might have seen in last few years, we say we will give our life for you and hell with our country....but thats not what we do, dont go on our words dont go on our body language, just watch us
 
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I can't gather anything concrete in the report except the Saudi-Pak ties are great and will continue to be great and Pakistan should work towards making them greater. Anyone else find this report more informative like reading between the lines are inferring from ground situation?
 
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no such pressure exists.....this guy jundal was an indian national, so naturally thats where he was deported to

World has no appetite to digest these arguments, though you can impress some fanboys of PDF for sure.

The world is not that simple minded either the way Pakistanis thinks or assume.

Jundal is an India national was never the point of discord or concern. Such slogans only suite troll face Rehman Malik. Ask any sane strategist of Pakistan what he think about losing that asset in such a fashion.

as for security consideration, Saudis know we are a nuclear power and we can defend ourself against any tangible indian aggression...case closed



Your security concerns/games I was referring to were using SA as a safe heaven to dispose off Pakistan's assets working against India. Therefore above quoted comment doesn't deserve any answer.

However for sake of saying something, Pakistan may be nervous about some fictional tangible aggression from India but SA is not buying that because they (SA et al) know India is not that Impulsive given our record of last 10-15 years. Your nukes are as dud as they really are if India is not going to attack Pakistan without a good provocation; which world would accept as a Pakistani provocation.

Its time to smell the coffee.

you might have seen in last few years, we say we will give our life for you and hell with our country....but thats not what we do, dont go on our words dont go on our body language, just watch us

:rolleyes:
 
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I m not in favour in any type of conflict between Saudi Arabia and Iran. The rifts between muslims are played up on sectarian lines. These sectarians divisions, which are academic in nature are deliberately played up in western media to show there are difference on the ground.

Those who are unaccustomed, will point to random terrorist strikes by one sect on another. But it must be realized those attacks are undertaken by outfits claiming to this sect or that. On the ground, there are no divisions between the people.

Rift between Saudi Arabia and Iran on sectarian line will give an opportunity to poke further in the Middle East and create excuse for one misadventure or another.

For a moment if we believe that there such differences between muslims, then why US always benefits from them? Instead of infighting they must realize that by uniting they will ward off enemies, by arguing on non-issues, they will let their enemies in.
 
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^^^
Anything that puts a strain on KSA-Pakistan relationship is a good thing. I am not saying we make a enemy out of KSA but I do think we need to balance our relationship between KSA and Iran.

For a few barrels of oil we have paid a hefty price. We have allowed corrosive Wahabism to run rampant in Pakistan. This has led to sectarianism and killing of our Shia citizens.

We share a border with Iran and upto 1979 we had very good relationship with Iran. We need to go back to those times. We need to get the gas pipeline from Iran up and going. In the long run because Iran is our neighbour we would have much to gain.

This can only happen if we let go of Saudia Arabia.
 
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