Shiekh Rasheed Interview with Sami Ibrahim | May 3 2022

[waz]

I would disagree with that, but I am perfectly willing to wait and see how and if things work out any differently this time around.

I gathered that from your post, but yes let’s wait and see.
So far the momentum is getting stronger.

 

[VCheng]

I gathered that from your post, but yes let’s wait and see.
So far the momentum is getting stronger.

This month will show enough of a trend by its end, given what exPMIK has announced already. The key event will be the next elections, whenever they are held.

 

[blain2]

Words of The Almighty:

Please stop quoting Quran out of context. So Jews and Christians, people of the book, aren't to be trusted but no issues with trusting Godless Communists (I am just making a point here)?

And did anyone here say make the Americans our best friends ever? Did the Prophet SAW not maintain ties with Jews, Christians (even sending a party to Abissynia to gain the protection of the Christians king) and idol worshipers? I don't care much for religious dogma everywhere specially when it is blindly and oportunistically quoted in political discourse.

We should learn to make hay while the sun shines. This means we should look for opportunities everywhere. Instead of quoting scripture to me, you should ponder over why IK and PTI did not cut trading ties with the Jews and Christians of EU and the US along with getting rid of interest based banking in Pakistan. To that query, nothing but crickets chirping.

 

[Ghazwa-e-Hind]

Please stop quoting Quran out of context. So Jews and Christians, people of the book, aren't to be trusted but no issues with trusting Godless Communists (I am just making a point here)?

And did anyone here say make the Americans our best friends ever? Did the Prophet SAW not maintain ties with Jews, Christians (even sending a party to Abissynia to gain the protection of the Christians king) and idol worshipers? I don't care much for religious dogma everywhere specially when it is blindly and oportunistically quoted in political discourse.

We should learn to make hay while the sun shines. This means we should look for opportunities everywhere. Instead of quoting scripture to me, you should ponder over why IK and PTI did not cut trading ties with the Jews and Christians of EU and the US along with getting rid of interest based banking in Pakistan. To that query, nothing but crickets chirping.

I am not quoting it out of context.

We have been told not to take jews and christians as our guardians.

Maintaining ties and trade is one thing, but fighting their war (which clearly is based on evil intentions) is another thing.

Yet we are repeatedly doing it, seeking protection from them through IMF, F-16s, Coalition Support Funds, Loans, giving shamsi airbase resulting in drone attacks on our own land, and now a PM was ousted because he resisted this slavery. It's shameful to even justify this.

 

[blain2]

I am not quoting it out of context.

We have been told not to take jews and christians as our guardians.

Maintaining ties and trade is one thing, but fighting their war (which clearly is based on evil intentions) is another thing.

Yet we are repeatedly doing it, seeking protection from them through IMF, F-16s, Coalition Support Funds, Loans, giving shamsi airbase resulting in drone attacks on our own land, and now a PM was ousted because he resisted this slavery. It's shameful to even justify this.

Yet we can marry Jews and Christians? So imagine being a married couple and not trusting your wife who happens to be a Christian or a Jew. It sounds and is completely stupid which is why "context" is all important!

Don't apply general assumptions to verses that had a specific interpretation for a time and place.

Muslims have relied on Christians and Jews to assist them in our 1400 year long history. Remember the heavy artillery employed by Sultan Mehmet that won the Muslims Jerusalem? It was a Serbian Christian who designed it, supplied it and supported it during the campaign against the Crusaders. Imagine that, a key capability which was entrusted by the Ottoman king to a Christian.

And while we sit here wasting our energies talking about centuries old dogma (I.e. we should not trust Christians!), another example of our Turkish Islamist friends making hay while the sun shines.

Biden moves to strike US arms deal with Turkey, report says, as Erdogan uses Ukraine peacemaker role to restore reputation in DC

Turkey has since last year been trying to get the US to approve two deals which would see it buy 40 F-16 fighter jets and parts.

www.yahoo.com

 

[Ghazwa-e-Hind]

Yet we can marry Jews and Christians? So imagine being a married couple and not trusting your wife who happens to be a Christian or a Jew. It sounds and is completely stupid which is why "context" is all important!

Don't apply general assumptions to verses that had a specific interpretation for a time and place.

Muslims have relied on Christians and Jews to assist them in our 1400 year long history. Remember the heavy artillery employed by Sultan Mehmet that won the Muslims Jerusalem? It was a Serbian Christian who designed it, supplied it and supported it during the campaign against the Crusaders. Imagine that, a key capability which was entrusted by the Ottoman king to a Christian.

And while we sit here wasting our energies talking about centuries old dogma (I.e. we should not trust Christians!), another example of our Turkish Islamist friends making hay while the sun shines.

Biden moves to strike US arms deal with Turkey, report says, as Erdogan uses Ukraine peacemaker role to restore reputation in DC

Turkey has since last year been trying to get the US to approve two deals which would see it buy 40 F-16 fighter jets and parts.

www.yahoo.com

Lets simplify this:

US drone flying from Shamsi Airbase, Pakistan; dropping bombs in Tribal areas, targetting weddings, madrassas, women, children in Pakistan.

Right or wrong?

 

[blain2]

Lets simplify this:

US drone flying from Shamsi Airbase, Pakistan; dropping bombs in Tribal areas, targetting weddings, madrassas, women, children in Pakistan.

Right or wrong?

How is that connected here?

You had no qualms using the help of the Christians and Jews when you received millions of doses of Covid Vaccine, then you never complained about receiving millions of dollars in aid and thousands of sorties being flown by US Helicopters all over our Northwest during 2005 EQ for relief work from these very same people of the book. This in addition to the aid of the Christians and Jews for the polio eradication efforts, and the billions in economic and military assistance since 1958...the list is a long one. Let's not cherry pick.

But for perspective sake, let me put forth the following: The use of Shamsi base and strikes in the FATA were not in isolation. AQ was in Afghanistan under the protection of the Taliban. There was a war after the Americans felt they were "unjustly" attacked by AQ, which was based in Afghanistan, that resulted in American school going children, men, women, elderly all dying. As a result, the US, under UN resolution cover, initiated the war against the Taliban. When these folks started moving out of Afghanistan into our FATA, the Americans went after them. So there is a whole table of events that we cannot set aside and just pick one event to build our logic. Yes, collateral damage and deaths of innocents happened. The same is the case for those who died on 9/11 in NY etc.

I know this is not a popular line of reasoning because most Pakistanis tend to put the 9/11 casualties under the "conspiracy/inside job" bucket and literally wash the hands of Taliban and AQ off it. Then they tend to only focus on FATA casualties as something that just happened in a vacuum. It did not, our history with Taliban had something to do with the way things panned out. As an observer of history, you have to look at both cause and effect. Not just one side of it.

Our 80,000 dead mostly came from our own blowing up other Pakistanis or shooting them dead. Less than 5% of the casualties came from US drone attacks. What about the rest? IK says this was not our war. Well it became our war because we were the benefactors of Taliban. We could not possibly support the Taliban and expect Americans to not do anything about it.

 

[Ghazwa-e-Hind]

How is that connected here?

You had no qualms using the help of the Christians and Jews when you received millions of doses of Covid Vaccine, then you never complained about receiving millions of dollars in aid and thousands of sorties being flown by US Helicopters all over our Northwest during 2005 EQ for relief work from these very same people of the book. This in addition to the aid of the Christians and Jews for the polio eradication efforts, and the billions in economic and military assistance since 1958...the list is a long one. Let's not cherry pick.

But for perspective sake, let me put forth the following: The use of Shamsi base and strikes in the FATA were not in isolation. AQ was in Afghanistan under the protection of the Taliban. There was a war after the Americans felt they were "unjustly" attacked by AQ, which was based in Afghanistan, that resulted in American school going children, men, women, elderly all dying. As a result, the US, under UN resolution cover, initiated the war against the Taliban. When these folks started moving out of Afghanistan into our FATA, the Americans went after them. So there is a whole table of events that we cannot set aside and just pick one event to build our logic. Yes, collateral damage and deaths of innocents happened. The same is the case for those who died on 9/11 in NY etc.

I know this is not a popular line of reasoning because most Pakistanis tend to put the 9/11 casualties under the "conspiracy/inside job" bucket and literally wash the hands of Taliban and AQ off it. Then they tend to only focus on FATA casualties as something that just happened in a vacuum. It did not, our history with Taliban had something to do with the way things panned out. As an observer of history, you have to look at both cause and effect. Not just one side of it.

Our 80,000 dead mostly came from our own blowing up other Pakistanis or shooting them dead. Less than 5% of the casualties came from US drone attacks. What about the rest? IK says this was not our war. Well it became our war because we were the benefactors of Taliban. We could not possibly support the Taliban and expect Americans to not do anything about it.

This economic & military assistance is a curse. Pakistan is better off without it. We will learn to be self sufficient, instead of acting like a drug addict begging for a dose after withdrawal.

Yet Pakistan is repeating the same mistakes, now drone bases are being negotiated. Imran Khan govt overthrown to please the western masters

I have nothing against the people of the book. They just cannot be our guardians, you cannot handover your sovereignty to them in a platter and give your strategic airbases to conduct airstrikes and spying missions on your land or abroad.


Like I said, trade and peace operations from both sides are welcome, but no war time alliance.

9/11 had nothing to do with Pakistan, it was not our war.

The 80,000 casualties were all related to the mess created after being part of US WoT (not our war to begin with) post 9/11 we started attacking the same people which US once declared "Mujahideens, Peace Warriors" that defeated soviet union. It backfired obviously.

The ideology of Pakistan which is based on Islam, can never be compatible with Imperialist country like US.

Pakistan was created as a welfare state, not an expansionist or imperalist country

It is better to adapt austerity than shamelessly living off the coalition support funds dollars with innocent people's blood stains all over them

 

[blain2]

This economic & military assistance is a curse. Pakistan is better off without it. We will learn to be self sufficient, instead of acting like a drug addict begging for a dose after withdrawal.

Yet Pakistan is repeating the same mistakes, now drone bases are being negotiated. Imran Khan govt overthrown to please the western masters

I have nothing against the people of the book. They just cannot be our guardians, you cannot handover your sovereignty to them in a platter and give your strategic airbases to conduct airstrikes and spying missions on your land or abroad.


Like I said, trade and peace operations from both sides are welcome, but no war time alliance.

9/11 had nothing to do with Pakistan, it was not our war.

The 80,000 casualties were all related to the mess created after being part of US WoT (not our war to begin with) post 9/11 we started attacking the same people which US once declared "Mujahideens, Peace Warriors" that defeated soviet union. It backfired obviously.

The ideology of Pakistan which is based on Islam, can never be compatible with Imperialist country like US.

Pakistan was created as a welfare state, not an expansionist or imperalist country

It is better to adapt austerity than shamelessly living off the coalition support funds dollars with innocent people's blood stains all over them

So who is making them our guardian? Do you see the Turks making them their guardians? Have they EVER been our guardians? The answer is an emphatic NO!

So why bother giving air to populist, misplaced talk about "guardianship"? If you don't want them to be our financial guardians, then remove the financial shackles by paying taxes and ending the budget deficit. I am all for being proud of our poverty and living austerely. However, is anyone else? Can you afford to when your budget deficit and debt servicing consumes 60% of your fiscal budget?

And we should also stop repeating "9/11 had nothing to do with Pakistan, it was not our war." This is like burying our head in the sand and denying what is happening around us. It was not in our control or power to not be a part of this war. It was happening right next door to us. Musharraf picked the lesser of the two evils by trying to fight AQ moving inside of Pakistan, the other choice was to say no to Americans and then have them conduct operations inside Pakistan proper unilaterally. As such had he taken no action and just repeated the litany (as is suggested by IK and many PTI members) of "not our war", the US/ISAF forces would have come inside of Pakistan proper to conduct operations. The same as what the US did in Cambodia.

The only thing that limited their incursions was having our own troops in FATA fighting off AQ and TTP later. So the nation's establishment did what it *always* does, i.e. it picked the path that would shield Pakistan from most destruction as was possible. Some pain was going to come either way, yet their calculus, and I agree with it, was to pick the path that would allow Pakistan to manage with the least amount of damage. What if direct American intervention had led to war with Pakistan and the 80,000 dead became 180,000 dead with billions of damage to the infra?

So this is not simply about imperialism. At the height of Muslim empire, our forefathers too were imperialists. Ideally if Pakistan regains its stature, it would certainly want to be an Imperialist power to protect its interests and those of others in the Ummah.

 

[Ghazwa-e-Hind]

So who is making them our guardian? Do you see the Turks making them their guardians? Have they EVER been our guardians? The answer is an emphatic NO!

So why bother giving air to populist, misplaced talk about "guardianship"? If you don't want them to be our financial guardians, then remove the financial shackles by paying taxes and ending the budget deficit. I am all for being proud of our poverty and living austerely. However, is anyone else? Can you afford to when your budget deficit and debt servicing consumes 60% of your fiscal budget?

And we should also stop repeating "9/11 had nothing to do with Pakistan, it was not our war." This is like burying our head in the sand and denying what is happening around us. It was not in our control or power to not be a part of this war. It was happening right next door to us. Musharraf picked the lesser of the two evils by trying to fight AQ moving inside of Pakistan, the other choice was to say no to Americans and then have them conduct operations inside Pakistan proper unilaterally. As such had he taken no action and just repeated the litany (as is suggested by IK and many PTI members) of "not our war", the US/ISAF forces would have come inside of Pakistan proper to conduct operations. The same as what the US did in Cambodia.

The only thing that limited their incursions was having our own troops in FATA fighting off AQ and TTP later. So the nation's establishment did what it *always* does, i.e. it picked the path that would shield Pakistan from the most destruction possible. Some pain was going to come either way, yet their calculus, and I agree with it, was to pick the path that would allow Pakistan to manage with the least amount of damage. What if direct American intervention had led to war with Pakistan and the 80,000 dead became 180,000 dead with billions of damage to the infra?

So this is not simply about imperialism. At the height of Muslim empire, our forefathers too were imperialists. Ideally if Pakistan regains its stature, it would certainly want to be an Imperialist power to protect its interests and those of others in the Ummah.

You are saying that Pakistan should do everything the West asks and be obedient slave, just because we are under debt?

When the ~$130 billion debt was piling up, corrupt leaders imposed via politicial engineering instead of democratic process. The institutions just watched as spectators, instead of stopping the tyranny.

In the last 74 years, every Pakistani democratically elected leader was either ousted or killed (Liaqat Ali Khan, Fatima Jinnah, Zulfiqar Bhutto etc.), that started day after demise of Quaid-e-Azam. The American influence sure looks lavish, dollars incoming but it has destroyed our values, we become greedy and try to justify every wrongdoing because $

Regarding the taxes, the common people are already paying tons of indrect taxes already. Imran Khan govt regained trust of people, the tax collection increased massively, and then he was thrown out cause of uncle Sam threats.

I disagree with your bowing down approach/strategy. My grand parents were migrants that left everything in India for Pakistan, my ancestors took part in independence movement. I cant endorse your ideology.

You do you, I stick to what my leader Imran Khan says.

Peace.