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Sheikh Mujeeb-ur-Rehman famous speech against the neutrals: Joy Bangla! Joy Pakistan!

So, the mainstay Army wasn't "the" problem, it was specifically Bhutto, Yahya Khan, and other individuals. It only takes individuals to ideate treachery, but disinformation, mob mentality, and emotions for groups to implement it.

Our failure was not spotlighting Yahya Khan, Bhutto, etc, early enough to stop them.

Arent we repeating the same mistakes today? Will we be putting it on Bajwa, Naveed Anjum, and a few others 30 years later? If it is a failure of not spotlighting in time then we have an inherent problem within the army structure itself where few individuals can shape the entire course of a nation-state either for their own vested interests, short-sightedness, or sheer incompetence.

We as a state have a habit of repeating the same mistakes over and over again while expecting different results which is also referred to as insanity.
 
Yes my friend. I agree we would have gone our separate ways. Geographically, ethnically and culturally we are too distant but the tragedy is the way the split took place. In 1960s, 1970s many of my family were in Pak Army and some fought in BD. The effect of this on me as a young boy was extreme hatred for BD people. The hate permeated to us from our elders and this was in UK. I actually went out looking to beat up BD boys.

Even now after decades when Indians use 1971 It ranckles me and I get agitated. But I have I hope overcome my hatred for BD people and now increasingly respect them for the economic miracle you guys have pulled off. And I must admit your women do have cetain charm and exotic flavour.

beat up, hey in my town, 90s there were wars, involving knives, bars, dogs, cars, group gangs jumping you. schools have police presence, town centre cut off from school students entering.
 
I see things differently what I heard from older relatives

Because West Pakistan had enough of always trying to please East Pakistanis and finally developed the courage to say no more.

East Pakistanis also had a history of blaming all their social & political problems on West Pakistanis.

By 1970s, the political dispute was pending but Bengali right wingers and their militias took the situation in their hands and relentlessly started attacking and killing anyone they saw their enemy, including West Pakistani civilians and fellow Bengalis

Lol what nonsense

Said no more to own people??? Said no more to people of East Pakistan?

General Arora k samain surrender karna qabool hai laikin apnai logon k samain sar jhukana nahi qabool???
 
Once again, to set the record straight in the face of this utterly nonsensical rhetoric of "neutrals this and that":

It was not the military that insisted MuR be kept out of power. One has to read to understand what transpired there. It was the Punjab-Sind political elite in West Pakistan that blocked the formation of MuR's government.

Gen Yahya was looking for a way out to hand over control as he was put in that situation after Ayub Khan was forced to depart. Yahya became the CMLA after Ayub not because the former wanted it, rather because he was the next man up after Ayub Khan. The attempts to conduct elections were disrupted by the massive typhoon in East Pakistan so all of these things were playing out in the backdrop. However, there were countless discussions with MuR, Bhutto and other Pakistani politicians facilitated by Gen Yahya Khan but unfortunately all for nought BECAUSE the political elite in West Pakistan was not willing to let MuR and AL form a national government post elections which MuR won fair and square.

So the first rule of the book is to OWN up to our collective failures in letting the East Pakistanis down instead of selectively tarnishing only the military.

There is this recent revisionist urge here and it is clear why that is being voiced. Its simply because a certain political party and its base is on the losing end for now. Keep in mind that PPP, PML-N all have had to vacate the chair and go into opposition in the past and IK and PTI were just fine with them not being able to finish their term. Now the shoe is on the other foot unfortunately and my purpose here is not to rub salt, rather to make people realize that irrational venting at the military under the stupid garb of "neutrals" is counter-productive for our entire country.

Let me also say for the sake of introspection, had the PTI not relied on the ISI crutch in the first place, they would not have been dependents. There were missteps by the PTI government on all fronts. But like other governments in the past, they too need to learn from them and hopefully will be better equipped next go around compared to PML/PPP.
Bs bhai, pti walon ko her jagah aik hi chez nazar aarahi Hai aajkal... 😁
 
A lot of what is stated is because we enjoy the benefit of hindsight. Yes, the establishment has acted extra-constitutionally in the past, no denying that, however not everything is wrong/extra-constitutional or a case of the establishment going against majority. Case in point, the PTI's ouster. The establishment does what it thinks is best for Pakistan, the same as the policies of any of the political parties when in power. Do these parties always have absolute mandate when they push their policies through? No, so just like that is an imperfection, so are the calls made by the establishment.


Army, primarily of West Pakistani origin, was cajoled to ensure West retained its leadership of the Federation of Pakistan over the East. Who cajoled the military? One should ask that question as the politicians in the West were not open/allowing MuR to form government. ZAB was hell-bent against it as were countless other Punjab based politicians. One should look up the newspaper reports from the time. I did that in microfiche format in the late 90s at the Library of Congress. Countless leaders spoke out against it and were asking the military to take action for the sake of Pakistan's survival (I was reminded of the same during the Lal Masjid Operation days when everyone was asking why the Army is not taking action only to leave the blame on the army after action was taken).


Army did not kill him. You should ask the family of Nawab Muhammad Ahmed Khan Kasuri about what transpired there. A murder was committed of this gentleman and the criminal case implicated ZAB as having been behind that case. Yes, Zia did approve his death sentence but a civilian court prosecuted his case lodged (in 1974) before Zia Ul Haq took power in 1978. So these facts should be kept in mind before assigning blame to the army. A mercy petition on the death sentence went to the President of Pakistan (Zia) and he rejected it. That was the only part that Zia played in it. No other army personnel were ever involved in either framing the case or prosecution etc.


Yes, agreed that establishment supported NS because the Army high command did not trust BB as she was deemed too close to the West and anti-army then and just like it used ISI to support IK in 2017-18, similarly it tried to influence national elections. However, NS was as popular as BB (the usual Punjab vs. Sind split) so it wasn't a case of the establishment supporting a minority leader in NS.


Army preserved its own leadership which was not being allowed to land after the then CoAS visiting SL. There were a lot of other misalignments too including Kargil, tussle with the judiciary, corruption cases etc. and the ongoing, dire situation with the economy that resulted in the establishment taking over the government. I don't condone this but also feel that in those times, the public came out thanking the military for booting NS out of office given the mess that had existed.


I think it is a misinterpretation to see establishment as supporting PDM. There has been a reset till next elections. PTI took certain support for granted to stay in power. That support was withdrawn. However there is no support for PDM nor PTI currently. Imran may be the most popular leader for a certain segment of the society, but that does not translate into PTI winning absolute majority at the polls. On top of that, IK/PTI made plenty of decisions that hurt Pakistan as well and we are living through these issues now. The same goes for all involved including the establishment in the past.

Sir, people ain't willing to buy this popular patriotic claptrap any longer. For far too long they had been following the trajectory of "political correctness" regarding the countless "transgressions" by the so called Military leadership.

This US-sponsored judicial coup by midnight courts, orchestrated at the behest of Bajwa & co, is a rude wake-up call for the People of Pakistan who were under a false illusion that the Military/Establishment always defends Pakistan's national interests.

And if you actually believe that "Army is not supporting PDM" then I don't think there's anything to discuss.

Have a good day, Janab
 
TBH, he should have been more diplomatic and should have invested to keep the establishment happy. He tried to bring change without securing his government. Thats an idiotic move in my pov...
I thought that Pakistani military establishment is pro China!

After fall of Imran Khan , I now know I was dead wrong!

Mr Imran Khan , fall after openly criticizing western hegemony ! However with his brave move he shall always have a special place in my heart !

He is a real hero with backbone. Unfortunately subcontinent are unworthy of having such brave and honest leader!
 
This famous speech of Sheikh Mujeeb-ur-Rehman is an eye opener. It exposes the lies of neutrals aka property dealers who still claim that the guy who won 1970's elections under military regime fair and square was actually a traitor!
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He was never in favour of seceding East Pakistan. The equation changed completely when the Pakistani establishment overreacted on 25th March killing civilians indiscriminately and arresting BB.
 
Lol what nonsense

Said no more to own people??? Said no more to people of East Pakistan?

General Arora k samain surrender karna qabool hai laikin apnai logon k samain sar jhukana nahi qabool???

What’s none sense about it mate. your cousins; Bangladeshis , were happily calling national Urdu language a alien foreign invasion in there society replacing there mother bangali one. They used it as a great recruiting ground for Bangladeshis movement, while others like me Pashtuns, baluchi, Kashmiris, Sindhis Punjabi others were fine with it not them , were you going to give them an exception from it while rest of us were had to use it. they made it a national demand to drop your Urdu lol. And according to there myths you were also exploiting and ripping them off wealth, there list of demands on you are long as your arm, if you want to beat yourself up for there betrayal that’s up to you something rest of us are not going go with it
 
Yawr kitne rondu ho tum PTI wale....Now you are quoting Mujib the great traitor to score points for Khan.What's next?? May be you can quote American officials too. They have also exposed Pak Army many times.😁😄
 
Yawr kitne rondu ho tum PTI wale....Now you are quoting Mujib the great traitor to score points for Khan.What's next?? May be you can quote American officials too. They have also exposed Pak Army many times.😁😄
Mujib was not a traitor. If you want to blame anyone for losing East Pakistan. Blame that idiot Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto.
 
Mujib was not a traitor. If you want to blame anyone for losing East Pakistan. Blame that idiot Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto.
He orchestrated horrendous crimes against civilians to fuel his secession.Also the way he treated his own people after East Pakistan separation is evidence to his true character. ZAB shares the blame too, since both of them wanted uninterrupted power for themselves, instead of sharing it or working things out.
 

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