Sharia Law

[waraich66]

usa has violence problems but we are at least self-conscious of it because domestic violence that is reported to the authorities is documented and reported in an orderly way. after all, who wants to live by a rapist? convicted rapists, child molestors are classified as sex offenders, and as a condition of their release from prison (a typical sentence for rape is 10 years) is that they report their new permanent residence to the municipal authorities in order that they can call a town hall meeting or otherwise alert nearby residents of his presence. obviously in some circumstances the woman or child will not or cannot report the abuse, but if the police get involved then there will be no secrecy. even if a senator or PRESIDENT does something criminal and is found out the media will be hungry and free to expose them.

Blocking of YouTube - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

the choice instead seems to be between sharia censorship, which subordinates the truth out of some insecurity or pride, and liberal western expression, which respects the viewer to determine on his own the credibility of competing media outlets, scrutinize articles and cross reference their sources, and reason the facts according to his own faculties without the state or some conspiratorial mullah doing it for him.

Agreed that US or UK has violance control system and appreciable and your justice system having acceptable level of justice.Which are main factors of vibrant and conducive society.

Islam allow critisim through any mean even ruler is not beyond critisim but practically since this system does not exist in muslim countries so there is lot of fear in western society about shariah .

Yes Mullah have actually distroyed our society ,responsible for creating division in muslims and ultimately whole society divided into small sects and start functioning in different directions some time out of control as you can see in SWAT and FATA ,in this case government mechanisim paralized and violation and crimes increases.

Mosque should act as focal point for muslim society , Masjid Nabvi was functioning as community center,supreme court,crime control and welfare policy making place and education center during our Prophet Muhammad PBUH era.

Islam dont want disintegration of econimic and social and religious life .

 

[niaz]

No Muslim will disagree that Sharia is the best Law if applied without prejudice and equally to all Muslims. This is the theory. However in practice, Sharia Law ceased to be applied with equal justice to all Muslims at the end of Khilafat Rashida.

Let see actual application.

For example very soon there became two classes of Muslims. Muala and Mawali.
Mawalis were non Arab Muslims of Iranian. Turkic and Egyptian origin. (At that time Egypt was not considered an Arab Land, it was mostly Coptic). Even though these non Arabs were Muslims, they were required to pay ‘Jizia’ until the end of Umayyad Caliphate and were barred from high civil and military positions.

Have you wondered why Arabs sided with the English against the Ottoman Khalifas? All senior military and civil offices were restricted to Turkic people, local Arabs were subordinate and not treated as equal. Not too different from how the ruling English treated the local Indians during the Raj.

In the context of Pakistan and Afghanistan, you have seen how the Sharia Law has been applied. Would you consider compulsory keeping of beard, wearing shalwar above the ankles and banning education for women as Sharia? This is what is actually practiced by the people who want Sharia Law imposed on Pakistan (Swat and Waziristan).

Let us take it one step further. You know Pakistan police. I don’t mind if you cut the hand of the person who actually stole. In Pakistan, you may have actually committed the crime, but an innocent by stander may lose his hand instead; you will finds hundreds of false witnesses to vouch for your innocence and poor man’s guilt. Even during Eid you find people falsely swearing that they have sighted the moon, when it could not possibly exist.

Drinks were banned in Kuwait when I was working for KNPC and every day one saw picture of foreigners sentenced for selling illicit liquor. However, In the KNPC official parties in Kuwait drinks were served freely. Even in the UAE justice is not uniform. A foreigner is far more likely to get punishment even if he is innocent if his opponent in a national. I know for certain that most of the locals get their parking fine and speeding fines reduced whereas expatriates have to carry the full burden.

My Honorable friend. I have no quarrels with the imposition of the Sharia law. I simply believe that Pakistani society is so dishonest that imposition of Sharia will be a great injustice to the man on the street.

 

[DarkStar]

Sharia is as much about the people it is going to be impelemented on, as the laws itself. Sharia law in Pakistan would be a disaster, as people would simply reject it. One cannot cultivate on the ocean.

One point i'd like to make, though. Shariah has been applied very successfully both in the umayyad and Abbasi period, however implementation has always depended upon the leadership. If the leadership at a given point in Islamic history has been correct and upright, the laws have been implemented correctly. AT other times, bad leaders led to bad implementation.

As for new muslims paying jizya, this was curtailed by Caliph Omar bin Abdul Aziz, who prohibited this practice. He was an Umayyad.

 

[araz]

Brother Niaz.
ASSalam o Aalaikum.
I have read your post in detail , and have tried in my earlier post to answe some of the questions raised. The problem is in peopels interpretation of individual acts as acts of Islam,and on that basis malign Islam and Sharia. The other problem is the promulgations of LAw withjout any effort at educating the society,and reforming it through education. This as you all know will lead to failure and chaos.
Looking even at the times of the Khulafa e Rashideen, you get the feeling of doom right from the times of HAzrat Uthman(RA) to thhe times of HAzrat Ali(RA), Imam HAssan(RA). What happened was possibly the tribal nature of arab society taking over. As Khilafat turned into monarchy, we saw a lot of problems but also a will on the part of these pious men( certainly more than a sinner like me!!)to stick to the Sharia.
The problem I want to highlight is that without education and continued reinforcement of the basic principles and a system of cecks and balances, we will not be able to enforce Sharia and do justice enough to it to stand in front of Allah SWT on Day of judgement and say that we have done our best.
The main problem in Pakistan remains education. Our emphasis has remained on Hifz rather than understanding.This is the basic hing that needs to change. People need to ask questions and receive suitable and simple answers. We also need to spend as much time teaching religion as we do sciences. I dont think youi can understand tyhe Quran without having a broad education in sciences and having a wide field of perception. This is why I have stressed again and again the need to self educate oneself in Quran and Sunnah. I dont think Sharia will be enforced without proper education and sestablishemnt of a good system.
WaSalam
Araz

 

[DarkStar]

Two very good posts. I'd like to interject in the Caliphate became Monarchy issue. Although a lot has been said against it lately, I do not see any scriptural condemnation of monarchy in Islam.

Monarchy as practiced in Islamic history is not the same as european style hereditary monarchy with a royal bloodline. Instead, it is a system of nominating an heir, something that is established from the KHulafa rashideen.

Secondly, there is mention of Kings in teh Qur'aan who were prophets, such As Kings DAvid and Solomon, and others in Hadeeth. That means, that monarchy in itself is not evil or unIslamic, per se.

It is not the way a leader is selected, but the calibre of the leader that is important. I agree there must be checks and balances, and the system of Shura along with indipendance of the Qazi ul Quza are important components in this regard.

 

[waraich66]

Shariah is great blessing of God ,which need lot of preperation before implementation as we know that in Makkah there were no restriction of veil,riba etc more emphesis was on development of IMAN .

Agreed that at present in pakistan if shariah implemented there is chance that lot of people react and dont accept it.


Most of religious political parties e.g MMA expoliting Islam to gain power and also force implementation of islam by jehadi mullahs in SWAT furthure increased hatred .

Present western style democracy also failed in Pakistan ,any person having big vote bank can form government and then they started their own agenda of misuse of power.


There is need first to increase understanding and education level of general public through a continues process of Dawah at grass root level.

 

[waraich66]

Keysersoze;221669]Possibly the most retarded post I have yet seen.
Wonder what happened to the Taliban who followed "sharia " law. wonder if it helped them when the yanks dropped a big ole bomb on them?

What happened with Talaban is due to their wrong actions and daviation from islamic teachings but what yanks are doing now killing innocient citizens and POWs is vialation of international human rights.

I love the answer that god only punishes muslims who fail and spares the non muslims from the punishment. That would seem to be a bad deal for Muslims. There must have been a lot of muslims in San Francisco because that place has natural disasters all the time. Same with Cuba and new Orleans And Florida And central America and Japan And China. And the droughts in Africa those too...and where else in the world ah yes the moronic reference to the TSUNAMI which seems to gloss over the fact that a lot of the people who died were in fact not muslim.
Hey Malaria is strong in muslim countries too! Maybe that is a sign from god too!

You misunderstood here ,Allah send natural disaster to punish nation as a whole to create example for other ,before islam this was practice of Allah also read history of Qume smud and AAD ,Qume lute etc.

Law of Allah for non muslim and muslims is different ,Allah always treat any nation or person with justice .

The question has to be asked as well whether stupidity is a punishment from god too! because it seems some people have been badly punished on this forum!

We should maintain good atmosphere of this forum no one is above law and have right to insult any member.

There I was thinking medieval thinking had finished a few 100 years ago!

[/QUOTE]

Islamic laws and shariah is for whole mankind uptill last day or dome day.Shariah law is perfect ,problem lies in understanding and method of implementation.

 

[Shiny Capstar]

You lot can have your Sharia lark, but if someone tries to put it in place around my parts they are going to have a fight on their hands. Mind you that goes for any religion trying to force its teachings on me. (I'm agnostic in case you can't guess)

 

[waraich66]

You lot can have your Sharia lark, but if someone tries to put it in place around my parts they are going to have a fight on their hands. Mind you that goes for any religion trying to force its teachings on me. (I'm agnostic in case you can't guess)

Sharia provide protection of rights for both muslims and non muslims ,problem is muslims are creating hindrence for non muslims by not practicing the islam .

Presently we need to focus on muslims so that their faith and IMAN(Phase1) increases to certain level so that we can establish conducive environment which is required for implementation shariah law(Phase2).

Phase 1 ,which is presently continued which is most difficult phase ,for which you need lot of effort to physically develop network all over the world.

Islam is gaining ground and spreading very fast in Europe,America and Russia,reason is material development failed to provide the spiritual needs of humanity ,that is why suicidols graph is very much high in developed countries,peace of mind you can only get through direct link with God.

 

[Rehmat]

Islamic Shari'ah laws are not cast in stone. Some of them are based on the old revelations (Moses' laws) - but most of them were revealed to the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). It's historical wrong to say that Islamic Shari'ah laws were authored by the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) - as he was an unlettered person.

What was revealed in Holy Qur'an and practiced by the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) during his life-time - make the ground rule for any future addition or subtraction in the Prophetic Shari'ah laws to meet the prevailing Ummah's problems. In other words - Ijtehad is okey. Even Hazrat Umar (ra) made some changes - for example, he banned mutta (temporary marriage).However, any Ijtehad must be based on the concensus of independent reputed Islamic scholars - and not at the whim of the "official scholars", such as Al-Azar or Saudis.

Islamic Shari'ah, like Islamic message - is timeless. It's practicable right now as it was 1400 years ago. Currently, it's being practiced, though partially, in several Muslim countries, such as Sudan, Nigeria, and Iran.

 

[Vinod2070]

Sharia provide protection of rights for both muslims and non muslims ,problem is muslims are creating hindrence for non muslims by not practicing the islam .

Presently we need to focus on muslims so that their faith and IMAN(Phase1) increases to certain level so that we can establish conducive environment which is required for implementation shariah law(Phase2).

Phase 1 ,which is presently continued which is most difficult phase ,for which you need lot of effort to physically develop network all over the world.

Islam is gaining ground and spreading very fast in Europe,America and Russia,reason is material development failed to provide the spiritual needs of humanity ,that is why suicidols graph is very much high in developed countries,peace of mind you can only get through direct link with God.

Wow, instead of looking at the issues in your immediate neighborhood, you are happy that "Islam is gaining ground and spreading very fast in Europe,America and Russia"! You are not the only one in this kind of thinking though.

What do you mean by "very fast"? What are the factors for this growth? Is it just the higher birth rate among Muslims (due to lack of education and their being at the bottom of the social ladder) and immigration of Muslims? What is the % of conversions in this growth? What kind of people are converting? What about the social conditions of Muslims in the West? Why is the crime rate so high among European Muslims (including rapes, drug abuse, terror)? Are they presenting a good image of their religion or that does not matter to the likes of you as long as they can increase their numbers!

Just think about these issues and share these facts.

Do you really think Muslims have more peace of mind? Try to honestly answer this question, if you can.

 

[waraich66]

Wow, instead of looking at the issues in your immediate neighborhood, you are happy that "Islam is gaining ground and spreading very fast in Europe,America and Russia"! You are not the only one in this kind of thinking though.

What do you mean by "very fast"? What are the factors for this growth? Is it just the higher birth rate among Muslims (due to lack of education and their being at the bottom of the social ladder) and immigration of Muslims? What is the % of conversions in this growth? What kind of people are converting? What about the social conditions of Muslims in the West? Why is the crime rate so high among European Muslims (including rapes, drug abuse, terror)? Are they presenting a good image of their religion or that does not matter to the likes of you as long as they can increase their numbers!

Just think about these issues and share these facts.

Do you really think Muslims have more peace of mind? Try to honestly answer this question, if you can.

First thing which muslims and non muslims should understand that islam can not be understood just by learning only ,main emphesis is on practice of islam and implementation in 24 hour life by copying our Prophet Muhammad PBUH life style.

You can confirm through different sources that islam is fastest spreading religion in Europe and America and Asia.

Your information is wrong that muslim population in europe and america involved in crimes.

Islam is only religion provide complete protection from major risks (deceases,natural disasters,bloodshed,wars,poverty etc) and peace of mind .

What ever we are observing in present islamic countries is due to non compliance of principles of islam.Muslims themselves are responsibile what ever going on in kashmir,Afghanistan,iraq,palestine because of non compliance of islam and sharia.

 

[Vinod2070]

First thing which muslims and non muslims should understand that islam can not be understood just by learning only ,main emphesis is on practice of islam and implementation in 24 hour life by copying our Prophet Muhammad PBUH life style.

This should be true for all religions and ideologies, not just Islam.

But you claimed to know Hinduism better than practicing Hindus just because your forefathers converted from that religion after defeat at the hands of "vidharmis"!

Several things about a religion or any ideology manifest themselves from the behavior of the followers.

You can confirm through different sources that islam is fastest spreading religion in Europe and America and Asia.

I asked some specific questions about that growth. You have avoided them as usual. May be I can say that Afghans are the fastest spreading community in Pakistan (because of higher birth rate due to lower education and social standards and immigration). How does it make any difference?

Your information is wrong that muslim population in europe and america involved in crimes.

In Europe it is 100% correct. Check out the statistics for UK, France, Spain, Sweden, Belgium... I can go on. They are indulging in some of the most heinous crimes much disproportionate to the population share. Just google the facts.

Islam is only religion provide complete protection from major risks (deceases,natural disasters,bloodshed,wars,poverty etc) and peace of mind .

I asked you, "Do you really think Muslims have more peace of mind". You have gone into general homilies again. If you think the answer is yes, let's get into statistics and proof.

I don't think Muslims are suffering less than others (possibly more) from all the issues that you talked of but I know your answer already. "Non-compliance". The truth is, there is no community that is more compliant and more conscious of their religion than Muslims!

What ever we are observing in present islamic countries is due to non compliance of principles of islam.Muslims themselves are responsibile what ever going on in kashmir,Afghanistan,iraq,palestine because of non compliance of islam and sharia.

We have seen compliance of Sharia in Taliban rule, Saudi, Nigeria and Sudan and frankly the results are not encouraging!

But then you will likely say that even that was "Non-compliance"!

 

[DarkStar]

I'm not getting into the debate here, but I'm asking you to please stope using offensive remarks such as vidharmi. Consider this a warning.

 

[Vinod2070]

I'm not getting into the debate here, but I'm asking you to please stope using offensive remarks such as vidharmi. Consider this a warning.

To clarify, "Vidharmi" is a Sanskrit term used for non-followers of the "Dharma". Probably like "kaafir". It is not offensive at all in any sense of the term.