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Shanghai sits top of the world in all catagories of PISA 2009 assessment in 2009

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I would like to remind everyone that we are discussing the Shanghai 2009 PISA test results. It's getting late and I'm done for today.

Anyway, no hard feelings guys. However, I would appreciate it if some of you toned down the anti-China propaganda. Thank you.
 
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Yeah I got a distinctly Fobish feel off of him. Though it was more from the fact, he kept inserting odd out of place American cultural references in his posts. Also the way he breaks up sentences is something I see a lot in posts here.




Awfully proud of your random references aren't you? And spunk? Who under the age of 70 uses the word spunk?

err, Americans do all the time? LOL. what, are picking on my verbiage now? is it come to this? :D
 
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err, Americans do all the time? LOL. what, are picking on my verbiage now? is it come to this? :D

Go on, tell me more about what Americans do and if you're looking for tips, remember to nod your head and not wobble.
 
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Go on, tell me more about what Americans do and if you're looking for tips, remember to nod your head and not wobble.

Was that some kind of racists comment about the Indian part of my heritage. I told you and now proved you guys are racists. See they take you out of china but they can't take that racists element out of you , eh?

However, rest assured- I won't make those racists innuendos associated with being of Chinese heritage- not my upbringing. I'm just happy that I proved here that you guys are racists and have you to thank for showing it to all here.
 
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However, rest assured- I won't make those racists innuendos associated with being of Chinese heritage- not my upbringing. I'm just happy that I proved here that you guys are racists and have you to thank for showing it to all here.

Before you continue to irresponsibly and groundlessly accuse Chinese of being racists, you should read the following news. I believe that you have mistakenly confused Indian racism and falsely projected it onto Chinese. We do not appreciate that.

Runaway gymnastics coach alleges racism, discrimination - The Times of India
"Times of India - Nov 14, 2010
Russian-born American Chertkov also alleged that Indian officials had a "racist" bias in stopping him from taking part in the march past. ..."

www.outlookindia.com | 'India Is Racist, And Happy About It'
"'India Is Racist, And Happy About It'
A Black American's first-hand experience of footpath India: no one even wants to change

Diepiriye Kuku"

"Chiman Rai is accused of hiring a hitman to kill his [black] daughter-in-law"

Let's tackle racism in India before pointing fingers at others | Indian Liberals

"This nauseates me to say the least. There’s nothing more shameful than we Indians, the most racist people on the planet, taking offence at some racial slur on a TV show far away from our shores. This incident reminded me of a post I had written last year during the height of the “racist-attacks-in-Australia” incidents and I am duly reproducing them below. Please note that although some of the quoted incidents are dated, the crux of my argument remains the same.

Retrieved from the old post

There has been a lot of anguish and anger in India with respect to the racist attacks on its nationals in Australia. Indian newspapers are full of the horror stories from Australia and apparently one of the victims has urged Indian students not to go to Australia because “there’s no life there!”

There’s no life in Australia? It comes from the same person who perhaps not too long ago was thinking of settling down in that country for whatever reasons beyond me but definitely not because Australia “didn’t have a life”! And it took only a freak knife crime for him to change his opinion so drastically!!

Now I don’t mean to be insensitive here. I completely understand his present state of mind and the resultant outrage. But is it decent to judge the entire population of that continent by a few out-of-bounds teenagers? I’ve been living here in England and not for a minute would disregard the possibility of being a victim of such a crime. Yet, in my brief stay here, I have come across so many welcoming Englishmen and women that one such relatively unlikely event would not change my opinion about the entire country!

I am aware that I might appear to some chauvinistic readers as sympathising with the Australians. Hence, I must clarify that I am not. As the Australian ambassador to India himself accepted, racist elements exist in Australia and that the racist angle to these attacks should not be discounted. And I do condemn all racist behaviour anywhere on this planet.

And therefore, my question here is this. Do Indians really have any right to cry foul over racism, given their own racist mentality? I would like to remind my Indian friends of those several attacks on and resulting deaths of foreigners travelling to India. How many times have you seen any protest by Indians against such crimes in their own country?

In fact, come to think of it, we Indians are the most racist, casteist, xenophobic and hypocrite people in the world (they are also extremely sexiest, to an extent of being misogynist {one of the reasons why sex determination during pregnancy is still illegal in the country!} and homophobic but I could talk about it in a separate blog). Nowhere on this planet would you be discriminated against in your own country on racist grounds than in India. Those northerners who don’t agree with me should live in the south for a while and vice versa. I lived in Chennai for nearly two years and it was there that I realised for the first time that I was an ‘Aryan’ and not ‘Dravid’. It is not secret that political parties in India not only exist but also thrive on these racial and caste divides.

Xenophobia takes on an altogether different meaning in India. You don’t have to travel from a different country to be a foreigner in India. You could easily get discriminated against or even bashed up if you travel a few hundred kilometres outside your home state. Those Indians who cringe at the ‘****’ slurs thrown at them in the western countries should ask themselves how many times have they themselves referred to their fellow countrymen as ‘lungi’, ‘bhaiyya’, ‘ghati’ or ‘baniya’ and to foreigners as ‘goras’ or ‘kallus’!

And that’s why I think that Indians are the most hypocrites as well. And I’ll tell you why. In a very popular “patriotic” Indian movie, aptly titled ‘Chak de India’, the coach of the Indian women’s hockey team that travels to Australia for the world cup proudly points out a ‘gora’ (a white person) hoisting the Indian flag. And that was supposed to be “patriotic”! If that is not xenophobic and racist, then I wonder what is!

Now consider in that context Amitabh Bacchan, the legendary Indian actor, rejecting an honorary degree offered to him by an Australian university in light of these racist attacks against Indians. Why did he? What was the university’s fault? Did the university in any way demonstrate its subscription to such racist ideology? Were the attackers students or employees of that university? The way I look at it, the university’s only fault was that it was situated in Australia!

By allowing ‘Chak de India’ to be released, the Indian movie industry, of which Mr. Bacchan is an icon, actually demonstrated its acceptance of the racist remarks and hence could be considered more felonious than the Australian university. The question that begs to be answered therefore is why didn’t Mr. Bacchan reject all the awards conferred upon him by the industry that allowed those racist remarks in ‘Chak de India’? Why hasn’t he ever publicly or even privately (although I wouldn’t know if he did) denounced, let alone criticised, the racial and xenophobic violence in India? I know that the chauvinist readers would be quick to point out that he did denounce the violence on north Indians in Maharashtra but they know as much as I do that he did so only because he himself is a northerner.

The reason is quite clear, at least to me. Hypocrisy comes so naturally to most Indians that they don’t even realise it on many occasions.

I can safely assume that Mr. Bacchan didn’t see the ‘gora’ remark in ‘Chak de…’ as racist (I would be surprised if most Indians did!). That was “patriotism” for most of them and I have no doubts in my mind that Mr. Bacchan was genuinely trying to demonstrate his “patriotism” (once again!) by rejecting the university’s offer.

So in a nutshell, if you ever see a racist, xenophobic Indian, he’s simply ”patriotic” but don’t you try to be patriotic in front of an Indian because that would immediately be considered as “racist” behaviour!

So here’s my suggestion to all those Indians who are offended by racist activities against them all over the world – instead of demanding the “whites” and “blacks” to treat you with respect, how about you treating each other with respect first? How about rejecting violence against Biharis in Maharashtra first before demanding non-violence against Indians in Australia? How about treating northerners in south and vice versa equally and fairly before demanding equality for yourself in Britain?

Because believe me or not, you are more likely to be treated fairly and respectfully outside your country than you are within your national boundaries."
 
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hopefully not all of our bright youngsters will be lured to the US. I am pretty sure I am going back to Shanghai after I finish medical school here in Canada!:china:

I wouldn't recommend it! I'm attending med school in the states right now, and with the amount they pay here vs. in China, I think I'll just stay here. If you really wanna help China, you could always gather some experience first and then go back, they'll have need people like us especially in hospitals designed to care for foreigners. You can also start your own clinic or run your own program or whatnot, if that's what you like :D
 
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How many Americans can't tell the difference between "your" and "you're"? "We" needs to be capitalized. He is unaware of the possessive form (e.g. workers' rights). There are two "run on" sentences.

My verdict: I doubt he's American at all. In any case, I'll give him a "D-" for English skills. There are at least six errors in only four sentences. I am leaning towards seven errors. There should be a comma before "but."

Oh you'd be surprised.... D- is probably what I'd give to the average American for their English skills.
 
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Are you sure that's a rational decision? Many of us thought that we would go back, but we never did.

Life is more comfortable here and the competition is weak. It is not that hard to outperform academically in the West. In Shanghai, I shudder at the thought.
There are several high qualitied hospital in Shanghai that's dedicated to foreigners. They pay about the same wage as hospitals in Canada does. So you don't have to risk your career by taking in bribes ( whereas most Chinese doctors take in bribes from patients because the hospital does not pay them high enough for the education they went through). :china:
 
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I wouldn't recommend it! I'm attending med school in the states right now, and with the amount they pay here vs. in China, I think I'll just stay here. If you really wanna help China, you could always gather some experience first and then go back, they'll have need people like us especially in hospitals designed to care for foreigners. You can also start your own clinic or run your own program or whatnot, if that's what you like :D

That's what I meant, I will finish internship plus 2-3 years in a hospital here in Canada. Then I will go back.
 
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High Test Scores, but China Education Flawed
High Test Rankings Mask Underlying Problems


By SHERISSE PHAM, Dec. 9, 2010

Chinese students made international headlines this week when Shanghai high school kids outscored their counterparts on PISA, an international standardized test. China came out on top and the U.S. was buried somewhere in the middle -- but it was no surprise to education experts or even to people familiar with China's progress as a global presence.

"The entire system is geared toward that one goal -- taking [a] test," said Yasheng Huang, a professor at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

It would be the equivalent of American students spending four or five years preparing for the GRE or SAT, he said. So when it comes to exams, Chinese students are stellar performers. But when it comes to other barometers of success, they fall short.

"In terms of imaginative talking, coming up with good ideas, taking risks, those are actually very weak," said Huang.

Such weaknesses are closely linked to an education system that effectively shortchanges Chinese students.


"When you spend all your time as a student at school going after high scores, you lose opportunity to develop anything else," said Yong Zhao, an education professor at Michigan State University.

Zhao said the Chinese system spends too much time focused on instruction, and not enough on education. Instruction, he explained, is imparting knowledge. Education is something entirely different.

China's Standardized High School Test is 'Miserable'

From a very young age, China breeds a test-oriented educational environment.

In junior high, they write the zhongkao -- "middle test" -- to get placed in a good high school.

In high school, the stakes are higher with the gaokao -- "high test."

The final prize is entrance to a coveted college, which could lead to a leg up in the competitive job market, which could lead to a well-paid job, which in turn could lead to a happy and prosperous life. Failure or low scores on the test send many students back to high school for one more year of gaokao preparation.

The two- to three-day exam is nothing short of an obsession for parents. And it's nothing short of miserable for students.

"I scare my children," Zhao said. "I tell them if they don't take the trash out I'll send them to China to take the gaokao."

Jokes aside, many Chinese parents are sending their children in the opposite direction. The Institute of International Education found that the number of Chinese students coming to the U.S for undergraduate studies increased by more than 50 percent last year.

Peggy Blumenthal, executive vice president of the Institute of International Education, believes the possibility for a better educational experience lures such students away from China's education system.

"If you are spending all your time drilling what the answers are for your test, does that prepare you for the kind of innovative self-reliant, challenge-the-status-quo kind of thinking that is rewarded at the college level ... in the United States?" asked Blumenthal.

Beyond the classroom, the obsession with test-taking leaves many Chinese graduates ill-prepared for the job market. A McKinsey study found that 44 percent of executives in Chinese companies reported that insufficient talent limited their global ambitions. Multinationals also find the labor pool lacking.

Meanwhile, Chinese colleges graduated nearly 6 million students in 2008.

After chasing test scores for their entire lives, graduates of China's education system face another grim reality: According to the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, the average college graduate earns just 300 yuan -- roughly $45 -- more than average migrant worker.

As reported in the Beijing Times, the study found that monthly salaries for college graduates have been at a plateau of about 1,500 yuan since 2003. Meanwhile, wages for migrant workers rose from an average of 700 yuan to 1,200 yuan over roughly the same period.

China Scoring High on Tests Was Big News 20 Years Ago

Still, there are some experts who maintain that, while flawed, the Chinese education system has its strengths.

Shijing Xu, an education professor with the University of Windsor in Toronto studying the interaction between schools in China and Canada, said Chinese students get a better foundation in all subject areas at a young age.

Specialized subject teachers -- one for math, one for science, one for language, and so on -- are present from the very beginning in Chinese schools.

In the U.S., most public schools have one teacher that teaches all subjects until grades three or four. Xu, like all the experts ABC News spoke with, said that the advantage in U.S. is that they encourage and foster creativity and initiative.

"If we really can combine the two together, we really would provide a better education for children on both sides," said Xu.

Change in China, Xu added, will not come overnight. With a population of 1.3 billion, it is difficult to develop a fair system that is not centered on standardized tests.

Yasheng Huang of M.I.T. said news that China came out on top in PISA is a far cry from a "Sputnik" moment, as Secretary of Education Arne Duncan called it.

Duncan's label made Huang think of another news maker out of China. When China sent its first astronaut into space in 2003, it prompted Jay Leno to joke that this would be big news ... if it was 1962. The same, said Huang, holds true for Chinese students outperforming international students on the standardized PISA test.

"Yes, this would be big news for China," Huang said, "if it were 1981."

High Test Rankings Mask China Education System's Underlying Problems - ABC News
 
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imaginative thinking - agreed, but americans aren't much better. imaginative thinking is useful only when you have the knowledge to make it work.

coming up with good ideas - you can't come up with a good idea if you can't add or subtract.

taking risks - american students take risks with drugs all the time, we'd rather not have that.

i also don't think education in the US rewards creativity at the college level. how much creative thinking is there in linear algebra or physical chemistry? the answer is either right or wrong, you can't be "sort of right with a nice analysis". as for the problem solving type of critical thinking, we have that in excess.
 
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