Shaheen III | News & Discussions.

[Dillinger]

Second is incorrect, the first is correct. But at the same time the professional jealousy bit is quite true as well.

Strap on inertial guidance system? When the CSS-6 was procured the guidance would have come with it. What nitwit would jeopardize the reliability of a strategic weapon due to a rivalry, wouldn't the generals skin him alive?

 

[SQ8]

Strap on inertial guidance system? When the CSS-6 was procured the guidance would have come with it. What nitwit would jeopardize the reliability of a strategic weapon due to a rivalry, wouldn't the generals skin him alive?

The Nodong came with a very simple guidance system, which replaced with a strap on system that used the same wiring and controls for the Gimbals and stuff. The Shaheen had its guidance system designed anew with help from various sources abroad( similar sources were also used by India and there was more than one instance where the two rival delegations found themselves in the same living room of particular contacts in Dubai waiting to procure knowledge and information).

Many would, since a strategic weapon contract is worth millions of dollars.. and you give too much credit to the "patriotism" of Generals involved in such programs. After all, if the US can have lobbyists who coax generals into preferring a system in return for later perks..why cant the same or worse be here?

 

[Dillinger]

The Nodong came with a very simple guidance system, which replaced with a strap on system that used the same wiring and controls for the Gimbals and stuff. The Shaheen had its guidance system designed anew with help from various sources abroad( similar sources were also used by India and there was more than one instance where the two rival delegations found themselves in the same living room of particular contacts in Dubai waiting to procure knowledge and information).

Many would, since a strategic weapon contract is worth millions of dollars.. and you give too much credit to the "patriotism" of Generals involved in such programs. After all, if the US can have lobbyists who coax generals into preferring a system in return for later perks..why cant the same or worse be here?

HOW is that possible. For example all our missiles have been made by the same group of labs together- there are no competitors. Surely its the same in Pakistan? You folks have multiple labs/agencies working on parallel projects and competing with each other?

So ummm..where do you think our know-how for the RLG came from?

 

[SQ8]

HOW is that possible. For example all our missiles have been made by the same group of labs together- there are no competitors. Surely its the same in Pakistan? You folks have multiple labs/agencies working on parallel projects and competing with each other?

So ummm..where do you think our know-how for the RLG came from?

Two main competitors in A.Q Khan Labs and in PAEC(now all under the umbrella of NDC). A read up on the history of Pakistan's nuclear and missile program would be nice.. think I wrote about it before here somewhere(I can never find my old posts).

It depends on who spoke to who. Many cite Russia as the sole and only source for India's understanding of weapons tech but forget that even with all the hugs and kisses the Russians(till very recently) would stick to handing out Monkey Models to India for its military. Moreover, to ensure a more diverse supplier base there was a lot of running around done in arms market to make contacts and dealings. After all, as third world nations looking to survive in this dog eat dog world..anything goes.

 

[Dillinger]

Two main competitors in A.Q Khan Labs and in PAEC(now all under the umbrella of NDC). A read up on the history of Pakistan's nuclear and missile program would be nice.. think I wrote about it before here somewhere(I can never find my old posts).

It depends on who spoke to who. Many cite Russia as the sole and only source for India's understanding of weapons tech but forget that even with all the hugs and kisses the Russians(till very recently) would stick to handing out Monkey Models to India for its military. Moreover, to ensure a more diverse supplier base there was a lot of running around done in arms market to make contacts and dealings. After all, as third world nations looking to survive in this dog eat dog world..anything goes.

France perhaps? They seemed to have provided all the LRG/RLGs for the ships and fighters till date. It could have been reverse engineering but something tells me that would hack off France quite a bit, or perhaps they are supplying certain components, the latter seems likely. The question arose in my mind since only now- this year- have I seen a FOG system being tested and used by the DRDO. Which as you pointed out happens to be a level below the RLG in terms of complexity.

One can never find their old posts. Btw I had asked you a question on the PDF management thread.

 

[SQ8]

France perhaps? They seemed to have provided all the LRG/RLGs for the ships and fighters till date. It could have been reverse engineering but something tells me that would hack off France quite a bit, or perhaps they are supplying certain components, the latter seems likely. The question arose in my mind since only now- this year- have I seen a FOG system being tested and used by the DRDO. Which as you pointed out happens to be a level below the RLG in terms of complexity.

One can never find their old posts. Btw I had asked you a question on the PDF management thread.

They may be supplying certain components lower than what they use, or perhaps those that they can sell prints off without too many flags being raised. Take certain flight-computers for early Pakistani UAV's that came straight from IAI and Elbit. Complete with circuit diagrams...but these were models that the Israelis were no longer using or in second line systems. They knew it would get out anyway, so why not make a buck or two out of it.

 

[Dillinger]

They may be supplying certain components lower than what they use, or perhaps those that they can sell prints off without too many flags being raised. Take certain flight-computers for early Pakistani UAV's that came straight from IAI and Elbit. Complete with circuit diagrams...but these were models that the Israelis were no longer using or in second line systems. They knew it would get out anyway, so why not make a buck or two out of it.

Well a certain medium range test article that ran first with the RLG showed phenomenal accuracy- so whoever it is gave us the good stuff- well either that or someone's lying. That having been said, my bet is France or maybe JUST MAYBE Unkil decided to butt in. You agree right, if you're just coming out with the FOG on your own then there is no chance you leapfrogged onto a LRG two years before said FOG came out?

 

[SQ8]

Well a certain medium range test article that ran first with the RLG showed phenomenal accuracy- so whoever it is gave us the good stuff- well either that or someone's lying. That having been said, my bet is France or maybe JUST MAYBE Unkil decided to butt in. You agree right, if you're just coming out with the FOG on your own then there is no chance you leapfrogged onto a LRG two years before said FOG came out?

There may be other reasons. Either the system that allows the RLG to be super accurate was not that easy to replicate at home which is why the FOG was developed in-house to "replace" the RLG at a later stage as an indigenous application.
Or

There were parallel teams with their own little rivalries and one simply leapfrogged the other by getting help from outside and coming up with the RLG. All part of R&D internal politics and friendly competition.

 

[Dillinger]

There may be other reasons. Either the system that allows the RLG to be super accurate was not that easy to replicate at home which is why the FOG was developed in-house to "replace" the RLG at a later stage as an indigenous application.
Or

There were parallel teams with their own little rivalries and one simply leapfrogged the other by getting help from outside and coming up with the RLG. All part of R&D internal politics and friendly competition.

Such is life. Although still no answer to my question- might as well ask it here and risk the repudiation that might result from said question- with the management change and the Jr. TT- Can I still threaten my BDian pals with genocide? This is a question that has been haunting me and Hype.
@Oscar on the bit about replicating the specific components- I doubt that we even even trying- that would tick off whoever allowed us access in the first place and IF we didn't succeed then it would be a loss overall.

 

[SQ8]

Such is life. Although still no answer to my question- might as well ask it here and risk the repudiation that might result from said question- with the management change and the Jr. TT- Can I still threaten my BDian pals with genocide? This is a question that has been haunting me and Hype.

I've already posted as to where lines must be drawn at light banter,flaming and derailment.

Another interesting that should be looked at regarding RLG(Ring Laser Gyro..for those who arent following the discussion) and FOG(Fibre Optic Gyro) is price. Technically FOGs are a newer invention as compared to the RLG and cheaper..which is why they are better suited for applications such as a low cost cruise missile or on ships.

 

[Dillinger]

I've already posted as to where lines must be drawn at light banter,flaming and derailment.

Another interesting that should be looked at regarding RLG(Ring Laser Gyro..for those who arent following the discussion) and FOG(Fibre Optic Gyro) is price. Technically FOGs are a newer invention as compared to the RLG and cheaper..which is why they are better suited for applications such as a low cost cruise missile or on ships.

That would make sense. SRBM/MRBMs and LRCMs with a range not exceeding 1200-2000km would do just as well with FOGs, in fact most ships would get along fine too. We will be using the one we've developed on the new PG kit among other things to start with. Ergo my question that day (after which I did the digging wrt the LRGs and my resultant doubts) about FOGs being economically more viable, since a PGM kit is going to be mass produced- maybe in the thousands. So I think what you've stated might just be the most apt reason.

 

[Hyperion]

@Oscar @Dillinger, LRG's/FOG's are not prohibitively expensive in the first place. Yes, if you include the R&D cost into the equation, then maybe, however, if you neglect those costs (in case "imported") then, it's nothing more than a few thousand dollars, that too perhaps. Besides, how many would you need for the ICBM's (let's say going for the LRG's)? 50 - 100 - 200 - 300 - 400 - 500, sure, but not 10,000!


P.S. I always knew RLG's as LRG's.... Laser Ring Gyro's.... when did the naming change???

 

[Mughal-Prince]

hahahahh you still think Al-qaeda and OBL is a real story ? ? ? they say we kill OBL where is the body ? he was no.1 terrorist and no seal took a pic to confirm his identity ? and there was Dna test then where are they ?? did you ever see the evidence they provide to back that they really kill OBL in pak ..... its worse than a fantasy story which a pathan and sadar father tells his son before sleep .... !!
they are here to DE-nuclearize pak , you so called COAS says that long time ago he was a former ISI director we can give a little credibility to his statement no ?

for your So CAlled superpower , please kindly google Vietnam war , i am sure you will have your answers ....we can not fight with US or any other country , because we now a divided nation with full of idiots fighting for , islam, cast , shia&sunni , a small civil war is already started within 3 states of pak , Sind ( look at karachi ) , KPK ( peshawar and FATA ) and of course Baluchistan, (specially thanks to our impotent politician who know RAW is behind but never dare to speak ) ...

shaheen III , gauri III and TIPU ICBM are just rumors nothing more so wash your face with water and wake up from this sweet dream

You are collecting sympathy with writing a few things in favour then feeding us what you like ... False flagger ...

 

[farhan_9909]

let suppose the project is ON or is to get The funds

Under how much can this Shaheen III with 4500km be completed?will it cost in excess of a billion dollars?

Is there really a variant of Shaheen II as Shaheen IIA-S coming up with MIRV?

 

[rockstar08]

You are collecting sympathy with writing a few things in favour then feeding us what you like ... False flagger ...

i am not here to tell you good but false news , if you expect this from me , so i am sorry sir .... but if anything i mentioned is wrong kindly explain , and please now dont tell me this that i am an indian who is trolling or etc ..